DH, 50, lost out on another job, feeling depressed and hopeless

[Anonymous]

I'm 48 and was laid off when I was 45. It took 6 months to get a new job. I had 22 years experience in my field and had always been very sought-after. However, some of the problems stem from the fact that my experience was just that, on the job experience. I knew things that were focused around my previous jobs. One of the things that helped a lot was going back for more updated training. I took a couple of one week IT courses that helped refresh my skills in more modern technology and then had that to help augment my experience. One of the problems with being at the older end of the work force is that you may be out-of-touch with the current training and despite all of your relevant work experience, you are missing some of the more recent advances. I would suggest that your husband look into his background and see if there are any areas of training that he can take to refresh his knowledge that would be helpful. These types of updates can often make the difference between finalist and hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband in very low paying go nowhere job...networking fruitless...I too feel hopeless, and when I make suggestions he just storms off...this has been going on for 10 years...
I often push it to the back of my mind...denial.

what do you do to earn money for the family?

Really, PP, just really...

I think it's a legitimate question...50% of the workforce are women today. Even if his was/is their main income, it would help relieve his burden/stress if she pitches in during tough times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has your DH worked with a career coach or recruiter? THat could help depending on his field.

OP. DH has contacted a number of headhunters, but he has not worked with a career coach. He looked into career coaching, but it seemed mostly a waste of time and money. He has lots of management experience, but like a PP, it's mostly at one company. Please suggest someone in the DC area if you know a good one. He's a mid-level manager making in the low six figures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 48 and was laid off when I was 45. It took 6 months to get a new job. I had 22 years experience in my field and had always been very sought-after. However, some of the problems stem from the fact that my experience was just that, on the job experience. I knew things that were focused around my previous jobs. One of the things that helped a lot was going back for more updated training. I took a couple of one week IT courses that helped refresh my skills in more modern technology and then had that to help augment my experience. One of the problems with being at the older end of the work force is that you may be out-of-touch with the current training and despite all of your relevant work experience, you are missing some of the more recent advances. I would suggest that your husband look into his background and see if there are any areas of training that he can take to refresh his knowledge that would be helpful. These types of updates can often make the difference between finalist and hired.

OP again. I'll ask DH about this. He doesn't think he needs any more training, and he's not someone who likes taking classes (unlike me, I love taking classes!). Plus they tend to be expensive, and we're worried about money now. But it's a great idea, so I'll push him a little on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there something else in the same company he could do? Like a lateral transfer?

I don't know what industry he's in or whether it would hurt more than help, but I might contact one if the previous interviewers who gave the job to someone else, and reach out for lunch maybe, or just a phone call, and say he really appreciated the opportunity to interview with them, and wondered if they could provide some insight into his skill set. Is there something he should tweak? Get further training on? Does he lack managerial experience? Anything offputting about his work style? there are four very different generations wirking in the workforce right now and they have very different work styles. if hes coming acriss all BabyBoomer when most places have a Gen X culture, that could be a problem. Normally its not a bug problem, but in tight job markets it could make the subtle difference.

Or reach out to a work colleague he trusts to try and get similar feedback.

This is definitely something I've wondered about. I'm in my 50s, so I don't know the GenX work style (what are the other two?), so can't help DH there.

Can you define the difference between the work styles?

Two of the jobs he was the same age as the person doing the hiring, and he felt that worked to his advantage because he hit it off with both of them, but perhaps they felt threatened since they were the same age?

One of the jobs he was ovequalified for, but he would have taken it just to get out of his miserable work situation. The fourth job (this past week), he was completely qualified for, all interviews went well, so he doesn't understand what could have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course there is hope!
My DH is 51 and just found a job with difficulty after nearly two years.

He had applied to dozens of positions, most of which did not contact him: probably in part because he has an unusual background and is overqualified, probably also due to hiring freezes/reticence. He made the shortlist for those who did, but was never chosen until a few month ago. He also could not use his network, which is mainly in Europe.

I may add that he looks quite ten years younger than his age, and that I do not think appearance is the direct issue here. Rather, in these difficult economic times where jobs are scarce, an experienced person is perhaps not as desirable as before. People glance at the resume and think: "Yikes! Too expensive. Let's get the job done a little more shoddily by a junior".

It was a painful time, financially, psychologically, on all fronts. Our lives where put on hold for 18 months and I became quite paranoid about weekly expenses, let alone making any kind of long-range plans. I cannot work in this country, so we just conserved money as much as we could, and felt very lucky that we had a bit put by. Uncertainty plays with your mind to an unholy degree!
I completely sympathize with the strain it puts on your family and your marriage. Even though I had input on DH's cover letters and all professional correspondance, I had to walk on eggshells sometimes because the pressure on him was just too great. This is a person who used to work in the ICU! Nerves of steel. But a year and a half sans job will tell on anyone...

Your DH is well-regarded. He has a network that can scout for posts and recommend him. Above all, the more interviews he has, the more confident and in control he will appear. My DH made use of a very practical book called Landing the Job You Want: How to Have the Best Job Interview of Your Life
http://www.amazon.com/Landing-Job-You-Want-Interview/dp/0609804081
He told me it was extremely useful and changed the way he described his past experience during interviews. Borrow it from the library.

You DH does not need to network like crazy if he feels it is not helpful right now. On the other hand keeping up contacts and seeing old business associates will help him stay alert to changes in his field and make him feel he's still part of his industry.

Cut out all unnecessary expense. Are you sure the therapist is working out for him? On the other hand, regular exercise like a morning jog is a great mood booster. Sex is great too, even though you might not be in the mood if he's grumpy

Big hug to both of you! Keep at it.
I'm sure it will work out.

OP. Thank you so much for posting this! It does give me hope! And thanks for the book suggestion. I will run out and get it (from the library!) and make sure DH reads it. If he won't read it I will!

I've tried to get him to exercise, but he won't do it. I've started exercising regularly with my kids just to help maintain my sanity. I'd hoped DH would follow suit, but not so far. His therapist seems OK, but he just started a few weeks ago. I think it's good for him to have another person to talk to outside of the family. He's really embarrassed by his inability to find a better job. Humiliated is more like it.

Curious: Does your DH know why he was finally chosen? My DH can't understand why he wasn't offered all four positions he interviewed for. He felt completely confident about each, thought all interviews went well, and in the end, they chose someone else, generally younger, cheaper, no doubt. But he has nothing on the horizon, and nothing left to do but go back to his contacts for the third or fourth time. Many of the people he's been speaking with have told him they don't have any jobs, but he's not sure if that's true or they are putting him off. This most recent job he lost out on he was recruited for the interview process (through a connection), and he was told repeatedly that his background was very impressive, etc. They didn't choose him, though, and DH is just baffled by this. As am I.

What was the difference that made the employers hire your DH finally?

22:21 here.
The same thing happened to my DH: recruiters always said they were extremely impressed by his resume, DH was always confident he was their top choice, and... no offer. What is surprising is that many of these jobs DH applied to are still open, after one year! I think they have a large pool of applicants to choose from and maybe are not encouraged to hire quickly, given the slump and lack of funding, so positions are not getting filled... on the other hand, I know a few posts were filled by younger, less qualified applicants, so that clearly indicates senior professionals are too expensive. Finally, I have grudgingly come to realize that being already out of work is not attractive to recruiters, which is sad. That's usually the time when people try to apply for jobs!

DH was finally chosen because of specific reasons: the boss wanted a nearly impossible combination of skills, which he finally found in DH, and the boss was also under pressure to fill the vacancy because the previous person had left before the contract ended. DH had to accept a 10% pay cut compared to his previous salary, and we are under very tight cash flow right now. However, what matters most is that DH is back in the game and can hoist himself up from here!

Regarding contacts, I can't tell you how many times DH had to ask the same people over and over again for letters of recommendations in the past few years. I was embarrassed. To ease their pain, he actually wrote them himself and asked his colleagues to look them over and sign! DH is currently in elaborate talks for another position down the road, in which references will have more weight than before. When recruiters notify him that they will be contacting his references, he sends an email to his colleagues to prime them about the exact nature of the post and even for one key person what exact arguments to advance in his favor... hopefully all of this works out, because this new post is much more appropriate for him (and hopefully will pay more!).

There is no shame in being out of work. It's not your DH's fault, and he must try not to feel humiliated, because that is an emotion which will work against him. Your DH has done so much in his life already, he has so much to be proud of, and so much he can bring to a new job! Hold on to that thought!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 48 and was laid off when I was 45. It took 6 months to get a new job. I had 22 years experience in my field and had always been very sought-after. However, some of the problems stem from the fact that my experience was just that, on the job experience. I knew things that were focused around my previous jobs. One of the things that helped a lot was going back for more updated training. I took a couple of one week IT courses that helped refresh my skills in more modern technology and then had that to help augment my experience. One of the problems with being at the older end of the work force is that you may be out-of-touch with the current training and despite all of your relevant work experience, you are missing some of the more recent advances. I would suggest that your husband look into his background and see if there are any areas of training that he can take to refresh his knowledge that would be helpful. These types of updates can often make the difference between finalist and hired.

OP again. I'll ask DH about this. He doesn't think he needs any more training, and he's not someone who likes taking classes (unlike me, I love taking classes!). Plus they tend to be expensive, and we're worried about money now. But it's a great idea, so I'll push him a little on this.

It depends on how much and how recently he's had training. If he's taken several classes/courses over the last 2-3 years, he's probably right. If he's taken one class in the last 5 years, he's most likely wrong. When people are hiring, often the decision between two good/qualified candidates, especially more senior positions, is how versed they are in more recent changes to the industry. When hiring, they want to make sure that they are bringing someone in with not only skills, but also insight into what's current. I know that money can be tight (remember, I was laid off for 6 months, which cut our household income in half and we were using savings to augment my wife's salary) but honestly, one class was one two week paycheck. I would have broken even if I took the class and got a job two weeks earlier than if I hadn't taken the class. Think of it from that perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

they chose someone else, generally younger, cheaper, no doubt

From what it sounds like, you might add "less threatening" to your list. That may be part of what is going on here.

OP here again (just reading through the responses -- thanks to everyone!)

This is something DH is wondering about. But what can he do about it? He can't dumb down? (Edit his resume? Pretend he doesn't know things he does know?)

As he's been rehashing the many interviews he had for the most recent rejection, he was realizing that because of his qualifications, DH's responsibilities would have been almost identical to those of the person doing the hiring, who has no experience doing the type of work the job requires, but oversees the department (for some reason).

It's a conundrum: If DH presents himself as totally qualified for the job, he disqualifies himself because he's intimidating!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course there is hope!
My DH is 51 and just found a job with difficulty after nearly two years.

He had applied to dozens of positions, most of which did not contact him: probably in part because he has an unusual background and is overqualified, probably also due to hiring freezes/reticence. He made the shortlist for those who did, but was never chosen until a few month ago. He also could not use his network, which is mainly in Europe.

I may add that he looks quite ten years younger than his age, and that I do not think appearance is the direct issue here. Rather, in these difficult economic times where jobs are scarce, an experienced person is perhaps not as desirable as before. People glance at the resume and think: "Yikes! Too expensive. Let's get the job done a little more shoddily by a junior".

It was a painful time, financially, psychologically, on all fronts. Our lives where put on hold for 18 months and I became quite paranoid about weekly expenses, let alone making any kind of long-range plans. I cannot work in this country, so we just conserved money as much as we could, and felt very lucky that we had a bit put by. Uncertainty plays with your mind to an unholy degree!
I completely sympathize with the strain it puts on your family and your marriage. Even though I had input on DH's cover letters and all professional correspondance, I had to walk on eggshells sometimes because the pressure on him was just too great. This is a person who used to work in the ICU! Nerves of steel. But a year and a half sans job will tell on anyone...

Your DH is well-regarded. He has a network that can scout for posts and recommend him. Above all, the more interviews he has, the more confident and in control he will appear. My DH made use of a very practical book called Landing the Job You Want: How to Have the Best Job Interview of Your Life
http://www.amazon.com/Landing-Job-You-Want-Interview/dp/0609804081
He told me it was extremely useful and changed the way he described his past experience during interviews. Borrow it from the library.

You DH does not need to network like crazy if he feels it is not helpful right now. On the other hand keeping up contacts and seeing old business associates will help him stay alert to changes in his field and make him feel he's still part of his industry.

Cut out all unnecessary expense. Are you sure the therapist is working out for him? On the other hand, regular exercise like a morning jog is a great mood booster. Sex is great too, even though you might not be in the mood if he's grumpy

Big hug to both of you! Keep at it.
I'm sure it will work out.

OP. Thank you so much for posting this! It does give me hope! And thanks for the book suggestion. I will run out and get it (from the library!) and make sure DH reads it. If he won't read it I will!

I've tried to get him to exercise, but he won't do it. I've started exercising regularly with my kids just to help maintain my sanity. I'd hoped DH would follow suit, but not so far. His therapist seems OK, but he just started a few weeks ago. I think it's good for him to have another person to talk to outside of the family. He's really embarrassed by his inability to find a better job. Humiliated is more like it.

Curious: Does your DH know why he was finally chosen? My DH can't understand why he wasn't offered all four positions he interviewed for. He felt completely confident about each, thought all interviews went well, and in the end, they chose someone else, generally younger, cheaper, no doubt. But he has nothing on the horizon, and nothing left to do but go back to his contacts for the third or fourth time. Many of the people he's been speaking with have told him they don't have any jobs, but he's not sure if that's true or they are putting him off. This most recent job he lost out on he was recruited for the interview process (through a connection), and he was told repeatedly that his background was very impressive, etc. They didn't choose him, though, and DH is just baffled by this. As am I.

What was the difference that made the employers hire your DH finally?

22:21 here.
The same thing happened to my DH: recruiters always said they were extremely impressed by his resume, DH was always confident he was their top choice, and... no offer. What is surprising is that many of these jobs DH applied to are still open, after one year! I think they have a large pool of applicants to choose from and maybe are not encouraged to hire quickly, given the slump and lack of funding, so positions are not getting filled... on the other hand, I know a few posts were filled by younger, less qualified applicants, so that clearly indicates senior professionals are too expensive. Finally, I have grudgingly come to realize that being already out of work is not attractive to recruiters, which is sad. That's usually the time when people try to apply for jobs!

DH was finally chosen because of specific reasons: the boss wanted a nearly impossible combination of skills, which he finally found in DH, and the boss was also under pressure to fill the vacancy because the previous person had left before the contract ended. DH had to accept a 10% pay cut compared to his previous salary, and we are under very tight cash flow right now. However, what matters most is that DH is back in the game and can hoist himself up from here!

Regarding contacts, I can't tell you how many times DH had to ask the same people over and over again for letters of recommendations in the past few years. I was embarrassed. To ease their pain, he actually wrote them himself and asked his colleagues to look them over and sign! DH is currently in elaborate talks for another position down the road, in which references will have more weight than before. When recruiters notify him that they will be contacting his references, he sends an email to his colleagues to prime them about the exact nature of the post and even for one key person what exact arguments to advance in his favor... hopefully all of this works out, because this new post is much more appropriate for him (and hopefully will pay more!).

There is no shame in being out of work. It's not your DH's fault, and he must try not to feel humiliated, because that is an emotion which will work against him. Your DH has done so much in his life already, he has so much to be proud of, and so much he can bring to a new job! Hold on to that thought!

Thanks for posting this. Just to clarify, DH is not out of work, but he's very worried as there have been layoffs at his workplace, and he feels he's definitely on the list if there are more layoffs. His old bosses, who loved him, have been replaced by younger ones, who don't like him. He feels like all his loyalty to the company is gone, and that now that he's 50, the new bosses just want to get rid of him, even though he's not done anything wrong, except grow older. His hair dye looks fine, salt and pepper, nothing drastic, just a little less gray. It definitely makes him look younger! He knows he ought to have left the company years ago, when he was at the top of his game, but now it's too late and he's a has-been. He's very depressed, which does not help matters. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll show him this post when he's in the right mood.

[Anonymous]

This is so weird that we are all discussing this man's professional life in detail, but we are not even allowed to ask why the OP doesn't work.

It's not an insult. If you are very concerned, why not pick up a part time job? Single-handedly providing for a family can be very stressful. Maybe your DH would appreciate the effort you are making instead of always trying to work on him.

You said you were a SAHM for a while, but you could probably get a PT retail job or admin. job.

[Anonymous]

OP ~ you say that his work situation is miserable. It might happen that this will/can change. Is he doing all he can to fit in with the new bosses? Probably easier, in this economy, to work on the job he has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP ~ you say that his work situation is miserable. It might happen that this will/can change. Is he doing all he can to fit in with the new bosses? Probably easier, in this economy, to work on the job he has.

OP. He has tried to change his work situation, but it's pretty hopeless. His immediate boss likes him a lot, and his division is making money (others are losing money), so he's hanging in there, but the higher up bosses don't want him around so he has no hope of advancing (and he's underemployed as it is). It's an 'out with the old' sort of thing.

To the pp who asked why I don't work, there are very good reasons. But I didn't post to talk about me. I posted to ask for advice and empathy for my DH who is really suffering. I'm holding things together as best I can. If I worked part time it would make things worse. Plus, DH isn't out of work, he's just frustrated and confounded that he can't find another job at his age. He is unhappy where he is and needs to leave.

Thanks so much for all the supportive posts. I'd love to hear more success stories! It's amazing that a few kinds words from a stranger can make a difference, but they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is definitely something I've wondered about. I'm in my 50s, so I don't know the GenX work style (what are the other two?), so can't help DH there.

I'm surprised that someone thought that there were 4 generations working. I can think of 3: Baby Boomers (those born roughly 1946-1964), Generation X (sometimes call the Baby Busters, born roughly 1965-1984) and Generation Y/Millenials who were born roughly 1985-2000. Unless they think of WWII babies who would all be 65+ as part of the working population. Since my mother is still working at age 80, I guess that's possible.

[Anonymous]

This is something DH is wondering about. But what can he do about it? He can't dumb down? (Edit his resume? Pretend he doesn't know things he does know?)

It depends. If he is looking a jobs below his qualifications just to get out of where he is now, it may help. I wanted an easier job after I had my son - when I sent out my "full" resume, no bites. I dumbed it down some (didn't list some accomplishments, oversight responsibilities) and I have several interviews lined up within 4 months, and eventually, a new job.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand SAHM's in their 50's and 60's. Why didn't you go back to work?