Can someone explain the mentality of never being proactive or organized to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have your family do too much. When the most important thing for your kids is a happy marriage, you have your family do too much. Get rid of travel soccer. Begin there.

Love the family you have. Work within the blessings you have been given - not wishing people would magically change into someone else with different strengths and weaknesses.

Yes make life realllllly simple so your delinquent spouse can dumb everyone me down to his level.

No sports or ECs after school
4 shirts, 2 slacks, 1 pair shoes, 7 underwear
No toys or games
Piano at home for lessons.
Tutors come 3x a week
Housekeeper comes daily 3-6pm for rotational cleaning plus cooking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ADHD is literally poor executive functioning. This task would have taken multiple executive functions: planning, organization, making goals, task initiation, time management, flexibility to deal with you being gone, problem solving (actually he did that, just not how you would have), maybe self-restraint. It's everything he struggles with.

oh yeah it’s such a struggle to go to Target and buy a toy, and show up at the Trampoline park on time 🙄 this dude didn’t care - it’s not adhd.

I have ADHD and that's so ineffective. It's a waste of time, gas, and energy. Everybody knows that birthday parties come up when you have kids that age, so why not grab extra gifts when they are on sale in December or for Labor Day? It's much easier to shop your closet. It sounds like OP could better manage things too. Though if she wants to be frustrated it wasn't a Target gift, it's within her right.

Obviously this guy doesn’t plan far enough in advance to order on Amazon. And lol, no, these types of men wouldn’t be buying extra gifts on sale in january wtf.

But, OP didn't do that either. If she had, she could have tasked him with something else and gotten exactly the gift she wanted.

right. weaponized incompetence gets men like this what they want. now in addition to having to pack and get ready to take the other kid out of town for the sports event, OP will also have to order the birthday present and maybe even set up a carpool to ensure the kid even gets there. that’s the direction this story goes - down, down, down. by the end of my marriage my ex literally did zero.

Well some women also have chaotic households. If it’s that taxing to pick up 5 gifts for birthday gifts the next time you’re at Target, then you are tired and angry. It probably is best for OP to divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Maybe adhd should have disclosed that more and not had kids. Or not gotten married nor had kids.

At least the current kids will be on the lookout for this and avoid it in a partner.

I'm a DW and I did not know I had ADHD until I was in my 40s. I coped just fine until work, kids, and perimenopause made everything go off the rails.

Nonsense. Things can never get too difficult or overwhelming for anyone, ever. If you were more diligent, less lazy, and not deliberately weaponizing your incompetence, your poor children wouldn’t have to suffer the indignity of being five minutes late to the trampoline park and your husband wouldn’t be humiliated in front of all the other dads (with whom he is always secretly competing) because of the cash given to a strange child rather than an instagram worthy, carefully curated gift. You clearly just don’t care about your family.

I bet you aren’t even a navy seal - surgeon - astronaut, or even a lowly cave-diving anesthesiologist! Because literally anyone can do literally anything if they just work hard enough. There is absolutely no universe in which some people are more capable of some things than other people.

You lazy git.

/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Maybe adhd should have disclosed that more and not had kids. Or not gotten married nor had kids.

At least the current kids will be on the lookout for this and avoid it in a partner.

I'm a DW and I did not know I had ADHD until I was in my 40s. I coped just fine until work, kids, and perimenopause made everything go off the rails.

Nonsense. Things can never get too difficult or overwhelming for anyone, ever. If you were more diligent, less lazy, and not deliberately weaponizing your incompetence, your poor children wouldn’t have to suffer the indignity of being five minutes late to the trampoline park and your husband wouldn’t be humiliated in front of all the other dads (with whom he is always secretly competing) because of the cash given to a strange child rather than an instagram worthy, carefully curated gift. You clearly just don’t care about your family.

I bet you aren’t even a navy seal - surgeon - astronaut, or even a lowly cave-diving anesthesiologist! Because literally anyone can do literally anything if they just work hard enough. There is absolutely no universe in which some people are more capable of some things than other people.

You lazy git.

/s

Look. I am not winning any parent awards. I would go to Target on the way to the trampoline park and buy a lego set and a gift bag and I'd also be at least 15 minutes late (guess what so would like 5 other kids and their parents and no one would care). And I agree some people are just more capable and I don't compete with those people because I try to just be kind to myself and also I don't care as much about a lot of this stuff. I think the odds my kid will still be friends with these kids in 3-4 years are slim.

But they way you are talking just sounds like excuses for being a crap partner. Giving cash does suck -- it's a weird gift that will feel awkward for the birthday kid and his parents and your kid when it's opened (possibly in front of all the other kids). It also isn't necessary -- just be a little later and go get a gift. You don't need to plan in advance but you need to *try* a little.

It's also obvious to everyone that the issue is not this one incident but that OP's DH regularly just does not try and she picks up the slack and is exhausted. In the end this doesn't really have much to do with ADHD. It's totally fine to do less and to aim lower. It's okay to admit your limitations and live within them. What is not okay is simply giving up and abandoning your partner (who fyi has her own limitations and challenges) and then blaming your diagnosis. If you have kids with someone you are signing up for working at it. Not succeeding all the time but just putting in the effort. Asking for a bit of effort is not the same as expecting perfection and you know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it that everyone on DCUM has ADHD/ASD?

What % of Americans have ADHD? What about the rest of the world?

Roughly 4–8% of Americans have ADHD. And percentages in the rest of the world are similar. Many places don't recognize it yet so we don't have data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it that everyone on DCUM has ADHD/ASD?

They don’t. ADHD is really just that people were never taught executive functioning skills as children. Especially boys, who generally are held to much lower standards than girls and observed that their own fathers never did anything around the house.

Listen, you clearly have not read ANY research on ADHD. People with ADHD have brains that are actually structurally different. Study after study has shown that parenting has ZERO effect on the frontal lobe and executive functioning and absolutely does not cause ADHD. Just as a tip, please don't say this crap in public because it shows how ignorant you are. If you have a family member or close friend with ADHD I implore you to read Dr Russell Barkley's research or books because your ignorance is going to hurt people you love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Maybe adhd should have disclosed that more and not had kids. Or not gotten married nor had kids.

At least the current kids will be on the lookout for this and avoid it in a partner.

I'm a DW and I did not know I had ADHD until I was in my 40s. I coped just fine until work, kids, and perimenopause made everything go off the rails.

you don’t actually have adhd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ADHD is literally poor executive functioning. This task would have taken multiple executive functions: planning, organization, making goals, task initiation, time management, flexibility to deal with you being gone, problem solving (actually he did that, just not how you would have), maybe self-restraint. It's everything he struggles with.

oh yeah it’s such a struggle to go to Target and buy a toy, and show up at the Trampoline park on time 🙄 this dude didn’t care - it’s not adhd.

I have ADHD and that's so ineffective. It's a waste of time, gas, and energy. Everybody knows that birthday parties come up when you have kids that age, so why not grab extra gifts when they are on sale in December or for Labor Day? It's much easier to shop your closet. It sounds like OP could better manage things too. Though if she wants to be frustrated it wasn't a Target gift, it's within her right.

Obviously this guy doesn’t plan far enough in advance to order on Amazon. And lol, no, these types of men wouldn’t be buying extra gifts on sale in january wtf.

But, OP didn't do that either. If she had, she could have tasked him with something else and gotten exactly the gift she wanted.

right. weaponized incompetence gets men like this what they want. now in addition to having to pack and get ready to take the other kid out of town for the sports event, OP will also have to order the birthday present and maybe even set up a carpool to ensure the kid even gets there. that’s the direction this story goes - down, down, down. by the end of my marriage my ex literally did zero.

Well some women also have chaotic households. If it’s that taxing to pick up 5 gifts for birthday gifts the next time you’re at Target, then you are tired and angry. It probably is best for OP to divorce.

why doesn’t OP’s husband think ahead to pick up 5 gifts at Target on sale?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it that everyone on DCUM has ADHD/ASD?

They don’t. ADHD is really just that people were never taught executive functioning skills as children. Especially boys, who generally are held to much lower standards than girls and observed that their own fathers never did anything around the house.

Listen, you clearly have not read ANY research on ADHD. People with ADHD have brains that are actually structurally different. Study after study has shown that parenting has ZERO effect on the frontal lobe and executive functioning and absolutely does not cause ADHD. Just as a tip, please don't say this crap in public because it shows how ignorant you are. If you have a family member or close friend with ADHD I implore you to read Dr Russell Barkley's research or books because your ignorance is going to hurt people you love.

Adult ADHD is massively over diagnosed and everyone involved in psychiatry knows that. Russel Barkley takes money from Eli Lily, Takeda, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Maybe adhd should have disclosed that more and not had kids. Or not gotten married nor had kids.

At least the current kids will be on the lookout for this and avoid it in a partner.

I'm a DW and I did not know I had ADHD until I was in my 40s. I coped just fine until work, kids, and perimenopause made everything go off the rails.

Nonsense. Things can never get too difficult or overwhelming for anyone, ever. If you were more diligent, less lazy, and not deliberately weaponizing your incompetence, your poor children wouldn’t have to suffer the indignity of being five minutes late to the trampoline park and your husband wouldn’t be humiliated in front of all the other dads (with whom he is always secretly competing) because of the cash given to a strange child rather than an instagram worthy, carefully curated gift. You clearly just don’t care about your family.

I bet you aren’t even a navy seal - surgeon - astronaut, or even a lowly cave-diving anesthesiologist! Because literally anyone can do literally anything if they just work hard enough. There is absolutely no universe in which some people are more capable of some things than other people.

You lazy git.

/s

Look. I am not winning any parent awards. I would go to Target on the way to the trampoline park and buy a lego set and a gift bag and I'd also be at least 15 minutes late (guess what so would like 5 other kids and their parents and no one would care). And I agree some people are just more capable and I don't compete with those people because I try to just be kind to myself and also I don't care as much about a lot of this stuff. I think the odds my kid will still be friends with these kids in 3-4 years are slim.

But they way you are talking just sounds like excuses for being a crap partner. Giving cash does suck -- it's a weird gift that will feel awkward for the birthday kid and his parents and your kid when it's opened (possibly in front of all the other kids). It also isn't necessary -- just be a little later and go get a gift. You don't need to plan in advance but you need to *try* a little.

It's also obvious to everyone that the issue is not this one incident but that OP's DH regularly just does not try and she picks up the slack and is exhausted. In the end this doesn't really have much to do with ADHD. It's totally fine to do less and to aim lower. It's okay to admit your limitations and live within them. What is not okay is simply giving up and abandoning your partner (who fyi has her own limitations and challenges) and then blaming your diagnosis. If you have kids with someone you are signing up for working at it. Not succeeding all the time but just putting in the effort. Asking for a bit of effort is not the same as expecting perfection and you know it.

No, to you people it's only okay for others to lower their standards if they're still within YOUR definition of acceptable standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ADHD is literally poor executive functioning. This task would have taken multiple executive functions: planning, organization, making goals, task initiation, time management, flexibility to deal with you being gone, problem solving (actually he did that, just not how you would have), maybe self-restraint. It's everything he struggles with.

oh yeah it’s such a struggle to go to Target and buy a toy, and show up at the Trampoline park on time 🙄 this dude didn’t care - it’s not adhd.

I have ADHD and that's so ineffective. It's a waste of time, gas, and energy. Everybody knows that birthday parties come up when you have kids that age, so why not grab extra gifts when they are on sale in December or for Labor Day? It's much easier to shop your closet. It sounds like OP could better manage things too. Though if she wants to be frustrated it wasn't a Target gift, it's within her right.

Obviously this guy doesn’t plan far enough in advance to order on Amazon. And lol, no, these types of men wouldn’t be buying extra gifts on sale in january wtf.

But, OP didn't do that either. If she had, she could have tasked him with something else and gotten exactly the gift she wanted.

right. weaponized incompetence gets men like this what they want. now in addition to having to pack and get ready to take the other kid out of town for the sports event, OP will also have to order the birthday present and maybe even set up a carpool to ensure the kid even gets there. that’s the direction this story goes - down, down, down. by the end of my marriage my ex literally did zero.

Well some women also have chaotic households. If it’s that taxing to pick up 5 gifts for birthday gifts the next time you’re at Target, then you are tired and angry. It probably is best for OP to divorce.

why doesn’t OP’s husband think ahead to pick up 5 gifts at Target on sale?

That’s why she should divorce him. They can each get birthday presents, or not, for the weekends they have kids. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

Uh, ma’am. You’re much too reasonable for this board.

[Anonymous]

Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have your family do too much. When the most important thing for your kids is a happy marriage, you have your family do too much. Get rid of travel soccer. Begin there.

Love the family you have. Work within the blessings you have been given - not wishing people would magically change into someone else with different strengths and weaknesses.

Lol
Said no one married to a mentally disordered person ever.

In fact, psychologists say: Do not accommodate dysfunction