What do you do when you've reached the limit of your parenting abilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you a single parent? I didn't see any mention of a partner in your post, making me wonder.

Can you give us a specific example of a recent battle, how you handled it, and what the outcome was? Perhaps then we can better help you modify your reactions (if necessary) and give you suggestions. It's also entirely possible he could benefit from counseling.

I'm not a single parent, but I'm a SAHM parent and DH works long hours so the bulk of the moment-to-moment parenting falls to me.

To give an example from yesterday, DS and his 3-year-old sister were in the living room, I'm not sure what preceded the event because I was making dinner. I look over just in time to see her throw a toy at him (missing him by a mile, which doesn't excuse her behavior but it's not like anyone could claim that he overreacted because he was in physical pain), and then him pick it up and hurl it at her really hard, hitting her square in the face. I tell him in a harsh voice (but not yelling) that he knows he's not supposed to throw things, and I want him to take a time out to calm down and then we'll talk about it. He just stands there looking furious and doesn't move. I tell him for the second time that he needs to take a time out, and that I'll talk to him about it when he's done. I then turn back around and realize blood is gushing from the 3-year-old's nose, DH still hasn't moved, so then I do raise my voice to him that he needs to take his time-out now, and there will be more consequences if he doesn't. He finally goes upstairs, I get the bloody nose to stop, and then talk to her about how it was wrong to throw a toy at her brother, and she owes him an apology when he comes down even though she's the one who got hurt, because her behavior was still wrong.

Once she's all cleaned up, I realize that DS has been upstairs for far longer than required for time-out (he knows how long they are, he keeps track of the time and knows he can come down when it's done). So I go upstairs to talk to him, he's sitting on his bed, tears rolling down his cheeks, face screwed up in a way that I know means he's trying to not break down in a complete screaming fit. I sit down next to him and ask if he's ready to talk, he mumbles yes. I ask him if he understands why he got in trouble, it takes a bit of prompting to get him there ("I'm in trouble because Larla got hurt." "Why are you in trouble over Larla getting hurt?" "Because I hurt her." "How did you hurt her? What was the behavior that was wrong?" "I threw a toy at her"), and then I confirm that yes, that's why he got into trouble, and that it's never okay to throw something, even if you're not throwing it at someone or meaning to hurt them, because you could hurt them accidentally, or you could break something. I'm not yelling, I'm not raising my voice, I'm being very deliberate to be calm and not bring anger into it because I know it's counterproductive at this point. Then I ask him if there's anything he'd like to talk about, like anything I didn't see that he thinks I should know happened (e.g., did his sister do even more before throwing the toy that provoked him). I asked him that (although I didn't say this), not because it would excuse his behavior, but to understand if I did miss something important that needs to be addressed, and to give him an outlet if he's fuming about something). He mumbles no, and the tears just keep coming. I ask him what's going on with the tears (kindly, compassionately, truly not angry at all anymore), is there anything I can do to help. He just starts sobbing and can't get words out, finally starts gasping that he doesn't know, he doesn't know, and then goes back to sobbing. I sit with him and hug him for a few minutes until he stops crying, and then ask if he'd like to come downstairs. He doesn't respond, and I follow up with, "You still have to apologize to Larla, but then we'll still have time to play basketball before dinner like we planned." He says he's not coming down because he doesn't want to apologize. I tell him the apology isn't optional, it's part of taking responsibility for your behavior, but if he'd like he can have a few minutes on his own to settle down before he comes down, and he nods his head but refuses to say anything else to me.

I go back downstairs to make sure my daughter's nose bleed has stopped, give him about five minutes, and then go back up (because I know from past experience that at this point, he will literally stay in his room the entire night and refuse to leave if I don't get him to come back down). I sit down with him, give him another hug, sit with him for a few minutes, then say, "I know it's not fun to apologize. It's uncomfortable, you might be anxious about how the other person will respond, it's not something anyone looks forward to. But once you do it and get it worked out, it will be done and you can move on from it." He sits there and shakes his head, looking absolutely furious, won't say a word. So I tell him to come on, we're going downstairs and getting it over with, and finally he gets up and follows me. Once we're out of the room, he's bounding down the stairs totally fine, apologizes to his sister (and I prompt her on giving him a properly apology as well), and then it's like nothing ever happened. I'm left with my head spinning, though, because how does he go through such emotional swings and then seem completely unaffected, not to mention I'm emotionally spent from dragging us through the whole process.

He's pissed as hell that his little sister threw something at him, and he's expressing his anger, which seems to be huge. Have you taught him productive ways to handle/manage the anger? Or just expect him to sit there seething? The tears are the overwhelming emotions he cannot keep in. Help him learn to manage them in a good way.

[Anonymous]

Wow OP you sound like an amazing mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's pissed as hell that his little sister threw something at him, and he's expressing his anger, which seems to be huge. Have you taught him productive ways to handle/manage the anger? Or just expect him to sit there seething? The tears are the overwhelming emotions he cannot keep in. Help him learn to manage them in a good way.

What are your suggestions for how to help him learn to manage his emotions in a good way? I try to do this all the time, but as soon as I try to even go there, he completely shuts down. I can tell he's not even listening, let alone engaging. If anyone has concrete suggestions for how to do these things that I may not have thought of, I'm all ears.

To the extent it's relevant, he resists any suggestion in pretty much any context of how he might do something differently, from how to respond to a difficult situation with a friend to how to fit his shirts in his drawer more easily. Despite having a lot of natural athletic ability, he's falling behind his peers in every sport he tries because he refuses to be coached. No matter how positive and constructive, it seems like any hint that he might not do something perfectly causes him to shut down and dig in his heels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's pissed as hell that his little sister threw something at him, and he's expressing his anger, which seems to be huge. Have you taught him productive ways to handle/manage the anger? Or just expect him to sit there seething? The tears are the overwhelming emotions he cannot keep in. Help him learn to manage them in a good way.

What are your suggestions for how to help him learn to manage his emotions in a good way? I try to do this all the time, but as soon as I try to even go there, he completely shuts down. I can tell he's not even listening, let alone engaging. If anyone has concrete suggestions for how to do these things that I may not have thought of, I'm all ears.

To the extent it's relevant, he resists any suggestion in pretty much any context of how he might do something differently, from how to respond to a difficult situation with a friend to how to fit his shirts in his drawer more easily. Despite having a lot of natural athletic ability, he's falling behind his peers in every sport he tries because he refuses to be coached. No matter how positive and constructive, it seems like any hint that he might not do something perfectly causes him to shut down and dig in his heels.

1) I tell my kid repeatedly that it's OK to be mad, sad, scared, whatever. Completely. But it's what you do with the big emotions that matter. You can ask him what would make him feel better when he's angry. Ask when he's not angry. If he has some good suggestions, tell him to do it. If he doesn't have any, suggest three deep breaths, using words to express his feelings (example: "Sally really makes me angry when she throws things. Actually it's not even her, because she's 3, but I get mad that you don't take up for me"). Going for a walk, run, etc.
2) Model being angry and managing your own emotions. I get mad in the car a lot, at others, or for being late. I talk through it so he can hear the process of cooling down, and problem solving.
3) If he's enjoying sports, keep him in them. If not, find something else he may enjoy. Music? Piano? Minecraft coding?
4) Let him have control over things in his life, to whatever extent you can without disrupting everything. A lot of the anger is often a feeling of no control over his own life.
5) Repeat. He won't get it all at once. It will take awhile and require reminders. Just because he's not doing it now doesn't mean he's not listening to what you are saying.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to say this but you sound like a bit of a drama queen yourself. Maybe he gets it from you. My take on your example is that you were really in his face. Did you really need to drag out of him sentence by sentence why he was in trouble? Of course he knows why -- he's 8, not 3. That might be why he "resists suggestions." You sound way over-involved in his emotions. Also, I'm not a perfect parent BY FAR but I would have addressed right away with him that you saw his sister throw the toy at him and that was wrong and you can understand why he'd be angry about that --anyone would be. (Were you just pretending when you said he's sitting there with furious tears streaming down his cheeks but you had no idea why?) His response -- to throw the toy back -- was what was wrong, not his feelings. Affirm his angry feelings and also emphasize that he's way older than his sister and needs to use bigger kid coping mechanisms than a 3 year old does.

Again, I am far from a perfect parent, but maybe you could emphasize how much bigger he is, and try to foster a more nurturing, big-brother type of response in him. Let him teach his sister things, protect her, etc.

My two cents.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes you just get a bad apple. Nothing you can do about it. Only 10 more years op and then he isn't your problem anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to say this but you sound like a bit of a drama queen yourself. Maybe he gets it from you. My take on your example is that you were really in his face. Did you really need to drag out of him sentence by sentence why he was in trouble? Of course he knows why -- he's 8, not 3. That might be why he "resists suggestions." You sound way over-involved in his emotions. Also, I'm not a perfect parent BY FAR but I would have addressed right away with him that you saw his sister throw the toy at him and that was wrong and you can understand why he'd be angry about that --anyone would be. (Were you just pretending when you said he's sitting there with furious tears streaming down his cheeks but you had no idea why?) His response -- to throw the toy back -- was what was wrong, not his feelings. Affirm his angry feelings and also emphasize that he's way older than his sister and needs to use bigger kid coping mechanisms than a 3 year old does.

Again, I am far from a perfect parent, but maybe you could emphasize how much bigger he is, and try to foster a more nurturing, big-brother type of response in him. Let him teach his sister things, protect her, etc.

My two cents.

Wow, you really wanted to get that insult out in front, didn't you? As for the rest of it, I think you're reading in a bit that wasn't there. I don't believe I said I had no idea why he was crying, but perhaps I misstated something, so please show me. I had a very strong sense as to why, but I also like to give him some room to express things himself instead of presuming I know everything about his inner emotions, because it's always possible I'm wrong or even just a little off base. I also never said his feelings were wrong, that's something I'm always very clear about with him, that we may not be able to control our emotions, but we're responsible for controlling what we do with them. He can certainly be angry with his three-year-old sister, I would be too, but that doesn't mean he can hit her in the face with a toy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's pissed as hell that his little sister threw something at him, and he's expressing his anger, which seems to be huge. Have you taught him productive ways to handle/manage the anger? Or just expect him to sit there seething? The tears are the overwhelming emotions he cannot keep in. Help him learn to manage them in a good way.

What are your suggestions for how to help him learn to manage his emotions in a good way? I try to do this all the time, but as soon as I try to even go there, he completely shuts down. I can tell he's not even listening, let alone engaging. If anyone has concrete suggestions for how to do these things that I may not have thought of, I'm all ears.

To the extent it's relevant, he resists any suggestion in pretty much any context of how he might do something differently, from how to respond to a difficult situation with a friend to how to fit his shirts in his drawer more easily. Despite having a lot of natural athletic ability, he's falling behind his peers in every sport he tries because he refuses to be coached. No matter how positive and constructive, it seems like any hint that he might not do something perfectly causes him to shut down and dig in his heels.

1) I tell my kid repeatedly that it's OK to be mad, sad, scared, whatever. Completely. But it's what you do with the big emotions that matter. You can ask him what would make him feel better when he's angry. Ask when he's not angry. If he has some good suggestions, tell him to do it. If he doesn't have any, suggest three deep breaths, using words to express his feelings (example: "Sally really makes me angry when she throws things. Actually it's not even her, because she's 3, but I get mad that you don't take up for me"). Going for a walk, run, etc.
2) Model being angry and managing your own emotions. I get mad in the car a lot, at others, or for being late. I talk through it so he can hear the process of cooling down, and problem solving.
3) If he's enjoying sports, keep him in them. If not, find something else he may enjoy. Music? Piano? Minecraft coding?
4) Let him have control over things in his life, to whatever extent you can without disrupting everything. A lot of the anger is often a feeling of no control over his own life.
5) Repeat. He won't get it all at once. It will take awhile and require reminders. Just because he's not doing it now doesn't mean he's not listening to what you are saying.

Unfortunately I've been doing all of these things for years. It doesn't seem to be making a difference.

[Anonymous]

Wow. There is a lot going on here.

First, it seems pretty clear that he has a lot going on, ands trouble managing it all. When my child was 7 I posted some roughly similar questions and got asked if I had considered ADHD or learning disabilities. I hadn't at all. But it led me to do some reading and we did get neuropsych testing done - and DC ws diagnosed with ADHD inattentive, slow processing speed, and a mild math disability.

Second. I think you did coach your son through his anger/frustration, but I think there is a lot going on here in the family. Yes, he caused an injury. But also yes - his sister threw something at him first and she didn't get any punishment at all. Yes he is older. Yes he is only 3 and was bleeding. But from his perspective, how on earth is it fair he gets a timeout and she gets love and comfort from you? From his perspective, that is SO UNFAIR. (heck, from my perspective I think it's little unfair too). I think it's possible that he's become the problem child, and it might be clear to him that he's harder to be with and less fun for you parents than his little sister is. He's probably a little jealous and really struggling with so much. SO for a kid that struggles with big emotions, he has to struggle with sharing mommy and (a too-busy) daddy, constantly feeling like he's the bad kid compared to his sister, loving her and hating having her around all at the same time. That's A LOT.

So their, I'd really advise some sort of family therapy. I would encourage you to think of this as a family problem and not a DS problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to say this but you sound like a bit of a drama queen yourself. Maybe he gets it from you. My take on your example is that you were really in his face. Did you really need to drag out of him sentence by sentence why he was in trouble? Of course he knows why -- he's 8, not 3. That might be why he "resists suggestions." You sound way over-involved in his emotions. Also, I'm not a perfect parent BY FAR but I would have addressed right away with him that you saw his sister throw the toy at him and that was wrong and you can understand why he'd be angry about that --anyone would be. (Were you just pretending when you said he's sitting there with furious tears streaming down his cheeks but you had no idea why?) His response -- to throw the toy back -- was what was wrong, not his feelings. Affirm his angry feelings and also emphasize that he's way older than his sister and needs to use bigger kid coping mechanisms than a 3 year old does.

Again, I am far from a perfect parent, but maybe you could emphasize how much bigger he is, and try to foster a more nurturing, big-brother type of response in him. Let him teach his sister things, protect her, etc.

My two cents.

Wow, you really wanted to get that insult out in front, didn't you? As for the rest of it, I think you're reading in a bit that wasn't there. I don't believe I said I had no idea why he was crying, but perhaps I misstated something, so please show me. I had a very strong sense as to why, but I also like to give him some room to express things himself instead of presuming I know everything about his inner emotions, because it's always possible I'm wrong or even just a little off base. I also never said his feelings were wrong, that's something I'm always very clear about with him, that we may not be able to control our emotions, but we're responsible for controlling what we do with them. He can certainly be angry with his three-year-old sister, I would be too, but that doesn't mean he can hit her in the face with a toy.

What are you looking for, OP? You are a great parent, and the problem is that your DS is screwed up in some fundamental way that has nothing to do with your perfect parenting? There, you got it.

I haver an over-emotional kid, too. I am also very emotional. Makes things difficult for us. I'm just trying to give you my take on what you wrote. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. There is a lot going on here.

First, it seems pretty clear that he has a lot going on, ands trouble managing it all. When my child was 7 I posted some roughly similar questions and got asked if I had considered ADHD or learning disabilities. I hadn't at all. But it led me to do some reading and we did get neuropsych testing done - and DC ws diagnosed with ADHD inattentive, slow processing speed, and a mild math disability.

Second. I think you did coach your son through his anger/frustration, but I think there is a lot going on here in the family. Yes, he caused an injury. But also yes - his sister threw something at him first and she didn't get any punishment at all. Yes he is older. Yes she is only 3 and was bleeding. But from his perspective, how on earth is it fair he gets a timeout and she gets love and comfort from you? From his perspective, that is SO UNFAIR. (heck, from my perspective I think it's little unfair too). I think it's possible that he's become the problem child, and it might be clear to him that he's harder to be with and less fun for you parents than his little sister is. He's probably a little jealous and really struggling with so much. So for a kid that struggles with big emotions, he has to struggle with sharing mommy and (a too-busy) daddy, constantly feeling like he's the bad kid compared to his sister, loving her and hating having her around all at the same time. That's A LOT.

So third, I'd really advise some sort of family therapy. I would encourage you to think of this as a family problem and not a DS problem.

Wow there are a lot of typos here. I corrected them above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to say this but you sound like a bit of a drama queen yourself. Maybe he gets it from you. My take on your example is that you were really in his face. Did you really need to drag out of him sentence by sentence why he was in trouble? Of course he knows why -- he's 8, not 3. That might be why he "resists suggestions." You sound way over-involved in his emotions. Also, I'm not a perfect parent BY FAR but I would have addressed right away with him that you saw his sister throw the toy at him and that was wrong and you can understand why he'd be angry about that --anyone would be. (Were you just pretending when you said he's sitting there with furious tears streaming down his cheeks but you had no idea why?) His response -- to throw the toy back -- was what was wrong, not his feelings. Affirm his angry feelings and also emphasize that he's way older than his sister and needs to use bigger kid coping mechanisms than a 3 year old does.

Again, I am far from a perfect parent, but maybe you could emphasize how much bigger he is, and try to foster a more nurturing, big-brother type of response in him. Let him teach his sister things, protect her, etc.

My two cents.

Wow, you really wanted to get that insult out in front, didn't you? As for the rest of it, I think you're reading in a bit that wasn't there. I don't believe I said I had no idea why he was crying, but perhaps I misstated something, so please show me. I had a very strong sense as to why, but I also like to give him some room to express things himself instead of presuming I know everything about his inner emotions, because it's always possible I'm wrong or even just a little off base. I also never said his feelings were wrong, that's something I'm always very clear about with him, that we may not be able to control our emotions, but we're responsible for controlling what we do with them. He can certainly be angry with his three-year-old sister, I would be too, but that doesn't mean he can hit her in the face with a toy.

What are you looking for, OP? You are a great parent, and the problem is that your DS is screwed up in some fundamental way that has nothing to do with your perfect parenting? There, you got it.

I haver an over-emotional kid, too. I am also very emotional. Makes things difficult for us. I'm just trying to give you my take on what you wrote. Best of luck.

If you reread my original post, you'll see that what I was looking for was perspective from people who'd either gotten outside parenting help for themselves or gotten professional assistance for their child, and how that worked for them. I didn't actually ask for people to dump all over my parenting based on a single anecdote that's hardly representative of every struggle we have with him, especially not parroting the same tips I can read on any generic parenting blog as if I'm too dumb to think of Google. I realize this is DCUM so people are going to respond however they want regardless of what an OP asks for, but that doesn't mean those responses are actually useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to say this but you sound like a bit of a drama queen yourself. Maybe he gets it from you. My take on your example is that you were really in his face. Did you really need to drag out of him sentence by sentence why he was in trouble? Of course he knows why -- he's 8, not 3. That might be why he "resists suggestions." You sound way over-involved in his emotions. Also, I'm not a perfect parent BY FAR but I would have addressed right away with him that you saw his sister throw the toy at him and that was wrong and you can understand why he'd be angry about that --anyone would be. (Were you just pretending when you said he's sitting there with furious tears streaming down his cheeks but you had no idea why?) His response -- to throw the toy back -- was what was wrong, not his feelings. Affirm his angry feelings and also emphasize that he's way older than his sister and needs to use bigger kid coping mechanisms than a 3 year old does.

Again, I am far from a perfect parent, but maybe you could emphasize how much bigger he is, and try to foster a more nurturing, big-brother type of response in him. Let him teach his sister things, protect her, etc.

My two cents.

Wow, you really wanted to get that insult out in front, didn't you? As for the rest of it, I think you're reading in a bit that wasn't there. I don't believe I said I had no idea why he was crying, but perhaps I misstated something, so please show me. I had a very strong sense as to why, but I also like to give him some room to express things himself instead of presuming I know everything about his inner emotions, because it's always possible I'm wrong or even just a little off base. I also never said his feelings were wrong, that's something I'm always very clear about with him, that we may not be able to control our emotions, but we're responsible for controlling what we do with them. He can certainly be angry with his three-year-old sister, I would be too, but that doesn't mean he can hit her in the face with a toy.

What are you looking for, OP? You are a great parent, and the problem is that your DS is screwed up in some fundamental way that has nothing to do with your perfect parenting? There, you got it.

I haver an over-emotional kid, too. I am also very emotional. Makes things difficult for us. I'm just trying to give you my take on what you wrote. Best of luck.

If you reread my original post, you'll see that what I was looking for was perspective from people who'd either gotten outside parenting help for themselves or gotten professional assistance for their child, and how that worked for them. I didn't actually ask for people to dump all over my parenting based on a single anecdote that's hardly representative of every struggle we have with him, especially not parroting the same tips I can read on any generic parenting blog as if I'm too dumb to think of Google. I realize this is DCUM so people are going to respond however they want regardless of what an OP asks for, but that doesn't mean those responses are actually useful.

Once again, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love my 8-year-old son to the ends of the earth, but I feel like his challenges are beyond what I know how to help with anymore. He has these moments where he's an amazing kid and I'm blown away by his kindness and maturity, but most of the time he ranges from just generally uncooperative/resistant to full on rude, defiant, throws epic tantrums when asked to do something he doesn't want to do (or not given something he wants) or if he gets in trouble, etc. Everything is a battle with him, no matter how small. My understanding is that it's not nearly as bad at school as it is at home, but it definitely happens and seems to be having an impact on him socially there (trouble making friends, being left out of play dates, etc.). I feel like I've tried everything I know, and I don't know if my parenting abilities are just too limited and I'm the one who needs parenting help, or if he needs professional help that's beyond what a parent can provide. I'm feeling completely beaten down by this, it seems like every bit of my energy goes into just managing to get through the day with him, I don't have anything left to put in any extra that might help him learn to manage this better. Has anyone been here? What did you do? Did it help?

Initially, I immediately thought "ADHD" because my nine year old DS has it and sounds similar with emotional regulation issues. However, when you described the incident with the toy, I think your son showed a lot of self control, frankly. Obviously, as you stated, his desire was to throw a huge fit, but he didn't- and even though you had to ask him several times, he still went to his room. That is promising

When you talk with your son's teachers ask about his capabilities with the following:
1. Academic issues- lags, comprehension, reading and math difficulties
2. Transitioning between tasks
3. Staying on task himself and not disrupting his peers
4. Social issues- interrupting, monopolizing conversations, maintaining topic, body language
5. Of course emotional self regulation seems to be an issue bit more so at home. Even with ADHD most kids try to hold it together at school due to anxiety- so that's pretty normal.

Their answers will probably give you a clearer picture of your DS's overall functioning and whether you may want to consider an evaluation. If you determine that your DS is typical but intense and defiant, I suggest Kazdin's book. It works great with typical kids and kids with special needs. You may also look at Ross Greene's the Explosive Child.

[Anonymous]

I think he felt it was very unfair that his sister who started the fight - didn't get punished.