Would you leave your wife if....

[Anonymous]

This is what confuses me about DCUM. Here on this thread there's numerous comments urging the men in sexless marriages with women who sound like shrews to just have quiet affairs. Yet, in the "should I confront my spouse's EA partner?" thread, there's people saying even in those situations, affairs aren't right and aren't okay and a bad marriage doesn't make people cheat, blah blah blah. Which is it? Why is DCUM so virulently opposed to affairs in some threads and not in others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think at some point, you stop being a victim and become a volunteer. All that time you spend in the gym, getting into the "best shape of your life", just find a quiet affair partner.

The feigned helplessness is boring and an illusion. Your own happiness is, and has always been, within your own reach.

I dont recommend an affair. That's a cheap and dirty way out. Just bite the bullet and make the necessary arrangements for a divorce while still remaining active in your children's lives. BTW--Physical custody is not a given to the mother any more. Again, you should not be on an anonymous forum but in an attorney's office. Preferably, a female baracuda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at some point, you stop being a victim and become a volunteer. All that time you spend in the gym, getting into the "best shape of your life", just find a quiet affair partner.

The feigned helplessness is boring and an illusion. Your own happiness is, and has always been, within your own reach.

I dont recommend an affair. That's a cheap and dirty way out. Just bite the bullet and make the necessary arrangements for a divorce while still remaining active in your children's lives. BTW--Physical custody is not a given to the mother any more. Again, you should not be on an anonymous forum but in an attorney's office. Preferably, a female baracuda.

Divorce is not preferable to an affair. An affair is better for you and for your kids. Living 50% of time with your kids is not enough for many people. Divorce is horrifically expensive and difficult. And your kids will be affected. But living a life of quiet desperation is also not necessary. If you can still have an affectionate, happy relationship with your spouse, then just have the quiet affair. Quiet NSA involvements. Your marriage will probably improve because you won't be chasing for intimacy anymore and so can appreciate it when it is offered. It will ease pressure in the relationship. Even if your spouse finds out, very few affairs actually end marriages. In fact, it will probably shock her into changing her ways or maybe into opening up the marriage. If not, you go back to the status quo. But what do you actually lose? There is this idea that having an affair and staying married is having your cake and eating it too. But it's not. Having intimacy when married, rather than celibacy, is SUPPOSED to be what a marriage looks like. It's not some special gift for greedy people. The affair just gets you to having your cake. It makes you equal to other marriages. Your spouse doesn't deserve fidelity and probably doesn't want it so stop wasting it on them.

[Anonymous]

cont

The passivity in these threads is basically equivalent to the verbal and physical abuse threads. People have accepted their lot and no matter how sick and unhappy it makes them, they made their wedding vows and they have the kids. You are going to one day wake up and realize that you have wasted most of the most precious gift we all have - TIME. You are going to grieve for the time you spent alone and miserable, martyring yourself.

Your marriage is not going to survive in the long run. That is the truth you need to accept. So you need to stop worrying about the promises you made because you are not going to make it "til death". That ship has sailed. The question is when, where and why your marriage will break down. I'd rather have a 20 year affair in a good marriage and leave when it was discovered than stay for 20 years as a dried out sexless husk in a horrible marriage and then leave when I can't take it anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman here. For the life of me I don't know how you can think that she loves you and feels bad and won't have sex for five years. As a human being, if you loved someone, wouldn't you want to make that person happy. We are talking FIVE FUCKNIG YEARS here. Not five days. That almost sounds inhuman to me.

Men do the same thing to their wives. But the difference is that you can get laid anytime you want, we can't. It is the one thing you have over us.

Oh really? Tell me that when my DH turns me down.

[Anonymous]

Woman here.

"Your marriage will probably improve because you won't be chasing for intimacy anymore and so can appreciate it when it is offered. It will ease pressure in the relationship. Even if your spouse finds out, very few affairs actually end marriages. In fact, it will probably shock her into changing her ways or maybe into opening up the marriage. If not, you go back to the status quo."

This is what happened to me. I stopped chasing H for intimacy. He did find out. He didn't leave me. He forced me to go to counselling, which revealed that I cheated not only because of lack of intimacy but because H did about 10% of the child raising and household management, even though I work longer hours and make more money. So H stepped up his game for a few months, then our relationship reverted to the status quo. So I found another partner and am having a quiet affair, much more circumspectly this time. I don't want a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman here. For the life of me I don't know how you can think that she loves you and feels bad and won't have sex for five years. As a human being, if you loved someone, wouldn't you want to make that person happy. We are talking FIVE FUCKNIG YEARS here. Not five days. That almost sounds inhuman to me.

Men do the same thing to their wives. But the difference is that you can get laid anytime you want, we can't. It is the one thing you have over us.

Not true at all. (I'm the pp you are quoting). Where do you get the notion that women can get laid any time we want? SOME women can, and SOME men can too. 90% of the time that's not true.

I think it actually is true for the most part. If my wife ever said, "Hey, I'm in the mood, lets go". I would be there in a flash. The opposite is never true. She could easily go into any bar and find a guy to take care of her in a second. I would probably strike out 9 times out of 10. Thats just the way it is.

[Anonymous]

PP, you just refuse to believe that there are attractive, undersexed wives out there. On vacation, I managed to get my DH to have sex with me 3 times in 5 days. The last night of vacation, I wanted a fourth time but he stayed up watching TV and then blamed it on the fact that I was asleep when he came to bed. He often uses TV to avoid sex.

[ThatSmileyFaceGuy]

Yes there are attractive undersexed wives. what the pp was trying to imply is that an attractive undersexed wife can go to any bar on a Friday night and wouldn't have to leave alone if she chose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what confuses me about DCUM. Here on this thread there's numerous comments urging the men in sexless marriages with women who sound like shrews to just have quiet affairs. Yet, in the "should I confront my spouse's EA partner?" thread, there's people saying even in those situations, affairs aren't right and aren't okay and a bad marriage doesn't make people cheat, blah blah blah. Which is it? Why is DCUM so virulently opposed to affairs in some threads and not in others?

because population of DCUM posters posting on one single thread does not equal population of DCUM posters posting on another thread. Obviously different thread titles attract different people. I'm an anti-affair in any situation person (divorce or tell your partner your seeking affection elsewhere) who has been following the EA thread, but I haven't opened this one until now.

[Anonymous]

your = you're

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:cont

The passivity in these threads is basically equivalent to the verbal and physical abuse threads. People have accepted their lot and no matter how sick and unhappy it makes them, they made their wedding vows and they have the kids. You are going to one day wake up and realize that you have wasted most of the most precious gift we all have - TIME. You are going to grieve for the time you spent alone and miserable, martyring yourself.

Your marriage is not going to survive in the long run. That is the truth you need to accept. So you need to stop worrying about the promises you made because you are not going to make it "til death". That ship has sailed. The question is when, where and why your marriage will break down. I'd rather have a 20 year affair in a good marriage and leave when it was discovered than stay for 20 years as a dried out sexless husk in a horrible marriage and then leave when I can't take it anymore.

Your two, consecutive posts are the truest, most real comments I have read on this board in a while. A very good woman friend of mine said to be that I only stay because I am concerned about the effect it would have on my kids and and whether there will be someone else out there for me. But I also think often about the wasted time, years I will never get back. For the right person, I would make a very good partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Woman here.

"Your marriage will probably improve because you won't be chasing for intimacy anymore and so can appreciate it when it is offered. It will ease pressure in the relationship. Even if your spouse finds out, very few affairs actually end marriages. In fact, it will probably shock her into changing her ways or maybe into opening up the marriage. If not, you go back to the status quo."

This is what happened to me. I stopped chasing H for intimacy. He did find out. He didn't leave me. He forced me to go to counselling, which revealed that I cheated not only because of lack of intimacy but because H did about 10% of the child raising and household management, even though I work longer hours and make more money. So H stepped up his game for a few months, then our relationship reverted to the status quo. So I found another partner and am having a quiet affair, much more circumspectly this time. I don't want a divorce.

OK, that's fucked up. How much of the child raising and household management have your affair partners done? It's one thing to get sex outside of a sexless marriage, but this is just being childish. You need a nanny hon, not a lover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:cont

The passivity in these threads is basically equivalent to the verbal and physical abuse threads. People have accepted their lot and no matter how sick and unhappy it makes them, they made their wedding vows and they have the kids. You are going to one day wake up and realize that you have wasted most of the most precious gift we all have - TIME. You are going to grieve for the time you spent alone and miserable, martyring yourself.

Your marriage is not going to survive in the long run. That is the truth you need to accept. So you need to stop worrying about the promises you made because you are not going to make it "til death". That ship has sailed. The question is when, where and why your marriage will break down. I'd rather have a 20 year affair in a good marriage and leave when it was discovered than stay for 20 years as a dried out sexless husk in a horrible marriage and then leave when I can't take it anymore.

Your two, consecutive posts are the truest, most real comments I have read on this board in a while. A very good woman friend of mine said to be that I only stay because I am concerned about the effect it would have on my kids and and whether there will be someone else out there for me. But I also think often about the wasted time, years I will never get back. For the right person, I would make a very good partner.

I haven't posted before, but I just wanted to tell you that you deserve to be happy. I'm not going to offer any advice on how to do that since I don't know your situation. You sound like a very resonable, loving person and I wish you the best. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been promised that image of perfect life, perfect marriage, etc. it rarely happens that way. Have you tried counseling? Asking why not? Etc.? I'm sorry you are in this, I am. I know it sucks. But no, I wouldn't give up daily contact with my kids for sex. At least not until they are much older.

Monk #1 again (and pp too -- not sock puppeting, just thinking in spurts here) --

Here's the thing. A lot of things can disrupt your sex life. Stress, kids, health issues. One thing that no one ever talks about is the degree to which cancer is a libido slayer.

As a spouse, you take a vow that includes "in sickness and in health." And so you just decide you're going to deal with celibacy during cancer, because that's the decent thing to do and sex in the context of everything else *really just isn't important.*

And eventually, the Gods smile on you and your spouse heals and recovers. But sometimes, that part of your life just doesn't come back. Even though you try, with the varying degrees of effort previously described, to reignite that spark. Some cancer treatments simply assasinate the cancer libido. So you, the healthy spouse, feel a number of conflicting emotions. They include: 1) Relief and joy that your wife is going to survive because you really do love her; and 2) Rejection, even though you know intellectually that it's really not her fault. The sinister thing is the longer you feel rejected, the less attracted to her you feel because at the end of the day, who really wants to grovel?

But still, every day you wake up to those two beaming faces of the creatures you and she made together. One is now 9, the other 7, and you love them so much it aches. You make their school lunches and their breakfasts before heading off to the career in which you used to have such huge ambitions can't hold a candle to your desire to leave the office at 5 so you can come home and help with homework and maybe if you're lucky play a game or two before bed. You live for the weekends, where you might as well be *dating* your children the way you plan the activities so carefully.

And then, after they're in bed and you are nursing your third beer while dw does whatever she's doing on the laptop, you just fight the sadness and the resentment. And for a minute you think "fuck it, I should just go upstairs and make it happen" and then you remember the last two times you tried that approach: the ambivalent "get it over with" attitude the first time and the cold shoulder the second. And you figure why bother and you fantasize for a minute about separating and getting an apartment in the city. And then you remember your bank balance. But more importantly you think of those girls for whom you live now. And so you look for porn On Demand and pray that DW stays the fuck upstairs for 10 minutes instead of coming down to your man cave to tell you the six new ways she wants to spend the money you earn.

This is my life. Fun times.

You shouldn't have to sacrifice forever. Your wife's cancer is over. Get to a medical specialist if it is a medical issue. Get to counseling if it is a counseling issue.

YOU DESERVE HAPPINESS. It's not a betrayal of your wife to want it. It is not wrong to say it.

But it sounds like your marriage is totally lacking in nonsexual intimacy too. THAT has to be fixed and if it is you might find that your sex life comes back. The way you describe parenting is sweet in some ways, but you have redirected the passion from your adult life to the kids and that isn't good for them. As they get older and start to move into the world of their peers you don't want to hold them back even unconsciously. If they are meeting even your social needs in the family you may be creating girls who never find boyfriends "live up" to the dizzying closeness with dear old Dad.

You have to work on your marriage so that there is a healthier balance in your family and your kids are not meeting adult needs, even with the best of intentions. Go to family therapy even, it might be a better place for you and your wife to talk about shifting your relationship and the family dynamics (often the kids are not present). Find someone who does family systems therapy. I'm sure that the girls were impacted by the cancer as well. Move everyone onto better footing with each other.

You can love your girls just as much, but in a healthier way if you fall in love with your wife again. And you will be teaching them what a happy, healthy family looks like - as someone who had to piece it together as an adult, it's a huge gift. Good luck!