What if your child, who was qualified for their "reach" or "stretch" school, chose not to apply?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, first, I think 3 hours is a pretty good amount of time for a college visit.

Secondly, if she's not feeling it, let her be. She'll be the one living at the school for 4 years. Going away to college is hard enough when it's a school you're gung-ho about. Now imagine being at a school that you weren't 'feeling', didn't even want to apply to but Mom made you go under the threat of not paying.

Thirdly, please please PLEASE parents stop with the "I'm paying so I get to dictate where my child goes." It's HER experience--not yours.

Let her be.

And please parents stop trying to live vicariously through your children. You had your turn. Let your children live out theirs.

Thank you all for the good advice. I may have thought "I am paying for it", but it would never occur to me to say that to DC as a threat, or otherwise. Aside from my feelings on the matter (and you are right to caution me not to live through my child), I do not want DC to carry around any regrets later on. She has demonstrated often that she can be quite competitive herself, and I suspect that she may have second thoughts -- or worse, regrets -- when the classmates/colleagues she worked so hard with for four years start to get their admission letters from said schools. I suppose that I should allow the college counselors and teachers, who have strong feelings about DC's potential, to work her through this particular decision.

It's been my experience that no one regrets where they attended undergrad! The experience is so full and you grow so much, meet so many lifelong friends that no one ever looks back and says, "You know I really wish I would've gone ivy". I've just never seen it happen.

I did not go ivy undergrad. In fact, I went to THEE 'worst' school ever. It had open enrollment and every person who applied was accepted. (No exaggeration.) I LOVED the experience and look back on it fondly. Approx. 5 years after graduation I was talking to some who went ivy undergrad and they raved about their college experiences as well. It was then that I realized it doesn't matter where you go, every young person loves their undergrad experience. (If it's the traditional on-campus situation. The kid who has to work to pay his way through school while raising kids will feel differently.)

And I doubt DC will care about her peers getting acceptances to schools she didn't even apply to!

I actually hated my college years, and my choice -- a very good university right outside the Ivy League -- was, in retrospect, a terrible fit for me. My husband, siblings, and brother-in-law all attended graduate school (medicine, law, public policy) at the same university and absolutely LOVED it!

[Anonymous]

One of my kids went to Yale and the other visited and said he wouldn't apply. When I asked him to articulate why he said he did not like the Gothic architecture and he did not like the fact that in a lecture hall of a 150 desks not one was for lefties. Maybe those sound like stupid reasons to you, but they made sense to him as indicators of why he didn't want to be there. He ended up somewhere else and was very happy. It's the kid's decision, and whether the kid can fully articulate the reasons or not, they are there.

And then we could discuss the fact that Harvard undergrads are mostly taught by TAs...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would conclude that it wasn't the student's reach school, it was the parents' reach school. Let the kid apply to the very good other schools he or she was interested in, and let well enough alone.

I would never force my kids to go to Princeton (DH's alma mater) or Harvard (mine). They can go somewhere THEY want to attend.

NP here. No offense meant to any one poster in particular here. But I have a hard time believing that most parent (legacies also) with a child who turns out to be the class valedictorian with the 2400 SAT, and the amazing, recruitable talents, would not at least want or desire their child to apply and keep their options open. Remember, OP is not asking about attending, but simply about applying . Also, 16 and 17-year old young adults still need a little bit of guidance and direction when it comes to big and important life decisions. What OP has described is essentially a completely uninformed decision. Imagine that your spouse came home to say, "Honey, I toured the campus of this great corporation, went to an information session, and I plan to leave my current job tomorrow and move us near there." A college tour, which includes an information session of about 1.5 hour, plus a walking tour of about 1.5 hour, is simply not enough to make a decision without something more. Did your child study the programs and curriculum of the universities? Did your child consider how the programs at these places will further support and develop their outside interests in music, the arts, athletics? Did your child speak to current professors or students in their intended area of study? I am not saying that you have to do these things, but I think that the "the class valedictorian with the 2400 SAT, and the amazing, recruitable talents" would be wrong to exclude four top "reach" schools without more information -- and on the basis of only one visit. I would suggest that she discuss the options with her college counselors, and ask them to put her in touch with some of the high school's alums who attended her reaches and other choices as well.

This is a valid point. Not only does OP's lack info, but OPs kid may change her mind about what she wants. DD completely changed her intended major - and with it, her college choices - between April of junior year and April of senior year. I wouldn't encourage a kid to rule out any college at this poi

[Anonymous]

... point. At least let her wait a few more months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids went to Yale and the other visited and said he wouldn't apply. When I asked him to articulate why he said he did not like the Gothic architecture and he did not like the fact that in a lecture hall of a 150 desks not one was for lefties. Maybe those sound like stupid reasons to you, but they made sense to him as indicators of why he didn't want to be there. He ended up somewhere else and was very happy. It's the kid's decision, and whether the kid can fully articulate the reasons or not, they are there.

And then we could discuss the fact that Harvard undergrads are mostly taught by TAs...

NP here again. But see, PP, you had one child who did apply Yale, and decided to attend. What if that child, clearly one of the best and brightest of her or his generation, and with the intellectual gifts and the additional talents to go anywhere she or he wanted, had refused to apply to Yale out of hand? She or he would have given up an opportunity which they loved. Understandably your other child did not want to attend Yale, but perhaps less because of Gothic architecture and rightie desks, and more likely because of the pressure of sibling rivalry with a "brilliant' older brother or sister. I assume that you are being modest about your younger son, and --given that he had the potential for Yale -- that the "somewhere else" he attended was Princeton, or Stanford, or Harvard? In any case, hearing from parents whose exceptional children applied to and attended the very top schools that OP should "relax" and let her own top student forego a similar opportunity, is hardly reassuring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would conclude that it wasn't the student's reach school, it was the parents' reach school. Let the kid apply to the very good other schools he or she was interested in, and let well enough alone.

I would never force my kids to go to Princeton (DH's alma mater) or Harvard (mine). They can go somewhere THEY want to attend.

NP here. No offense meant to any one poster in particular here. But I have a hard time believing that most parent (legacies also) with a child who turns out to be the class valedictorian with the 2400 SAT, and the amazing, recruitable talents, would not at least want or desire their child to apply and keep their options open. Remember, OP is not asking about attending, but simply about applying . Also, 16 and 17-year old young adults still need a little bit of guidance and direction when it comes to big and important life decisions. What OP has described is essentially a completely uninformed decision. Imagine that your spouse came home to say, "Honey, I toured the campus of this great corporation, went to an information session, and I plan to leave my current job tomorrow and move us near there." A college tour, which includes an information session of about 1.5 hour, plus a walking tour of about 1.5 hour, is simply not enough to make a decision without something more. Did your child study the programs and curriculum of the universities? Did your child consider how the programs at these places will further support and develop their outside interests in music, the arts, athletics? Did your child speak to current professors or students in their intended area of study? I am not saying that you have to do these things, but I think that the "the class valedictorian with the 2400 SAT, and the amazing, recruitable talents" would be wrong to exclude four top "reach" schools without more information -- and on the basis of only one visit. I would suggest that she discuss the options with her college counselors, and ask them to put her in touch with some of the high school's alums who attended her reaches and other choices as well.

Here's where this argument falls down for me. If you TRULY believe that there are dozens (scores, hundreds, insert your number here) of top-notch colleges out there, and if you TRULY believe that your child will be launched well from any of them, and if you have been avoiding the Tiger Mom syndrome and have been supporting your child's well-being and interests over Striving For The Top, etc., then you cannot also with a straight face argue that they should apply to HYP just in case. If you make this argument, then you are tacitly agreeing with the notion that HYP are special and that your child should go there if she can, even if she doesn't think the school would be a good fit for her. I actually think this kind of pushing is very undermining.

Every other school that the kid likes or doesn't like is based on exactly the same 3 hour visit. Why is it okay to reject, say, Williams or MIT based on a 3-hour visit but not Princeton? Why the double standard?

Personally, I find this girl's attitude and confidence to be very refreshing. This girl will be just as impressive going to and graduating from any number of colleges that are not HYP. If she doesn't need this kind of validation, why does her mother?

Regarding providing direction and guidance to 17 and 18 year olds: This is not the same as a parent who says: "I want you to apply to W&M and UVA even though you aren't sold on them, because I want to make sure you have a top-notch option that we can afford." It's not the same as saying, "I know you love these 5 elite SLACs, but I insist you find 3 safety schools to apply to that you would be okay with attending."

[Anonymous]

She's a teenager.

Insist that she applied to at least two to three of those reaches and make a good faith effort in the interviews.

Tell her you'll discuss all her options once she gets her acceptances, but it is her choice.

Then, if she gets in, encourage her to travel for an admitted students weekend at one of the reaches.

I thought I wanted to go to a less prestigious school, too. You know why? Because they did a major selling job on me because they HAVE to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids went to Yale and the other visited and said he wouldn't apply. When I asked him to articulate why he said he did not like the Gothic architecture and he did not like the fact that in a lecture hall of a 150 desks not one was for lefties. Maybe those sound like stupid reasons to you, but they made sense to him as indicators of why he didn't want to be there. He ended up somewhere else and was very happy. It's the kid's decision, and whether the kid can fully articulate the reasons or not, they are there.

And then we could discuss the fact that Harvard undergrads are mostly taught by TAs...

NP here again. But see, PP, you had one child who did apply Yale, and decided to attend. What if that child, clearly one of the best and brightest of her or his generation, and with the intellectual gifts and the additional talents to go anywhere she or he wanted, had refused to apply to Yale out of hand? She or he would have given up an opportunity which they loved. Understandably your other child did not want to attend Yale, but perhaps less because of Gothic architecture and rightie desks, and more likely because of the pressure of sibling rivalry with a "brilliant' older brother or sister. I assume that you are being modest about your younger son, and --given that he had the potential for Yale -- that the "somewhere else" he attended was Princeton, or Stanford, or Harvard? In any case, hearing from parents whose exceptional children applied to and attended the very top schools that OP should "relax" and let her own top student forego a similar opportunity, is hardly reassuring.

But you talk like this is a zero sum game. It's not. If Yale child did not go to Yale, she would have gone somewhere else and likely loved that instead. You also talk like everyone who goes to Yale loves it. But that's not true either. (In fact, I know half a dozen Harvard grads and *none* of them loved it.)

This HYP fetishism is just ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

So, really it appears that applying to HYP is more important to the parents than the kid. Sad. Sad. Sad.

I wanted my son to go to Annapolis. Why not? It's prestigious, good education and free of charge. However, he did not want to go to a military school and chose a SLAC instead. Am I disappointed? No. I do not live my life vicariously through my children. Grow up parents!

[Anonymous]

I am the OP. A previous poster mentioned age, and that is a factor here as my daughter will be applying to college when she is only 16 -- although she will be 17 by the time she begins.

Dpes that make any difference in the "impulse" decision-making calculus?

I grew up in a family where my executive father moved our family every 3-4 years to pursue a series of promotions and opportunities within the company, including some abroad. At the point where my sister had finished her second year of high school (about 16), my dad told us we were moving again, and my sister begged him not to because she wanted the continuity of a high school that she loved. In retrospect, we did not need to move for his continued success, but we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's a teenager.

Insist that she applied to at least two to three of those reaches and make a good faith effort in the interviews.

Tell her you'll discuss all her options once she gets her acceptances, but it is her choice.

Then, if she gets in, encourage her to travel for an admitted students weekend at one of the reaches.

I thought I wanted to go to a less prestigious school, too. You know why? Because they did a major selling job on me because they HAVE to.

++, and Double +

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP. A previous poster mentioned age, and that is a factor here as my daughter will be applying to college when she is only 16 -- although she will be 17 by the time she begins.

Dpes that make any difference in the "impulse" decision-making calculus?

I grew up in a family where my executive father moved our family every 3-4 years to pursue a series of promotions and opportunities within the company, including some abroad. At the point where my sister had finished her second year of high school (about 16), my dad told us we were moving again, and my sister begged him not to because she wanted the continuity of a high school that she loved. In retrospect, we did not need to move for his continued success, but we did.

No, her age does not matter to me.

Look, if your super top-notch kid did not want to apply to any Ivies, and she also did not want to apply to MIT or Northwestern or Stanford or Williams or Vanderbilt or Duke or Rice, etc etc, then I'd start being a little concerned about what was going on in her head. But if your super top-notch kid doesn't want to apply to HYP but loves Brown and Chicago and Berkeley or Wellesley and Barnard or Amherst and Middlebury, and has the chops to be admitted to any of these, then what exactly are you worried about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's a teenager.

Insist that she applied to at least two to three of those reaches and make a good faith effort in the interviews.

Tell her you'll discuss all her options once she gets her acceptances, but it is her choice.

Then, if she gets in, encourage her to travel for an admitted students weekend at one of the reaches.

I thought I wanted to go to a less prestigious school, too. You know why? Because they did a major selling job on me because they HAVE to.

++, and Double +

But what's wrong with that? Some kids really soar when they are the big fish in smaller ponds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids went to Yale and the other visited and said he wouldn't apply. When I asked him to articulate why he said he did not like the Gothic architecture and he did not like the fact that in a lecture hall of a 150 desks not one was for lefties. Maybe those sound like stupid reasons to you, but they made sense to him as indicators of why he didn't want to be there. He ended up somewhere else and was very happy. It's the kid's decision, and whether the kid can fully articulate the reasons or not, they are there.

And then we could discuss the fact that Harvard undergrads are mostly taught by TAs...

NP here again. But see, PP, you had one child who did apply Yale, and decided to attend. What if that child, clearly one of the best and brightest of her or his generation, and with the intellectual gifts and the additional talents to go anywhere she or he wanted, had refused to apply to Yale out of hand? She or he would have given up an opportunity which they loved. Understandably your other child did not want to attend Yale, but perhaps less because of Gothic architecture and rightie desks, and more likely because of the pressure of sibling rivalry with a "brilliant' older brother or sister. I assume that you are being modest about your younger son, and --given that he had the potential for Yale -- that the "somewhere else" he attended was Princeton, or Stanford, or Harvard? In any case, hearing from parents whose exceptional children applied to and attended the very top schools that OP should "relax" and let her own top student forego a similar opportunity, is hardly reassuring.

But you talk like this is a zero sum game. It's not. If Yale child did not go to Yale, she would have gone somewhere else and likely loved that instead. You also talk like everyone who goes to Yale loves it. But that's not true either. (In fact, I know half a dozen Harvard grads and *none* of them loved it.)

This HYP fetishism is just ridiculous.

Perhaps you are right PP, but your younger son ended up attending Harvard didn't he? It is very easy for a parent whose two children attended Yale and Harvard to dismiss OP's desire for her daughter's achievement as simply a "fetishism".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please let this one go.

-Mom to 3 college grads

What did your three college graduates decide to do?

One toured HYP and opted out of applying. I thought he'd like Stanford, but he found it didn't have the energy he wanted. He did apply and got into Berkeley, but he ended up taking a full ride to a very good state university where he got two degrees (B.A. and B.S.) and tons of attention and opportunities.

Another only wanted to follow her swimming passion and opted for a private DIII school in PA that offered a decent scholarship. She didn't apply to many other colleges.

The third applied primarily to big DI schools and loved her experience at one of them, but like her older sister, she had no interest in HYP.

I have one more to go.