My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

Imagine this is an adult throwing chairs at workplace. Of course it’s a safety issue and big deal. I don’t understand people who think this is nothing to worry about.

NP if this were my workplace I would press charges. Assault. And if my workplace did nothing about it, I'd sue them for allowing such behavior.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ask to be changed to another class. IF your kid get's hurt, file a police report for assault.

A police report against a 6 year old? Is this real advice or a way to gin up an online brouhaha?

Dp, but when it’s common enough of an issue that it happens in multiple classrooms and the school admin won’t remove the child from the classroom, I can understand why someone would want a police report filed. The presence of a chair-throwing child in a classroom is a clear and present danger to the other children. It shouldn’t be tolerated.

Won’t remove is highly unlikely. The issue is probably that they cannot legally remove. You can’t blame teachers and school administrators for following federal law.

And Federal law is that the school provide a child with an appropriate IEP - including supports.
The School is not following federal law if this child has a known disability and the school is not supporting the child.

Getting an IEP is a very lengthy process. If a kid throws a chair today maybe an IEP will be in place by January even if every single law is followed.

They’ve got 60 days to do the evaluation, and then 30 days to then develop the IEP.

Yep. It’s at minimum three months. Plus if you’re adjusting meds that becomes a timing factor as well. There is a swiftish timeline but it’s not instant. We began process after last winter break and were just beginning to see accommodations from the IEP implemented the last few weeks of school. Child has not received supports yet this year minus allowing a few OT items she received last year that we sent back into school and a preferred desk in classroom. Regulation remains a significant issue even with home practice, meds, and therapy.

It takes time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

+1, and this is also anyone who has been a parent to a toddler/preschooler knows there are a lot of behaviors that you worry about but are age appropriate and it's only when they don't grow out of them (at around kindergarten age) that it becomes clear they have an issue. The behavior the PP describes would not be considered a sign of autism in a 2/3 yr old, for instance. A severe tantrum, yes, but toddlers sometimes take their clothes off or push all the toys off a shelf when they are upset. As a parent, you look at that behavior and wonder "is something else going on?" You mention it to the pediatrician and she says "well that's age appropriate, but we'll keep an eye on it." Then your kid is 4 and the behavior gets a bit better, maybe in part because you're getting better at managing it and giving your kid what they need. It feels like progress so you think, ok this was normal toddler behavior and he's growing out of it.

Then your kid goes to kindergarten and it suddenly becomes clear that your child is on a totally different trajectory from other kids and you're getting called about behavior twice a week and you realize it's time to get them evaluated. And sure, you wondered about it when they were 3 but you were reassured it was normal and then it became normal to you because you'd been dealing with it every day, and it's not until your child is in a crowded classroom with 20+ other kids and elementary-level expectations that you understand how your kid is different. It will feel like a blindside even if the behavior isn't totally outside the realm of normal for your kid because while you know what your kid is like, you don't know what ALL kids are like at that age and you can't draw those comparisons until they are right in front of you.

I have young children and also work in the field. I can guarantee you that children with such sensory sensitivities show a clear and sustained pattern well before kindergarten. It is not the random tantrum. Parents know, they are just hoping it will go away.

Has it occurred to you that you might be able to recognize that pattern because you work in the field, but that the average parent dealing with this for the very first time may not be able to do so? The parents don't "know" because they don't have the context to know, and 99% of parenting advice for toddlers is "they'll grow out of it, be patient."

Also, something I've learned is that since my kid's issues are similar to undiagnosed issues I have (that no one, not my parents and none of my teachers ever recognized as a pattern even thought it was), it was harder for me to understand that these were treatable problems. This is really, really common.

It sounds like you're in the wrong field, by the way.

+1
I’m the poster above with A mild-moderate ASS kid. Even though he was our 3rd child, and so I knew something was off, I would have had no context for that if he was my first. And even sensing something g was off, I had close friends and family members, doctors, speech therapists, all tell me when he turned around 5, that I was right, but when he was a toddler they thought I was just being neurotic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

But... tantrums ARE normal in toddlers in preschoolers, and the vast majority of kids have tantrums. It's not something that parents tell themselves. It's factual. And yes, a parent may not understand their child's behavior is outside the norm until that becomes clear in elementary, but that doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. It just means they lacked the proper context for it.

Not the types of tantrums we're talking about. Stripping down, knocking over bookcases, throwing things, destroying rooms, etc. You've demonstrated that you don't know what a normal tantrum looks like and why your kid ends up in school like this. There are degrees of what is normal and what is not.

[Anonymous]

Taxpayers and parents need to change the laws so that every classroom is safe. The expectation when children go to school is that they have a safe environment.

Disruptive children get disciplined.

Ultimately if a child is unable to sit in a classroom without disrupting it.....being mean to other children and/or throwing chairs that child needs to be permanently pulled from the gen ed classroom until they can function at expected levels without being disruptive and harming other children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Taxpayers and parents need to change the laws so that every classroom is safe. The expectation when children go to school is that they have a safe environment.

Disruptive children get disciplined.

Ultimately if a child is unable to sit in a classroom without disrupting it.....being mean to other children and/or throwing chairs that child needs to be permanently pulled from the gen ed classroom until they can function at expected levels without being disruptive and harming other children.

+100

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

Imagine this is an adult throwing chairs at workplace. Of course it’s a safety issue and big deal. I don’t understand people who think this is nothing to worry about.

NP if this were my workplace I would press charges. Assault. And if my workplace did nothing about it, I'd sue them for allowing such behavior.

Parents and taxpayers supporting the schools need to get active on the school boards and ultimately change the laws so that all children are in a safe environment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

But... tantrums ARE normal in toddlers in preschoolers, and the vast majority of kids have tantrums. It's not something that parents tell themselves. It's factual. And yes, a parent may not understand their child's behavior is outside the norm until that becomes clear in elementary, but that doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. It just means they lacked the proper context for it.

Not the types of tantrums we're talking about. Stripping down, knocking over bookcases, throwing things, destroying rooms, etc. You've demonstrated that you don't know what a normal tantrum looks like and why your kid ends up in school like this. There are degrees of what is normal and what is not.

+1 exactly. Tantrums are developmentally normal in all toddlers. But, there is a range, and as they get older, the severity of these tantrums usually subside. Three almost 4 year olds, throwing objects around (as an example), it’s not normal. That’s the type of behavior that shouldn’t be ignored and passed off as normal and “only” being a tantrum. because guess what happens? This kid learns that this behavior is tolerated and it carries over into a school setting because they don’t know boundaries and they don’t know that it’s behavior that has consequences.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP whose DD’s friend was also the chair thrower. I’ve wondered this a long time: I was in a big public elementary school in the 80s and early 90s. Where were these kids then? I remember a special education classroom that was kids with severe developmental delays, and I remember some kids who were on the social fringes and in gen ed who would probably be classified as HFA now, but I don’t remember any escalating or violent classroom episodes. Would they have been separated into a different track at Kindergarten intake or did they not exist?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

But... tantrums ARE normal in toddlers in preschoolers, and the vast majority of kids have tantrums. It's not something that parents tell themselves. It's factual. And yes, a parent may not understand their child's behavior is outside the norm until that becomes clear in elementary, but that doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. It just means they lacked the proper context for it.

Not the types of tantrums we're talking about. Stripping down, knocking over bookcases, throwing things, destroying rooms, etc. You've demonstrated that you don't know what a normal tantrum looks like and why your kid ends up in school like this. There are degrees of what is normal and what is not.

+1 exactly. Tantrums are developmentally normal in all toddlers. But, there is a range, and as they get older, the severity of these tantrums usually subside. Three almost 4 year olds, throwing objects around (as an example), it’s not normal. That’s the type of behavior that shouldn’t be ignored and passed off as normal and “only” being a tantrum. because guess what happens? This kid learns that this behavior is tolerated and it carries over into a school setting because they don’t know boundaries and they don’t know that it’s behavior that has consequences.

Then these kids try this at school and the parents get defensive because they believe tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and why is their kid getting picked on? It was just a chair! The parents are totally clueless. They have likely never talked to their pediatrician out of concern for the behavior, or friends, family or other care providers. Or they have tuned it all out and ignored the advice because they didn't want to hear it. But it's a bald faced lie that they had no idea this would happen when they got to kindergarten. They were just checked out and in need of parenting classes. Waiting that long to start get help is a huge disservice to their kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

But... tantrums ARE normal in toddlers in preschoolers, and the vast majority of kids have tantrums. It's not something that parents tell themselves. It's factual. And yes, a parent may not understand their child's behavior is outside the norm until that becomes clear in elementary, but that doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. It just means they lacked the proper context for it.

Not the types of tantrums we're talking about. Stripping down, knocking over bookcases, throwing things, destroying rooms, etc. You've demonstrated that you don't know what a normal tantrum looks like and why your kid ends up in school like this. There are degrees of what is normal and what is not.

+1 exactly. Tantrums are developmentally normal in all toddlers. But, there is a range, and as they get older, the severity of these tantrums usually subside. Three almost 4 year olds, throwing objects around (as an example), it’s not normal. That’s the type of behavior that shouldn’t be ignored and passed off as normal and “only” being a tantrum. because guess what happens? This kid learns that this behavior is tolerated and it carries over into a school setting because they don’t know boundaries and they don’t know that it’s behavior that has consequences.

Then these kids try this at school and the parents get defensive because they believe tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and why is their kid getting picked on? It was just a chair! The parents are totally clueless. They have likely never talked to their pediatrician out of concern for the behavior, or friends, family or other care providers. Or they have tuned it all out and ignored the advice because they didn't want to hear it. But it's a bald faced lie that they had no idea this would happen when they got to kindergarten. They were just checked out and in need of parenting classes. Waiting that long to start get help is a huge disservice to their kids.

If there were two chair throwers, then chair-thrower parents might understand why other parents are concerned. Even their chair-thrower child might get hit by a chair

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

+1, and this is also anyone who has been a parent to a toddler/preschooler knows there are a lot of behaviors that you worry about but are age appropriate and it's only when they don't grow out of them (at around kindergarten age) that it becomes clear they have an issue. The behavior the PP describes would not be considered a sign of autism in a 2/3 yr old, for instance. A severe tantrum, yes, but toddlers sometimes take their clothes off or push all the toys off a shelf when they are upset. As a parent, you look at that behavior and wonder "is something else going on?" You mention it to the pediatrician and she says "well that's age appropriate, but we'll keep an eye on it." Then your kid is 4 and the behavior gets a bit better, maybe in part because you're getting better at managing it and giving your kid what they need. It feels like progress so you think, ok this was normal toddler behavior and he's growing out of it.

Then your kid goes to kindergarten and it suddenly becomes clear that your child is on a totally different trajectory from other kids and you're getting called about behavior twice a week and you realize it's time to get them evaluated. And sure, you wondered about it when they were 3 but you were reassured it was normal and then it became normal to you because you'd been dealing with it every day, and it's not until your child is in a crowded classroom with 20+ other kids and elementary-level expectations that you understand how your kid is different. It will feel like a blindside even if the behavior isn't totally outside the realm of normal for your kid because while you know what your kid is like, you don't know what ALL kids are like at that age and you can't draw those comparisons until they are right in front of you.

I have young children and also work in the field. I can guarantee you that children with such sensory sensitivities show a clear and sustained pattern well before kindergarten. It is not the random tantrum. Parents know, they are just hoping it will go away.

Has it occurred to you that you might be able to recognize that pattern because you work in the field, but that the average parent dealing with this for the very first time may not be able to do so? The parents don't "know" because they don't have the context to know, and 99% of parenting advice for toddlers is "they'll grow out of it, be patient."

Also, something I've learned is that since my kid's issues are similar to undiagnosed issues I have (that no one, not my parents and none of my teachers ever recognized as a pattern even thought it was), it was harder for me to understand that these were treatable problems. This is really, really common.

It sounds like you're in the wrong field, by the way.

This is patently false. Even an annual Well Child visit contains a lengthy and detailed questionnaire. Pediatricians are very well trained to ask nuanced questions and flag potential issues. Many parents are in denial, i know because i have to keep probing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to go and read the Special Needs forum. Don’t post, just read. See what the parents are going through. Listen to their anguish as they post about struggles getting help for their kids both in school and through private therapies. See the emotional and monetary cost that they are living through.

Most parents are trying to help their kids and are frustrated with the system and how it is failing their kids. They don’t want their kid melting down in your kids class. They don’t want to be judged. They want the best for their kid. They want your kid to be safe.

It sucks having a kid melting down and throwing things and all of that. It sucks for the Teacher, it sucks for the students, it sucks for that kid. No one wants this. But solving it is hard and the families who are working to find a solution know it is expensive, there are not enough providers, and there are not enough Teachers.

Just read what those parents are living through. Hopefully it will reset the issue in your mind. You will still be upset about your kids experience and angry that your kid is in danger but maybe a bit less likely to use words like monster and ashamed and horrible parents. While there are some parents who are horrible, the vast majority os SN parents are working their butts off trying to help their kids. It isn’t easy for them or for the kid. But they are trying and not these absentee parents you think they are.

This isn’t about the parents. We don’t need more empathy here, frankly we need less. We need schools with rules where kids come prepared to learn and teachers are able to teach. Kids who throw chairs when they’re upset do not belong in a regular classroom, period. They need a contained environment.

The pendulum has swung too far the wrong way. I’m sorry for their troubles, but we cannot sacrifice the many for the sake of the violent few. Teachers and students have a right to feel safe in their classrooms.

In-person school should be a privilege for behaved children. If kids cannot function in a classroom, online school should be the default.

Luckily that’s illegal under several federal and state laws. And that’s probably why you were drummed out of MCPS, if you are who I think you are based on your other posts.

Is there a problem? Sure. It’s due to schools fighting parents of special needs who want proper support in the classroom. As demonstrated by the challenges discussed in this thread, everyone benefits when the necessary support is in the classroom.

Let the voters decide. This is the future.

They did. And they elected leaders that passed the 14th amendment, the ADA, IDEA, and a variety of state laws that protect the rights of students with disabilities.

They are ripe to be updated for new tools available.

New tools available? Besides it not being clear what you mean, it’s irrelevant. The laws and regulations don’t specify the means.

You just don’t like that the laws specify that schools must be inclusive. I’m guessing you’re the former principal that now wants to banish kids with disabilities to their homes, which would obviously impose significant limitations on the services and supports they could receive.

dp. Laws are not set in stone. They change and will change, because while compassion is a core value of our society, it does not trump the basic needs of the many. There is a difference between being inclusive and accommodating vs. being consumed by the needs of the few.

Honestly, I don’t think IDEA is driven by compassion. It’s driven by practicality. Children with disabilities still (usually) have decades of life ahead of them. They’re going to have to learn academic, social, and emotional skills in order to function in society. Ignoring their needs on basis that it is too hard, expensive, or uncomfortable for others will simply create bigger problems down the line.

Nope it's not practical to spend 30% of your budget on 1% of the population, who will ultimately still end up being the lowest contributor to society, while significantly impacting the needs of the 99% who will have to slave away to keep this thing going.

It sounds terrible and yet our government and society makes these types of decisions routinely, because unfortunately resources are limited.

So then what's your plan? It's cheaper to intervene when kids are young. If you take that away, what happens to the disabled adults? Spend more? Or do you approve of eugenics? Euthanasia? Please, do tell us all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP whose DD’s friend was also the chair thrower. I’ve wondered this a long time: I was in a big public elementary school in the 80s and early 90s. Where were these kids then? I remember a special education classroom that was kids with severe developmental delays, and I remember some kids who were on the social fringes and in gen ed who would probably be classified as HFA now, but I don’t remember any escalating or violent classroom episodes. Would they have been separated into a different track at Kindergarten intake or did they not exist?

I only remember in high school these bad kids got sent to juvenile detention and went to school there. They had whole schools for violent children.

My high school had a big special needs wing, which was totally different than the violent, angry kids we're talking about. The special needs wing was for intellectual disabilities plus down syndrome.

One of my close friends was a teacher here locally. She was assaulted multiple times by a student, including having an object shoved up her rear. Her management told her she needed to control the classroom better and protect the other students more. wtf. She quit. Every teacher I know has similar stories, perhaps not as bad though. WHY are we normalizing this?!!?

I think that parents need to provide an alternative education if their kids cannot be disciplined. Forget tax payers providing it. I'm not sure how the script got turned and we have to provide 1-1 aides for kids like this instead (which takes money away from everyone else).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to go and read the Special Needs forum. Don’t post, just read. See what the parents are going through. Listen to their anguish as they post about struggles getting help for their kids both in school and through private therapies. See the emotional and monetary cost that they are living through.

Most parents are trying to help their kids and are frustrated with the system and how it is failing their kids. They don’t want their kid melting down in your kids class. They don’t want to be judged. They want the best for their kid. They want your kid to be safe.

It sucks having a kid melting down and throwing things and all of that. It sucks for the Teacher, it sucks for the students, it sucks for that kid. No one wants this. But solving it is hard and the families who are working to find a solution know it is expensive, there are not enough providers, and there are not enough Teachers.

Just read what those parents are living through. Hopefully it will reset the issue in your mind. You will still be upset about your kids experience and angry that your kid is in danger but maybe a bit less likely to use words like monster and ashamed and horrible parents. While there are some parents who are horrible, the vast majority os SN parents are working their butts off trying to help their kids. It isn’t easy for them or for the kid. But they are trying and not these absentee parents you think they are.

This isn’t about the parents. We don’t need more empathy here, frankly we need less. We need schools with rules where kids come prepared to learn and teachers are able to teach. Kids who throw chairs when they’re upset do not belong in a regular classroom, period. They need a contained environment.

The pendulum has swung too far the wrong way. I’m sorry for their troubles, but we cannot sacrifice the many for the sake of the violent few. Teachers and students have a right to feel safe in their classrooms.

In-person school should be a privilege for behaved children. If kids cannot function in a classroom, online school should be the default.

Luckily that’s illegal under several federal and state laws. And that’s probably why you were drummed out of MCPS, if you are who I think you are based on your other posts.

Is there a problem? Sure. It’s due to schools fighting parents of special needs who want proper support in the classroom. As demonstrated by the challenges discussed in this thread, everyone benefits when the necessary support is in the classroom.

Let the voters decide. This is the future.

They did. And they elected leaders that passed the 14th amendment, the ADA, IDEA, and a variety of state laws that protect the rights of students with disabilities.

They are ripe to be updated for new tools available.

New tools available? Besides it not being clear what you mean, it’s irrelevant. The laws and regulations don’t specify the means.

You just don’t like that the laws specify that schools must be inclusive. I’m guessing you’re the former principal that now wants to banish kids with disabilities to their homes, which would obviously impose significant limitations on the services and supports they could receive.

dp. Laws are not set in stone. They change and will change, because while compassion is a core value of our society, it does not trump the basic needs of the many. There is a difference between being inclusive and accommodating vs. being consumed by the needs of the few.

Honestly, I don’t think IDEA is driven by compassion. It’s driven by practicality. Children with disabilities still (usually) have decades of life ahead of them. They’re going to have to learn academic, social, and emotional skills in order to function in society. Ignoring their needs on basis that it is too hard, expensive, or uncomfortable for others will simply create bigger problems down the line.

Nope it's not practical to spend 30% of your budget on 1% of the population, who will ultimately still end up being the lowest contributor to society, while significantly impacting the needs of the 99% who will have to slave away to keep this thing going.

It sounds terrible and yet our government and society makes these types of decisions routinely, because unfortunately resources are limited.

So then what's your plan? It's cheaper to intervene when kids are young. If you take that away, what happens to the disabled adults? Spend more? Or do you approve of eugenics? Euthanasia? Please, do tell us all.

Sometimes full-time therapy is more appropriate than regular, in-person school.