So what is changing? Questions about SC affirmative action decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think college admissions officers are going to get very tired of reading essays about how race affected my life...

This is probably right.

I wonder if things like National Hispanic Scholar or African American scholarships will become more impactful, admission-wise, if they are awarded before application deadlines and included in the application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone says California has pushed SAT and ACT aside.

But the fact is, APs carry more weight in California than any other state.

ANd APs test actual content---take a class, learn the material, pass the test and get college credit. Someone who can get all 5s on 8 AP classes is better prepared for college than someone who took 8 APs and got all 3s or a mix of 4/5s.

AP scores are not a significant consideration. I am not sure where PP got that info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hard reality is that black and Hispanic admissions are going to suffer. All the evidence from colleges who have already dropped “the box” show this. The box gave schools an easy, systematic way to fulfill the diversity goal. Everything else is a proxy or doesn’t scale (essays). At schools with tens of thousands of applications, it’s going to be almost impossible not to forego some black and Hispanic admissions.

Cal tried to keep of URM numbers because California is one of the most liberal states in the country and they had the support of the their board and the state government. The reality is that most public schools will not even try. . They will comply with the law and with whatever direction they are given by their legal departments. Some private schools may try to skirt the law, but I wouldn't expect Michigan or UNC to do the same

Skirting the law is not the appropriate way to describe this--it's following what the majority opinion explicitly and directly said is central to their opinion. I agree they may have a hard time recruiting and admitting diverse populations (UC system shows for instance that many admitted Black students do not want to attend because of lack of diversity which amplifies the issue). Public schools in highly segregated states however (like UNC) might be able to adopt a geographical formula for in-state applications--top x percent of students from each school admitted

It's skirting the law. Robert's line allowed for a kid who writes about overcoming adversity in terms of race to be admitted. based on the diversity overcome, not because they are black. I'm sure it will take a few years to flesh out, but I think everyone who thinks they've found a way around a ruling will be disappointed. As far as UNC and other state schools, you're assuming their state governments and appointed boards will want them to find ways around the ruling.

And the private schools have expressed that's how they are likely to meet the criteria--by focusing on diversity and experiences of adversity, so not skirting the law. I'm not saying it's going to 100% work, but I wouldn't consider that "skirting the law" -- rather following it.
And you said "I was assuming"-- which seems an overstatement for saying a state "might be able to"-- I was expressing a possibility, not a reality. UVA has already expressed geographical targeting, so I guess MI (it would be easy there--plenty of areas are 90+% Black) , UMd, UWi, UMN etc. and other blue/purple areas with high levels of segregation in some areas could do the same. Not saying it will necessarily work or will have roadblocks, but I expect that's where public school efforts will likely go first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think college admissions officers are going to get very tired of reading essays about how race affected my life...

There is nothing to stop them from saying that we are race blind and will disregard any applicant whose essay focuses on race.

Except that they value having a diverse class so it makes no sense that they would do that.

They also value not paying out their endowment in settlements. Do you really think AOs will be able to explain the nuances to their staffs without accidentally stepping over the line between admissions based on adversity and admissions based on the disclosure of race? Do you trust admissions staffs to stay silent?

They won't have to stay silent. They will not break the law. They will still achieve their diversity goals.

https://www.vox.com/scotus/2023/6/29/23767756/affirmative-action-college-admissions-race-sffa-ruling

PS admissions officers are not idiots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Diversity makes everyone smarter and stronger (mentally). I don't need to be in a class with 30 other people just like me. I want to learn from other people's experiences and perspectives. And I want that for my kids as well. This is true in engineering as well as humanities. You don't know what you haven't lived.

As Thomas noted in his concurrence, nobody (not even Harvard in this case) has been able to explain or quantify any educational benefit from diversity.

And in engineering, diversity is totally irrelevant. The bridge stays up, the plane flies, or not, regardless of the race of the engineer who designed them.

Not true at all.

Also, all the "PC" posters and anti- diversity posts on this site in general lately make me wonder if there aren't some political (maybe paid, maybe just trolling) posters here. Wish we could see who posts again and again.

Some people haven’t completely lost common sense! And they are ready to demonstrate it for free. Not everyone who doesn’t think like you is a troll.
-DP who doesn’t care about diversity in the slightest

[Anonymous]

Hopeful for my white low income child!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think college admissions officers are going to get very tired of reading essays about how race affected my life...

There is nothing to stop them from saying that we are race blind and will disregard any applicant whose essay focuses on race.

Except that they value having a diverse class so it makes no sense that they would do that.

They also value not paying out their endowment in settlements. Do you really think AOs will be able to explain the nuances to their staffs without accidentally stepping over the line between admissions based on adversity and admissions based on the disclosure of race? Do you trust admissions staffs to stay silent?

They won't have to stay silent. They will not break the law. They will still achieve their diversity goals.

https://www.vox.com/scotus/2023/6/29/23767756/affirmative-action-college-admissions-race-sffa-ruling

PS admissions officers are not idiots

AOs and Interviewers gave Asians students higher scores on ECs, leadership, character, etc.
It was the admissions commitee that was racist in Harvard case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopeful for my white low income child!

Wirte essay about hardship being a poor White kid with reverse discrimination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have some questions:

1. Does this mean the race box goes away?

2. Does this mean the race box goes away immediately or next cycle?

3. Does this mean that colleges can't take an educated guess re: race and use that in consideration (ie, looking at name, zip, clubs, parents HSBCU legacy, etc)?

Common App is keeping the questions:

Race & ethnicity questions in Common App

Here’s what you can expect from Common App in the 2023-2024 admissions cycle beginning on August 1:

The optional questions asking for race and ethnicity will stay on the first-year and transfer applications.

Member colleges are able to hide (that is, “suppress”) the self-disclosed race and ethnicity information from application PDF files for both first-year and transfer applications. That means when they receive an application PDF from Common App, the race and ethnicity data will not be visible. Colleges also are able to suppress the following data from the application PDF: any or all test information, social security number, date of birth, and gender.

Member colleges also are able to configure the data imports from Common App to recognize or exclude race and ethnicity. Colleges use this information for state and federal reporting, institutional metrics, and other business purposes.

Common App will continue to use student race and ethnicity responses for statistical and research purposes and to provide insights into the national conversation on equity in college admissions.

We will maintain our planned August 1 launch of the 2023-2024 Common App, so colleges, students, and the counseling community can prepare as normal.

https://www.commonapp.org/race-in-admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopeful for my white low income child!

Wirte essay about hardship being a poor White kid with reverse discrimination

You are probably being sarcastic but he did have some issues with peers and even adults being one of the few white kids in certain settings. It probably won’t fly though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's changing is that pretty soon the parents on this board will have lost one of their favorite reasons for why their mediocre kid didn't get into an ivy league school.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they keep trying to make diversity a goal, it's not the 90s anymore we should be looking for the best and brightest.

Diversity makes everyone smarter and stronger (mentally). I don't need to be in a class with 30 other people just like me. I want to learn from other people's experiences and perspectives. And I want that for my kids as well. This is true in engineering as well as humanities. You don't know what you haven't lived.

As Thomas noted in his concurrence, nobody (not even Harvard in this case) has been able to explain or quantify any educational benefit from diversity.

And in engineering, diversity is totally irrelevant. The bridge stays up, the plane flies, or not, regardless of the race of the engineer who designed them.

Not true at all.

Also, all the "PC" posters and anti- diversity posts on this site in general lately make me wonder if there aren't some political (maybe paid, maybe just trolling) posters here. Wish we could see who posts again and again.

The studies showing a supposed benefit as not rigorous at all. There is a repetition crisis with these kinds of social science surveys - you publish the one time you get the results you like when several other attempts yielded different results.

And are you willing to say HBCUs are a bad choice because they lack diversity? Or is it only almost-all-white groups that can’t be innovative enough without it?

HBCUs tend to be more diverse than non-HBCUs. That whites are not the majority does not make them not diverse. They tend to have more white people than non-HBCUs have black people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think college admissions officers are going to get very tired of reading essays about how race affected my life...

Not if they want to create a diverse student body. They will suck it up. Better that than a homogeneous campus.

[Anonymous]

The parents who are excited about this decision will be disappointed when their kids still don’t get into their dream schools next year. There will be thousands of depressed kids and families starting Dec 15, 2023. Mark my words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The parents who are excited about this decision will be disappointed when their kids still don’t get into their dream schools next year. There will be thousands of depressed kids and families starting Dec 15, 2023. Mark my words.

What you don’t understand is that parents just seek logic and equity. My perfect child in every objective and subjective measurement was rejected by many places largely on gender and race. How do I know? Objective reads of his file and comparison to admitted students credentials. It was what we had the deal with. You know where we felt no angst? MIT. Stanford. Places where we knew the Uber qualified made it a lottery for all/ but to see students with credentials that paled in comparison to my son be admitted due to minority status in other places was literally sickening. If it was your kid you would feel the same- it want overwhelming better stats it was race, fancy private high schools or other BS that got in with flatly lower and much lower metrics. So will this solve everyong? Not but it’s a step in the right direction.