My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ask to be changed to another class. IF your kid get's hurt, file a police report for assault.

A police report against a 6 year old? Is this real advice or a way to gin up an online brouhaha?

Dp, but when it’s common enough of an issue that it happens in multiple classrooms and the school admin won’t remove the child from the classroom, I can understand why someone would want a police report filed. The presence of a chair-throwing child in a classroom is a clear and present danger to the other children. It shouldn’t be tolerated.

Won’t remove is highly unlikely. The issue is probably that they cannot legally remove. You can’t blame teachers and school administrators for following federal law.

And Federal law is that the school provide a child with an appropriate IEP - including supports.
The School is not following federal law if this child has a known disability and the school is not supporting the child.

Getting an IEP is a very lengthy process. If a kid throws a chair today maybe an IEP will be in place by January even if every single law is followed.

Why do they need an IEP for disciplinary issues? I think they need to talk to the principal or counselor instead. Actual consequences, not just the rest of the class evacuating. Seems like the rest of the class got the consequence, not the chair thrower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

+1, and this is also anyone who has been a parent to a toddler/preschooler knows there are a lot of behaviors that you worry about but are age appropriate and it's only when they don't grow out of them (at around kindergarten age) that it becomes clear they have an issue. The behavior the PP describes would not be considered a sign of autism in a 2/3 yr old, for instance. A severe tantrum, yes, but toddlers sometimes take their clothes off or push all the toys off a shelf when they are upset. As a parent, you look at that behavior and wonder "is something else going on?" You mention it to the pediatrician and she says "well that's age appropriate, but we'll keep an eye on it." Then your kid is 4 and the behavior gets a bit better, maybe in part because you're getting better at managing it and giving your kid what they need. It feels like progress so you think, ok this was normal toddler behavior and he's growing out of it.

Then your kid goes to kindergarten and it suddenly becomes clear that your child is on a totally different trajectory from other kids and you're getting called about behavior twice a week and you realize it's time to get them evaluated. And sure, you wondered about it when they were 3 but you were reassured it was normal and then it became normal to you because you'd been dealing with it every day, and it's not until your child is in a crowded classroom with 20+ other kids and elementary-level expectations that you understand how your kid is different. It will feel like a blindside even if the behavior isn't totally outside the realm of normal for your kid because while you know what your kid is like, you don't know what ALL kids are like at that age and you can't draw those comparisons until they are right in front of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

Thank you. I'm the person who wrote the response they are trashing with complete lack of empathy. My child went to a small private daycare until the pandemic wiped out the entirety of what would have been his preschool year. He had never been in a large (800+ students), loud public school setting. All I can say is there but for the grace of God. But, this response does reinforce why I wrote the last couple of lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to go and read the Special Needs forum. Don’t post, just read. See what the parents are going through. Listen to their anguish as they post about struggles getting help for their kids both in school and through private therapies. See the emotional and monetary cost that they are living through.

Most parents are trying to help their kids and are frustrated with the system and how it is failing their kids. They don’t want their kid melting down in your kids class. They don’t want to be judged. They want the best for their kid. They want your kid to be safe.

It sucks having a kid melting down and throwing things and all of that. It sucks for the Teacher, it sucks for the students, it sucks for that kid. No one wants this. But solving it is hard and the families who are working to find a solution know it is expensive, there are not enough providers, and there are not enough Teachers.

Just read what those parents are living through. Hopefully it will reset the issue in your mind. You will still be upset about your kids experience and angry that your kid is in danger but maybe a bit less likely to use words like monster and ashamed and horrible parents. While there are some parents who are horrible, the vast majority os SN parents are working their butts off trying to help their kids. It isn’t easy for them or for the kid. But they are trying and not these absentee parents you think they are.

This isn’t about the parents. We don’t need more empathy here, frankly we need less. We need schools with rules where kids come prepared to learn and teachers are able to teach. Kids who throw chairs when they’re upset do not belong in a regular classroom, period. They need a contained environment.

The pendulum has swung too far the wrong way. I’m sorry for their troubles, but we cannot sacrifice the many for the sake of the violent few. Teachers and students have a right to feel safe in their classrooms.

In-person school should be a privilege for behaved children. If kids cannot function in a classroom, online school should be the default.

Luckily that’s illegal under several federal and state laws. And that’s probably why you were drummed out of MCPS, if you are who I think you are based on your other posts.

Is there a problem? Sure. It’s due to schools fighting parents of special needs who want proper support in the classroom. As demonstrated by the challenges discussed in this thread, everyone benefits when the necessary support is in the classroom.

Let the voters decide. This is the future.

They did. And they elected leaders that passed the 14th amendment, the ADA, IDEA, and a variety of state laws that protect the rights of students with disabilities.

They are ripe to be updated for new tools available.

New tools available? Besides it not being clear what you mean, it’s irrelevant. The laws and regulations don’t specify the means.

You just don’t like that the laws specify that schools must be inclusive. I’m guessing you’re the former principal that now wants to banish kids with disabilities to their homes, which would obviously impose significant limitations on the services and supports they could receive.

dp. Laws are not set in stone. They change and will change, because while compassion is a core value of our society, it does not trump the basic needs of the many. There is a difference between being inclusive and accommodating vs. being consumed by the needs of the few.

Honestly, I don’t think IDEA is driven by compassion. It’s driven by practicality. Children with disabilities still (usually) have decades of life ahead of them. They’re going to have to learn academic, social, and emotional skills in order to function in society. Ignoring their needs on basis that it is too hard, expensive, or uncomfortable for others will simply create bigger problems down the line.

So wouldn’t taking a year or two out of in-person school to focus on therapy and online classes be a reasonable solution?

No because many of the parents want to pass the burden on.

[Anonymous]

The procedure today is that the teacher clears all the students out of the classroom, except for the kid who is throwing chairs. It used to be the other way around -- the misbehaving child was removed.

Maybe we ought to go back to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

+1, and this is also anyone who has been a parent to a toddler/preschooler knows there are a lot of behaviors that you worry about but are age appropriate and it's only when they don't grow out of them (at around kindergarten age) that it becomes clear they have an issue. The behavior the PP describes would not be considered a sign of autism in a 2/3 yr old, for instance. A severe tantrum, yes, but toddlers sometimes take their clothes off or push all the toys off a shelf when they are upset. As a parent, you look at that behavior and wonder "is something else going on?" You mention it to the pediatrician and she says "well that's age appropriate, but we'll keep an eye on it." Then your kid is 4 and the behavior gets a bit better, maybe in part because you're getting better at managing it and giving your kid what they need. It feels like progress so you think, ok this was normal toddler behavior and he's growing out of it.

Then your kid goes to kindergarten and it suddenly becomes clear that your child is on a totally different trajectory from other kids and you're getting called about behavior twice a week and you realize it's time to get them evaluated. And sure, you wondered about it when they were 3 but you were reassured it was normal and then it became normal to you because you'd been dealing with it every day, and it's not until your child is in a crowded classroom with 20+ other kids and elementary-level expectations that you understand how your kid is different. It will feel like a blindside even if the behavior isn't totally outside the realm of normal for your kid because while you know what your kid is like, you don't know what ALL kids are like at that age and you can't draw those comparisons until they are right in front of you.

I have young children and also work in the field. I can guarantee you that children with such sensory sensitivities show a clear and sustained pattern well before kindergarten. It is not the random tantrum. Parents know, they are just hoping it will go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My (complete non-angelic) kid and his classmates were traumatized by a kid like this last year in 2nd grade. The kid finally was placed elsewhere in the winter. I don’t know what the answer is other than very expensive solutions like skilled 1:1 aides. I felt badly for the poor little guy who couldn’t control himself, the teacher, and the students who were terrified of what was going to happen every day.

And the poor parents who are typically rejected by the community.

They deserve to be. Trust I will be keeping my eyes open to figure who the parents of this kid are at back to school night.

I am that parent. My child has been challenged with regulation since the day he was born. I have another child with the same parenting who is popular everywhere and praised for good behavior. I spend hours each month on parent coaching, psychiatrists for my dysregulated child, and lots of money on IEP advocates to get my child a 1-1 aide. Honestly the aide is as much for your child because they deserve to be safe and the school does t provide that with a child like mine in your class, as for mine. I send my child to special, highly regarded therapeutic camps in the summer that take up hours of driving and cost three times what any camp for my daughter could cost. My dysregulated child is, honestly, on the ASD spectrum and struggles, and is not diagnosed because he has a very high iq and can answer standings test questions whether he knows the answers or not. I would give a better environment if there was one but no private school will take him and he is three grade levels ahead in academics. So I work tirelessly to get him an aide who can keep him calm and stop him from being aggressive to others. It does work. But it is incredibly hard work and only possible because I have a lot of extra money and am a type A person who plans for this. Most parents in this situation would fail and it has come at the cost of a god marriage as it requires so much risk and out of the box thinking to manage that we often disagree.

I am worried more for your chi,d than you have having a son like this. It is a special hell I could not wish on anyone. I am scared for his future too. I try any medication that migh t work. But if it helps you to think about me as a demon who created my son, please go ahead. But the world is not so simple,

I am so sad to hear of children who were injured by other kids and the school thinks it’s ok. It is not. And I am so so sad that our schools have become places where we not only are children not safe, we are telling them it is ok to not feel safe.

That is all. Wish I had something better.

Amazing post. And you’re a special person to have the patience, perspective and empathy to even try to reason with OP.

We have a strikingly similar story. And I’m just so utterly exhausted and sick and tired of the cruel, snotty, thoughtless crap from people like OP that we’re now in pure defense/self-preservation mode. I don’t have the capacity right now to try and find common ground or understand her plight. Maybe one day.

For now I hope her kid catches a chair in the face, and the school refuses to do anything. Then she spend hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars trying to figure out a solution. Then the kid catches another chair in the face. More effort, no results, no one can help. Then another chair in the face. Then she and her husband fight every day about what to do about their kid being beaten with chairs every day and they can’t fix it. Then she quits her job to deal full time with this chair thing. Then their other kid is crying every day alone in their bedroom because there’s literally no time or space or capacity for ANYTHING but trying so Fking desperately to solve this chair thing. That’s what I hope.

Well now we see where your kid learned how to not regulate feelings and perfected chair throwing. You are wishing harm on children and should be ashamed of yourself.

Honestly it sound like karma finally caught up to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

Imagine this is an adult throwing chairs at workplace. Of course it’s a safety issue and big deal. I don’t understand people who think this is nothing to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to go and read the Special Needs forum. Don’t post, just read. See what the parents are going through. Listen to their anguish as they post about struggles getting help for their kids both in school and through private therapies. See the emotional and monetary cost that they are living through.

Most parents are trying to help their kids and are frustrated with the system and how it is failing their kids. They don’t want their kid melting down in your kids class. They don’t want to be judged. They want the best for their kid. They want your kid to be safe.

It sucks having a kid melting down and throwing things and all of that. It sucks for the Teacher, it sucks for the students, it sucks for that kid. No one wants this. But solving it is hard and the families who are working to find a solution know it is expensive, there are not enough providers, and there are not enough Teachers.

Just read what those parents are living through. Hopefully it will reset the issue in your mind. You will still be upset about your kids experience and angry that your kid is in danger but maybe a bit less likely to use words like monster and ashamed and horrible parents. While there are some parents who are horrible, the vast majority os SN parents are working their butts off trying to help their kids. It isn’t easy for them or for the kid. But they are trying and not these absentee parents you think they are.

This isn’t about the parents. We don’t need more empathy here, frankly we need less. We need schools with rules where kids come prepared to learn and teachers are able to teach. Kids who throw chairs when they’re upset do not belong in a regular classroom, period. They need a contained environment.

The pendulum has swung too far the wrong way. I’m sorry for their troubles, but we cannot sacrifice the many for the sake of the violent few. Teachers and students have a right to feel safe in their classrooms.

In-person school should be a privilege for behaved children. If kids cannot function in a classroom, online school should be the default.

Luckily that’s illegal under several federal and state laws. And that’s probably why you were drummed out of MCPS, if you are who I think you are based on your other posts.

Is there a problem? Sure. It’s due to schools fighting parents of special needs who want proper support in the classroom. As demonstrated by the challenges discussed in this thread, everyone benefits when the necessary support is in the classroom.

Let the voters decide. This is the future.

They did. And they elected leaders that passed the 14th amendment, the ADA, IDEA, and a variety of state laws that protect the rights of students with disabilities.

With the change in the SC, these items should be revisited. I am guess it wouldn't go your way this time.

[Anonymous]

Student safety SHOULD take precedence. It doesn't.

Op, start the process to transfer your child out of the class.

There was a child who threw chairs in one of ds's classrooms. It wasn't until multiple parents complained that anything actually helpful in the classroom was done. The child eventually had an aide, and there was a plan in place for him. He needed support right through high school.

For all but one parent though, the safety of our kids and the teacher was paramount. Without an aide the only plan was to call a couple of male teachers to the classroom every single time. The room would be cleared and the child talked down. I believe a threat of legal action by parents finally got the school psychologist involved. CPS also became involved.

Bottom line, get your kid out of there.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this

They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors

Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.

Blame the administration for making this insane system.

And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.

Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.

These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.

I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.

That's right. My child was that child when he started Kindergarten. His class had 28 students. He would become overwhelmed and strip naked, dump all the toys off the shelves and climb into them curling into a fetal position. He hit anyone who tried to help him and had the classroom evacuated twice in the span of the first month of school. We were blindsided by this behavior (it was "mild" autism) and frantically started searching for providers. We payed thousands of dollars for private evaluations. We BEGGED the school to place him in a MORE restrictive classroom because he and the other children were suffering. The school said they were legally obligated to have him in the least restrictive environment while data was collected. He cried every night at home that the classroom was too loud. He banged his head in the lunchroom leaving himself bruised. We pleaded for a 1:1 aide while this data was collected (how much data do you need?!?) and first they said there was already a teacher and an aide assigned to the class. We begged more. They said they didn't have the money and since he didn't have an IEP yet they couldn't assign a 1:1 to him. We hired an advocate and spent thousands and thousands of dollars during the IEP process. We signed him up for private speech/OT/PT and when the insurance runs out on those services at the mid-way point of the year, we spend thousands out of pocket on those therapies.

My child is doing well now but as a pp said, it's only because we have the means and education to provide for and advocate for not only our child, but frankly his classmates. The majority of parents are like my husband and I, we care not only about our child but the other children impacted. No one needs to be on "the lookout" for these parents to shame them. Trust and believe most are doing everything they possibly can and already feel horrible. No need to make them cry even more at night because chances are they are holding on by a thread and crying multiple times a week over their frustration/stress.

You lost me at the bolded. More honest for you to acknowledge that you were in denial up to that point and had not started needed intervention. If parents are honest with their pediatrician, issues are identified early and parents guided through appropriate channels and therapies.

NP.

Come ON. Why would you be such a b1tch? That's absurd. How are they supposed to know that their kid is going to react like that if he's never been in that environment before? What's wrong with you?

+1, and this is also anyone who has been a parent to a toddler/preschooler knows there are a lot of behaviors that you worry about but are age appropriate and it's only when they don't grow out of them (at around kindergarten age) that it becomes clear they have an issue. The behavior the PP describes would not be considered a sign of autism in a 2/3 yr old, for instance. A severe tantrum, yes, but toddlers sometimes take their clothes off or push all the toys off a shelf when they are upset. As a parent, you look at that behavior and wonder "is something else going on?" You mention it to the pediatrician and she says "well that's age appropriate, but we'll keep an eye on it." Then your kid is 4 and the behavior gets a bit better, maybe in part because you're getting better at managing it and giving your kid what they need. It feels like progress so you think, ok this was normal toddler behavior and he's growing out of it.

Then your kid goes to kindergarten and it suddenly becomes clear that your child is on a totally different trajectory from other kids and you're getting called about behavior twice a week and you realize it's time to get them evaluated. And sure, you wondered about it when they were 3 but you were reassured it was normal and then it became normal to you because you'd been dealing with it every day, and it's not until your child is in a crowded classroom with 20+ other kids and elementary-level expectations that you understand how your kid is different. It will feel like a blindside even if the behavior isn't totally outside the realm of normal for your kid because while you know what your kid is like, you don't know what ALL kids are like at that age and you can't draw those comparisons until they are right in front of you.

I have young children and also work in the field. I can guarantee you that children with such sensory sensitivities show a clear and sustained pattern well before kindergarten. It is not the random tantrum. Parents know, they are just hoping it will go away.

Has it occurred to you that you might be able to recognize that pattern because you work in the field, but that the average parent dealing with this for the very first time may not be able to do so? The parents don't "know" because they don't have the context to know, and 99% of parenting advice for toddlers is "they'll grow out of it, be patient."

Also, something I've learned is that since my kid's issues are similar to undiagnosed issues I have (that no one, not my parents and none of my teachers ever recognized as a pattern even thought it was), it was harder for me to understand that these were treatable problems. This is really, really common.

It sounds like you're in the wrong field, by the way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had a chair thrower in 1st grade. He is now top of his class in 4th grade and one of the better behaved kids. It took a lot of therapy, meds, and the right type of school support. It's exhausting and horrible. My kid will now tell me things like "in 1st grade my teacher thought I was so bad, she never let me play at recess and I always had to sit alone". I don't have much advice for the other parents, because all of my energy was tied up in trying to help my own kid. Maybe if it makes you feel better you can try to be grateful that your child doesn't struggle this way? Not trying to he snarky, just offering another viewpoint. I also think it's totally fine to keep asking the principal to be moved to another classroom if your child is truly bothered or having trouble learning.

Sorry but what kid wouldn’t be bothered or have trouble learning if they think that at any minute someone might throw a chair at them? Imagine if this was allowed at work. I do have sympathy for the chair throwing kid too but not at the expense of every other kid + teachers’ safety. First priority at school should be making sure all kids and staff are sane, if you can’t do that, no learning will be happening.

My kid would be fine. Same way they’re not terrified when they see a crazy homeless person, or a loud barking dog, or a kid with cerebral palsy, or whatever else it is that you find undesirable or that makes you uncomfortable.

Nothing in your post indicates your kid is under any threat.

Wow so you think the possibility of another person throwing a chair at your kid's head is no big deal? I can see a homeless person, a dog, or a kid with disabilities (WTF they don't present any danger) without issue. We're talking about a violent, aggressive, unpredictable person IN your kids' classroom. That IS an issue. You're dense if you think it's NBD.

+1.

My 25 year old brother has a keloid scar on his knee from a kid hitting him with a chair in school when he was 5 year old.

Thank goodness it was his knee and not his face.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Bull. Kid is a spoiled brat. If he doesn't know how to behave then he should not be in the class.

Although I agree with you, I wouldn’t put it in such harsh terms but ultimately this is a parent issue that has been stewing since these kids were babies. Some parents treat their kids with kid gloves that they don’t discipline, set boundaries, and just let these tantrums go on, they let them throw things, and they don’t teach self discipline. They don’t set them up for success at school in a group setting. These parents make excuse after excuse for their child.

Agree. It's very easy to rationalize and explain away this behavior before kindergarten. People tell themselves that tantrums are normal, all the kids do it, and it's just the way it is in preschool. They don't fully realize how outside the norm their kids behavior is and don't take it seriously until the are confronted with it at school.

But... tantrums ARE normal in toddlers in preschoolers, and the vast majority of kids have tantrums. It's not something that parents tell themselves. It's factual. And yes, a parent may not understand their child's behavior is outside the norm until that becomes clear in elementary, but that doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. It just means they lacked the proper context for it.