One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Dump his sorry ass

OP here. I can't just walk away from love. I'm assuming there is no compromise though. I understand protecting a family business, but there isn't one. I get it's his own but if I'm still helping financially, and for the up keep up the house, and working, and raising kids, then it should account for something. I'm beyond torn

Don't not agree to this. Visit an attorney. Maybe the compromise can be a pre nup that is not so heavily in his favor.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

[Anonymous]

I disagree with the "red flag" issue. Most men who have been divorced once have had that conversation... Not the prenup one, but the one where their fiancé says, "I don't understand why women take everything when things don't work out. We should just go our separate ways, keeping what was ours before the marriage."

Yeah. Sounds sincere. But through the divorce, the women feel entitled and then want half of everything. Half of marital AND half of what was never theirs to begin with (but they'll argue that all your stuff prior to marriage became 1/2 theirs after marriage).

A woman who knows you're marrying a second time would accept a prenup. If she doesn't or makes you feel guilty about it, she's hoping to fool you like the first woman who promised to "not be like all the other women."

[Anonymous]

Prenup == I don't trust the evil version of you.

I'm ok with that.

[Anonymous]

"OP here. I can't just walk away from love."

Of course you can. You're being stupid. Stop being stupid.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

+1000. There's nothing wrong with a prenup. Makes sense for some couples. There's everything wrong with the way he's approaching this prenup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Then it sounds like you're disputing the terms of the agreement, but that you each have an idea for an arrangement in mind.

Check with a lawyer and see what you're likely to get according to the norms and rules in your area. He may not have a choice about certain things (i.e. businesses created during the marriage, the conditions under which alimony is considered by the Court, etc.).

I divorced a man who once refused to split the family groceries one day because (as he pointed things out at the cashier's station) "I don't drink that, or that..." In their lifetimes, my children have received solely two boxes of diapers and two onesies (from a trip he took to NY). No holiday gifts because, "I don't celebrate holidays." This attitude will agonize with the introduction of children into this lopsided arrangement.

So, my two cents: RUN!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

+1000.

If you don't trust and respect the person you are marrying, why on earth are you marrying them? If you don't trust and respect your partner, don't marry them, prenup or not prenup! Figure out if you trust and respect them, first. And, as plenty of people have been saying, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with a prenup in general but there is plenty wrong with the prenup OP's fiance is proposing. The devil is in the details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

All these marriages were based on trust and respect to start with and then it went downhill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

You're the moron proposing that you marry someone you don't yet trust and respect. Which I'm guessing some of the other failed marriages did too. You don't define success through looking at failure, and you're the last person I would ever take relationship advice from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But honestly the biggest thing is that the terms of the prenup suggest he doesn't trust her... At all. Why would he marry her if that is the case? This relationship sounds like a massive trainwreck.

Exactly. To me the red flag is not that he wants a prenup, but the exact, very harsh, terms and the fact that he doesn't seem to want her to get her own lawyer and/or to have equal bargaining power. To me, a prenup is simply another contract and while it may be an OK business practice to browbeat a weaker party into a disadvantageous business contract (not saying it's OK, but it is routine), to do so with someone you supposedly love is another thing altogether.

And no, I am not some sort of 'men should support women blah blah' type. I am a DW who makes more than my DH due to our respective career choices (and knew that was always going to be the case before we got married). I am all for women being economically independent and having their own money/career. To me, the OP's issue is about trust and respect, something her future spouse shows a significant lack of.

Trust and respect is something that is earned and those who think that it is implicit when one gets married are deluding themselves. The number of marriages that fall apart is evidence of trust and respect being transient in many cases.

No one in a marriage has an automatic right to the other partner's assets and income. The only exception is a SAHM where BOTH parties agree that it is in the interests of the children that the mother should stay at home for a period. If one party in a marriage makes substantially more than the other person, the one who makes the greater amount has a correspondingly greater say in how that money should be spent or divided. It does not matter if it is the wife who makes more or the husband who does so.

The presumption that everything needs to be divided equally is absurd if one person makes a lot more than the other.

Marriages are based on a presumption that it will likely work out but prudence dictates that measures should be taken to safeguard both parties in a manner that is commensurate with what each brings to the marriage.

The craven avarice of women arguing for a disproportionate share of the marital assets is the strongest argument for why pre-nups are vital in most marriages.

Well, there's your problem right there. Trust and respect should be earned BEFORE you get married. You're the idiot marrying people you don't trust or respect, so it makes sense you're all about the prenup.

What you describe is dating, not marriage. That's totally fine. That works for a lot of people. But it's not marriage. It's formalized dating.

You are a total moron. All you need to look is to look at this relationship forum to witness the number of marriages that have fallen apart or are in trouble. And if you think this forum is not representative of what is happening in society as a whole then look at the statistics for the number of marriages that end in divorce.

Being delusional is one thing ...... to rationalize those delusions is asinine.

All these marriages were based on trust and respect to start with and then it went downhill.

Yeah, right.