Youngkin will block schools from accommodating transgender students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked at the model policies and they mostly seem appropriate to me. The one thing I disagree with though is that teachers have a consistitutional right to refuse to use the child’s preferred name and pronouns. If the school decides it is school policy to used the names students chose for themselves, then it is very disruptive for teachers to refuse to do so. Imagine if a teacher refused to call a student “Mohamed” or “Jesus” because they claimed that violated their religious beliefs? Religious & speech rights are never absolute. And given that gender identity/expression is a protected class, it is hard to argue that teachers can freely refuse to recognize preferred gender identity. Your religious beliefs on gender do not give license to discriminate. Eg - an Orthodox teacher could not refuse to teach female students based on religious beliefs.

This was already decided in the courts.

Teachers cannot be required to use different pronouns.

This pronoun exemption is not something Youngkin created. It was already decided in the courts. I believe the case is cited somewhere in the document.

Read the entire document.

It is very moderate and reasonable, and not at all what the detractors and headlines will have you believe.

Parents of trans kids need to read the entire document. It might allay some of your fears and concerns.

That was the sixth circuit, which doesn’t encompass Virginia, and a big part of the issue was that it was a university. The court made a big deal out of the free speech rights of university professors specifically because it’s academia. I don’t think that’s applicable to high schools. So no this was not already the law.

The Loudoun County teacher won his case.

That was about sharing his opinion about the issue. It wasn’t about his actual right to misgender a student.

Oh and it was just preliminary relief, not a win that would create law.

Thanks for explaining.

Direct sourcing is so important.

That is why those who are upset about this, especially teachers and parents of trans kids need to read the entire 20 page document, including the sample guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about names and pronouns. Needing to tell parents when that could put the child in danger. Teachers and other staff members being protected while they misgender students.

NP. If the newest WPATH SOCs go into effect in VA, then we ARE talking about medicalization, because they recommend access to medical treatment for trans kids without parental consent if parents do not support transition. Therefore, it is an entirely realistic scenario that a child at school could adopt new pronouns and then (because the parents are not supportive), use the schools to get access to medical care. This is not an unlikely scenario under the new SOCs.

So you think that if this order is not signed, a minor could, through the school, get hormone blockers or testosterone?

No, because we do not know what is going to happen with the adoption of the new SOCs. And it will never be the school itself providing medical care; the school would refer the child to social services which then facilitates access to care. But if the new SOCs are adopted as best practice for kids in VA, then presumably school systems have to follow those SOCs, meaning that schools will refer kids to social services for access to affirming medical care without parental knowledge or consent.

To be clear I don’t support everything in Youngkin’s guidelines (and I agree with the people who recommend reading the actual guidelines). I see no harm in kids trying on different identities at school without their parents knowing and I don’t think teachers should have to keep track of them all. But what I do think is that Youngkin’s guidelines were drafted knowing the WPATH SOC changes were being promulgated and with an eye to putting something into place involving parents in medical care before the SOCs are adopted in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

I think he'd lose support in Virginia if he started spending more time in other states, but overall he is popular in Virginia in part because the alternatives from the Democratic party have been so unpalatable. And empowering parents to take on the far left educational establishment is smart politics. People like Karl Frisch and Laura Jane Cohen disgust many in Fairfax and certainly aren't ever feasible candidates for state-wide office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

That is sad. Abortions will be gone soon and then I will be moving back to Maryland

Bye!

Hopefully businesses will follow and obgyns like in Texas. Taking away rights will hurt you too in the end. First they came……

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

I am seeing in my neighbirhood feminist liberal moms of girls who support Youngkin on this issue. It could go either way in northern Virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

Can you stop being a moron

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

I am seeing in my neighbirhood feminist liberal moms of girls who support Youngkin on this issue. It could go either way in northern Virginia

Especially moms of potential recruited D1 athletes. When an issue starts to affect your daughter’s future, then people wake up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

Virginia is a Dillon's Rule state. You can fume all you want but some policy is established at the state level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

I am seeing in my neighbirhood feminist liberal moms of girls who support Youngkin on this issue. It could go either way in northern Virginia

I don't object as much to this issue (except I think there's some sneakiness in the wording around whether teachers need to call students by their preferred name/pronoun)--the guidance isn't as bad as I was worried about. But every mom I know who voted Youngkin regrets it. I know about 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about names and pronouns. Needing to tell parents when that could put the child in danger. Teachers and other staff members being protected while they misgender students.

NP. If the newest WPATH SOCs go into effect in VA, then we ARE talking about medicalization, because they recommend access to medical treatment for trans kids without parental consent if parents do not support transition. Therefore, it is an entirely realistic scenario that a child at school could adopt new pronouns and then (because the parents are not supportive), use the schools to get access to medical care. This is not an unlikely scenario under the new SOCs.

So you think that if this order is not signed, a minor could, through the school, get hormone blockers or testosterone?

No, because we do not know what is going to happen with the adoption of the new SOCs. And it will never be the school itself providing medical care; the school would refer the child to social services which then facilitates access to care. But if the new SOCs are adopted as best practice for kids in VA, then presumably school systems have to follow those SOCs, meaning that schools will refer kids to social services for access to affirming medical care without parental knowledge or consent.

To be clear I don’t support everything in Youngkin’s guidelines (and I agree with the people who recommend reading the actual guidelines). I see no harm in kids trying on different identities at school without their parents knowing and I don’t think teachers should have to keep track of them all. But what I do think is that Youngkin’s guidelines were drafted knowing the WPATH SOC changes were being promulgated and with an eye to putting something into place involving parents in medical care before the SOCs are adopted in VA.

This just seems like a wild slippery slop fallacy. In order of this to happen, so, so many things would have to change and we are far from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

I am seeing in my neighbirhood feminist liberal moms of girls who support Youngkin on this issue. It could go either way in northern Virginia

I don't object as much to this issue (except I think there's some sneakiness in the wording around whether teachers need to call students by their preferred name/pronoun)--the guidance isn't as bad as I was worried about. But every mom I know who voted Youngkin regrets it. I know about 12.

I definitely think reading the entire guidance helps to lower the temperature in the room.

I have seen a swing of support towards Youngkin the more he governs. It probably depends on our circles, of course.

But ai do know that moms of girl athletes support him on this issue. And a lot of moms of middle school girls who might otherwise lean liberal but are seeing this explosion with their young teen girls and are getting very concerned with the social contagion and overal anti woman feel of the trans push. I think the political element of the trans community has overplayed its hand a bit, so pushback from otherwise left of center parents is starting to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is just awful. There are so many statistics about the danger many of these kids are in from their parents and others, and from suicide. And Youngkin wants to make sure these kids are in danger.

Can you cite these statistics?

NP
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

It is true that transgender youth are more likely to commit suicide. Considering that dysmorphia is often enough comorbid with a bunch of other stuff, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21671938/, causality is far from clear. BTW do you really think the Trevor project came into this analysis trying to find the answer, in a spirit of scientific inquiry? Or maybe do you think you should interpret their study through the lens of understanding they are advocates for a position.

This "but they'll commit suicide" argument -- maybe it's true, but the evidence is not speaking loudly, if at all. Could even be the other way, that encouraging transitions leads to more suicides. Given the lack of careful causal analysis in this literature, we'll probably never know. That argument certainly does grab attention though.

BTW do you think people really "want these kids to be in danger"? I expect most believe (rightly) that gender dysmorphia is mostly a fad and that a return to common sense in the schools will do more good than harm for kids. I think you're turning your opponents into monsters to make yourself feel more righteous. They're not.

You can’t just muse about the cause of suicides. Parental and community support of gender identity significantly reduces suicide rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578185/

First, that’s a study of young transwomen, when the majority of the trans-identifying teenagers now are young trans men. It’s also from 2015 and earlier, which at seven years ago is not the same cohort as teenagers today. Read some detransition stories. Medicalization of young people who identify as trans happens at a never-before-seen level now.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about names and pronouns. Needing to tell parents when that could put the child in danger. Teachers and other staff members being protected while they misgender students.

NP. If the newest WPATH SOCs go into effect in VA, then we ARE talking about medicalization, because they recommend access to medical treatment for trans kids without parental consent if parents do not support transition. Therefore, it is an entirely realistic scenario that a child at school could adopt new pronouns and then (because the parents are not supportive), use the schools to get access to medical care. This is not an unlikely scenario under the new SOCs.

So you think that if this order is not signed, a minor could, through the school, get hormone blockers or testosterone?

No, because we do not know what is going to happen with the adoption of the new SOCs. And it will never be the school itself providing medical care; the school would refer the child to social services which then facilitates access to care. But if the new SOCs are adopted as best practice for kids in VA, then presumably school systems have to follow those SOCs, meaning that schools will refer kids to social services for access to affirming medical care without parental knowledge or consent.

To be clear I don’t support everything in Youngkin’s guidelines (and I agree with the people who recommend reading the actual guidelines). I see no harm in kids trying on different identities at school without their parents knowing and I don’t think teachers should have to keep track of them all. But what I do think is that Youngkin’s guidelines were drafted knowing the WPATH SOC changes were being promulgated and with an eye to putting something into place involving parents in medical care before the SOCs are adopted in VA.

This just seems like a wild slippery slop fallacy. In order of this to happen, so, so many things would have to change and we are far from them.

I don’t think very much has to change for this to become reality. Medical bodies will adopt the new SOCs because WPATH is (correctly) the most respected entity when it comes to transgender care.

I’m sorry, but you cannot divorce this proposal from Youngkin from the WPATH SOC changes. They are bound up together. I actually think that’s unfortunate, but I think it is reality.

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Anonymous wrote:The data suggest taking steps to create an affirming home or school environments could be crucial suicide-prevention tools. The report found that fewer than 1 in 3 trans and nonbinary youth felt affirmed in their gender at home, and LGBTQ youth who felt high social support from their family reported attempting suicide at less than half the rate of those who felt low or moderate social support. The survey found that LGBTQ youth who reported their school to be LGBTQ-affirming also reported lower rates of attempting suicide. “Sometimes people look at a broad social trend like this, and they think about laws that need to change, policies that need to change, and those do need to happen,” Paley says. “But every single person has the ability to create a different experience for the young people in their life.”

https://time.com/6173081/suicidal-thoughts-lgbtq-youth/

We are in very liberal northern virginia where almost every house has one of those rainbow in this house we believe signs.

Parents here are not sending their kids to conversion camp for being gay or trans. They are throwing them parties.

There is no reason for schools to hide this kind of information from parents.

Read the actual document.

Not the filtered through bias media summaries.

It is a well thought out document.

There are definitely POS Youngkin-voting parents in this area.

POS politicians like Karl Frisch try to command the stage and set the agenda. Our kids may not end up crossing genders, but parents may cross political lines to vote for common-sense politicians like Youngkin.

Anyone I know who crossed political lines to vote for Youngkin no longer think he has common-sense and deeply regrets their decision. And I'm a moderate and know quite a few.

Polls are showing that Youngkin's approval is increasing. It is close to 60% now, with only 35% disapproving. Disapproval is virtually unchanged since he was elected.

56% approval is the average polling rate. But his polling has gone down in NoVA which is where we are talking about.

I am seeing in my neighbirhood feminist liberal moms of girls who support Youngkin on this issue. It could go either way in northern Virginia

I don't object as much to this issue (except I think there's some sneakiness in the wording around whether teachers need to call students by their preferred name/pronoun)--the guidance isn't as bad as I was worried about. But every mom I know who voted Youngkin regrets it. I know about 12.

I definitely think reading the entire guidance helps to lower the temperature in the room.

I have seen a swing of support towards Youngkin the more he governs. It probably depends on our circles, of course.

But ai do know that moms of girl athletes support him on this issue. And a lot of moms of middle school girls who might otherwise lean liberal but are seeing this explosion with their young teen girls and are getting very concerned with the social contagion and overal anti woman feel of the trans push. I think the political element of the trans community has overplayed its hand a bit, so pushback from otherwise left of center parents is starting to happen.

I wonder whether you are being disingenuous unless you are talking about conservative circles. Or your friends don't tell you the truth or only tell you the limited ways they support something Youngkin does. His views on abortion are very conservative and nd he's not governed as a moderate. Fortunately he's not that competent either so little will change.

I do think the transgender thing gets people freaked out because so many of their daughters are playing around with trans identities and people get worried about whether that means they are going to medically transition so they may be glad to see some of it reined in. But I don't know a single female athlete or parent who is concerned about transgirls and sports and I have four daughters who play competitive levels in different sports in MS and HS and upper ES travel teams. There are so few transgirls who play any sports at any competitive level.