Adoption Not working

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents adopted my sister at age 7 in the 70's. She had been neglected - her drug addicted mother left her home alone at age 4 to babysit 2 younger brothers ages 1&2. All three were with a foster family from age 4-7, then the family adopted the youngest boy and said they couldn't take my sister and the older boy.

She was "fine" until about age 12, which is also when my parents divorced. She never was able to trust and truly bond with anyone and basically did not have a conscience. She was a nightmare until age 15 - lying, stealing and very violent. I was a commuter college student and would hide the kitchen knives every night. Sometimes I came home and she had my mom pinned to the ground and wouldn't let her go.

My (divorced) parents sued the state adoption agency and won in court. The state had neuro testing done that showed issues but they never informed my parents. So they wasted 5 years not getting treatment.

The state was ordered to pay $30K per year for a special residential school (this was in early 80's). She was there for 3 years and they did "fix" her.

She married at 19 and they are still married. She became a vet tech and has been a socially responsible person.

Several other families in my parents local adoptive group also adopted older kids. Everyone dealt with the same issues. One kid tried to burn down their house, another tried to stab the mother. My sister's 2 brothers have been in prison for decades for drugs and other crimes.

I believe the term now is Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). Oprah did a show on these types of kids decades ago that I saw and I said - that's my sister!

Regular counseling is not going to help. You need to find local professionals who can steer you into solutions for RAD. It's probably going to involve institutional care. Hopefully you have funds to pay for it.

I am so sorry for what your family went through. And I am so impressed with their commitment. As hard as the road was, this is an amazing success story and your family is unbelievable.

Yes, my mother (and to some extent my dad) was a good role model for being an activist when something just wasn't right. But even then, I felt torn that the incredible amount of 30K per year in 1982 meant other local kids had less support from the agency. But then again, my sister would have ended up in jail like her brothers, which would have far exceeded 90K. The other adoptive families were not so lucky and their kids were either "given back" in some fashion or are still incarcerated. I appreciate your understanding and nice words.

I truly feel for OP who is going through this nightmare right now. My best advice is to do anything to get the kid into the system and find experienced advisors who understand what they are really dealing with and how to get to a solution. Also, how to protect 80yo and the younger sibling, who is also traumatized but not currently acting out.

I can't believe I "survived"

Funding doesn't reallly work that way. You aren't taking it from another child. They get funded as needed.

[Anonymous]

We have three adopted kids and one was like this - notice I said was. Here’s what we did.

Self harm - immediate trip to the Er which resulted in hospitalization 50% of the time.

Violence and property damage- police were called who took kid to ER, sometimes in handcuffs. When ER called we refused to come so kid was admitted.

Residential treatment. PP describes a program they used and it is a good description for what we used. We only considered programs where staff had adoption experience and experience with attachment disorders including RAD.

After that, specialized public school non mainstream program - which fortunately we didn’t have to pay for.

We did things like applying for jobs for him and driving him to work when he got the jobs.

Things that didn’t work - therapy.

It was a long road and my child even ended up Homeless for a minute. But early on we realized we needed to identify our lines in the sand and stick to them - and those lines were zero tolerance For violence or drugs among things like going to school and working. That consistency plus the outside support got us to a successful place. We did have to compromise o things like smoking but we placed line in the sand limits.

Today my young adult is in college,
Working and a pleasure to live with.

[Anonymous]

Meant to say, I can't believe I "survived" this messy situation. I was first in my family to go to college and ended up triple majoring in 3 STEM degrees, all while going thru this nightmare.

Imagine studying Physics w/Calculus problems, taking 18-21 credit hours of Engineering and Computer courses, spending hours in the computer lab, and needing to rush home to make sure Mom was ok.

It was a relief when she went to this school, and an even more celebration when she graduated and was a successful and contributing adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have three adopted kids and one was like this - notice I said was. Here’s what we did.

Self harm - immediate trip to the Er which resulted in hospitalization 50% of the time.

Violence and property damage- police were called who took kid to ER, sometimes in handcuffs. When ER called we refused to come so kid was admitted.

Residential treatment. PP describes a program they used and it is a good description for what we used. We only considered programs where staff had adoption experience and experience with attachment disorders including RAD.

After that, specialized public school non mainstream program - which fortunately we didn’t have to pay for.

We did things like applying for jobs for him and driving him to work when he got the jobs.

Things that didn’t work - therapy.

It was a long road and my child even ended up Homeless for a minute. But early on we realized we needed to identify our lines in the sand and stick to them - and those lines were zero tolerance For violence or drugs among things like going to school and working. That consistency plus the outside support got us to a successful place. We did have to compromise o things like smoking but we placed line in the sand limits.

Today my young adult is in college,
Working and a pleasure to live with.

I'm the PP with the sister. Totally agree with everything in this approach. ER, Psych ward, police, residential. Firm boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Military school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents adopted my sister at age 7 in the 70's. She had been neglected - her drug addicted mother left her home alone at age 4 to babysit 2 younger brothers ages 1&2. All three were with a foster family from age 4-7, then the family adopted the youngest boy and said they couldn't take my sister and the older boy.

She was "fine" until about age 12, which is also when my parents divorced. She never was able to trust and truly bond with anyone and basically did not have a conscience. She was a nightmare until age 15 - lying, stealing and very violent. I was a commuter college student and would hide the kitchen knives every night. Sometimes I came home and she had my mom pinned to the ground and wouldn't let her go.

My (divorced) parents sued the state adoption agency and won in court. The state had neuro testing done that showed issues but they never informed my parents. So they wasted 5 years not getting treatment.

The state was ordered to pay $30K per year for a special residential school (this was in early 80's). She was there for 3 years and they did "fix" her.

She married at 19 and they are still married. She became a vet tech and has been a socially responsible person.

Several other families in my parents local adoptive group also adopted older kids. Everyone dealt with the same issues. One kid tried to burn down their house, another tried to stab the mother. My sister's 2 brothers have been in prison for decades for drugs and other crimes.

I believe the term now is Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). Oprah did a show on these types of kids decades ago that I saw and I said - that's my sister!

Regular counseling is not going to help. You need to find local professionals who can steer you into solutions for RAD. It's probably going to involve institutional care. Hopefully you have funds to pay for it.

Wow. I'm so glad your sister turned out OK. What on earth did they do to her at the residential program???

Their methods are probably controversial now, but basically they start out with no privileges. They had to wear a certain color jumpsuit and just got the basics - bed, food, school, therapy. As they followed the rules, they earned freedom to choose their clothing, participate in fun activities, have possessions, etc. They proceeded through school at their own level and pace and were rewarded for doing their homework and advancing. Basically it was very controlled, rule oriented - kind of like boot camp. When a resident would get out of control, they would bear hug them until they calmed down. I'm not sure if this method is still recommended. By the third year, they were allowed outings and not "locked" in. If they ran away and were returned, they went back to step 1.

I think their theory was to take their brain back to infancy and redo building the ability to make attachments and have a conscience. She was on the girl's side. When I googled the school later, I learned it had been shut down due to some sexual & physical abuse by adults, mainly on the boys side. Talk about the final nail for boys who are already traumatized. My sister blossomed there. She's very outspoken and would have told me then and now if she experienced any abuse. We visited several times a year for parents days and it was amazing watching her mature and get along in a healthy way with her friends.

I'm not going to say my sister is a textbook example of a GREAT mother, but she was good. Her husband's method of discipline was what I grew up on - "if you don't stop crying, I'll bust your butt and give you something to cry about". Her husband has been a working electrician for 35 years, they own a mobile home and 10 acres and have a "zoo", including 2 horses, a really old tortoise who is attached to her (and will outlive us all), birds, dogs, cats - and more. She spends lots of time with her grandkids and is loving, but no nonsense. She is very much like her neighbors - not a lot of extra money, but a good weekend is going to a mud bog and having a BBQ while watching auto racing. She is a very loyal friend and does not put up with any BS from anyone.

We still do that in the local jail. A rewards-based incentive program. Rewarding for consistently responsible and increasingly responsible behavior. It works well when expectations are reasonable and clearly laid out, and consistently rewarded. But it does work best in a confined system like a correctional institution. I don't think it would work as well at someone's home for someone who is highly-impacted by mental health and behavioral health challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have three adopted kids and one was like this - notice I said was. Here’s what we did.

Self harm - immediate trip to the Er which resulted in hospitalization 50% of the time.

Violence and property damage- police were called who took kid to ER, sometimes in handcuffs. When ER called we refused to come so kid was admitted.

Residential treatment. PP describes a program they used and it is a good description for what we used. We only considered programs where staff had adoption experience and experience with attachment disorders including RAD.

After that, specialized public school non mainstream program - which fortunately we didn’t have to pay for.

We did things like applying for jobs for him and driving him to work when he got the jobs.

Things that didn’t work - therapy.

It was a long road and my child even ended up Homeless for a minute. But early on we realized we needed to identify our lines in the sand and stick to them - and those lines were zero tolerance For violence or drugs among things like going to school and working. That consistency plus the outside support got us to a successful place. We did have to compromise o things like smoking but we placed line in the sand limits.

Today my young adult is in college,
Working and a pleasure to live with.

I'm the PP with the sister. Totally agree with everything in this approach. ER, Psych ward, police, residential. Firm boundaries.

I am the PP who thinks your family rocks. Hearing the effects on you is painful. I have two other kids, one whom was really in the mix due to her age. As parents we didn’t plan it, we might have chosen a different course if we could have anticipated how horrific it was to be on our other kids, and we did our best to protect our other kids. But I recognize that there is an effect and I can’t help that because I had no idea what was to come when we brought Other kids into our family. My youngest, like you and who truly experienced the brunt, is amazing and making a successful path. I am impressed by her and I am amazed by you - I Hope that’s worth something from an internet stranger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have three adopted kids and one was like this - notice I said was. Here’s what we did.

Self harm - immediate trip to the Er which resulted in hospitalization 50% of the time.

Violence and property damage- police were called who took kid to ER, sometimes in handcuffs. When ER called we refused to come so kid was admitted.

Residential treatment. PP describes a program they used and it is a good description for what we used. We only considered programs where staff had adoption experience and experience with attachment disorders including RAD.

After that, specialized public school non mainstream program - which fortunately we didn’t have to pay for.

We did things like applying for jobs for him and driving him to work when he got the jobs.

Things that didn’t work - therapy.

It was a long road and my child even ended up Homeless for a minute. But early on we realized we needed to identify our lines in the sand and stick to them - and those lines were zero tolerance For violence or drugs among things like going to school and working. That consistency plus the outside support got us to a successful place. We did have to compromise o things like smoking but we placed line in the sand limits.

Today my young adult is in college,
Working and a pleasure to live with.

I'm the PP with the sister. Totally agree with everything in this approach. ER, Psych ward, police, residential. Firm boundaries.

I am the PP who thinks your family rocks. Hearing the effects on you is painful. I have two other kids, one whom was really in the mix due to her age. As parents we didn’t plan it, we might have chosen a different course if we could have anticipated how horrific it was to be on our other kids, and we did our best to protect our other kids. But I recognize that there is an effect and I can’t help that because I had no idea what was to come when we brought Other kids into our family. My youngest, like you and who truly experienced the brunt, is amazing and making a successful path. I am impressed by her and I am amazed by you - I Hope that’s worth something from an internet stranger.

Thank you - that means a lot! And best wishes to your daughter and family too. What doesn't break us makes us stronger (as long as we don't break!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meant to say, I can't believe I "survived" this messy situation. I was first in my family to go to college and ended up triple majoring in 3 STEM degrees, all while going thru this nightmare.

Imagine studying Physics w/Calculus problems, taking 18-21 credit hours of Engineering and Computer courses, spending hours in the computer lab, and needing to rush home to make sure Mom was ok.

It was a relief when she went to this school, and an even more celebration when she graduated and was a successful and contributing adult.

This isn’t about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Meant to say, I can't believe I "survived" this messy situation. I was first in my family to go to college and ended up triple majoring in 3 STEM degrees, all while going thru this nightmare.

Imagine studying Physics w/Calculus problems, taking 18-21 credit hours of Engineering and Computer courses, spending hours in the computer lab, and needing to rush home to make sure Mom was ok.

It was a relief when she went to this school, and an even more celebration when she graduated and was a successful and contributing adult.





This isn’t about you.

That's a nasty comment. Adoption/foster care IS about other children in the house. As an adoptive mom to kids who were older at time of placement, I would have been wracked with guilt had we already had bio kids in the home given some of the behaviors we experienced. People who already have children in the home should think long and hard before embarking on adoption or foster care because they already have lives for which they are responsible. And choosing to adopt kids who may experience life long challenges and needs will---at some point---burden your existing children. Yes, bio families can have children with special needs but that is not the same as affirmatively making the choice to create that situation for your existing children. Kudos to the PP who survived the chaos. A wise (and regretful) parent once told me that no family should allow the most disruptive member to control the family dynamic, as it is profoundly unfair to everyone else. Your family did the right thing to send your sister to treatment. We made a similar choice and also had positive results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Meant to say, I can't believe I "survived" this messy situation. I was first in my family to go to college and ended up triple majoring in 3 STEM degrees, all while going thru this nightmare.

Imagine studying Physics w/Calculus problems, taking 18-21 credit hours of Engineering and Computer courses, spending hours in the computer lab, and needing to rush home to make sure Mom was ok.

It was a relief when she went to this school, and an even more celebration when she graduated and was a successful and contributing adult.





This isn’t about you.

That's a nasty comment. Adoption/foster care IS about other children in the house. As an adoptive mom to kids who were older at time of placement, I would have been wracked with guilt had we already had bio kids in the home given some of the behaviors we experienced. People who already have children in the home should think long and hard before embarking on adoption or foster care because they already have lives for which they are responsible. And choosing to adopt kids who may experience life long challenges and needs will---at some point---burden your existing children. Yes, bio families can have children with special needs but that is not the same as affirmatively making the choice to create that situation for your existing children. Kudos to the PP who survived the chaos. A wise (and regretful) parent once told me that no family should allow the most disruptive member to control the family dynamic, as it is profoundly unfair to everyone else. Your family did the right thing to send your sister to treatment. We made a similar choice and also had positive results.

No it’s not. The discussion is not about you or siblings. You are dangerous if you hide knives. Kids can have mental health issues regardless of how they joined a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had an experience where the adoption did not work? Adoption of siblings took place 10 years ago. At the time DDs were 5 and 6. Fast forward to ages 15 & 16 and the older sibling is making life unbearable and unsafe. She has made it clear that she wants no part of the family. At 11 she declared that she was done with us and the running away began. We have had contact with several doctors, counselors, therapists, and now police but nothing has helped. She has caused significant damage to the home, neighbor's homes and school. She has also become violent with her sibling and me. There is an 80 year old in the household as well and she is terrified. Any suggestions for next steps?

I would hospitalize her ASAP as she is a danger to others. That is the words you should use.

Many, many years ago my doctor asked me if I was thinking about having children. I said that I really wanted to adopt. She said, AND I QUOTE "why would you do that? You have no idea the genetics and problems those children may or may not have. You're better off with your own genetics if you can." I know to most of you this sounds harsh however I know of too many situations like OP happening and this should be considered long and hard these days. Not saying most adoptions turn out like they because they probably don't but if you're the one that it doesn't what a difficult place to be.

I'm sorry op. You must be exhausted. I hope your kids get the help they need. Your heart was in the right place which is extra messed up that this is happening to you. Sending you hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had an experience where the adoption did not work? Adoption of siblings took place 10 years ago. At the time DDs were 5 and 6. Fast forward to ages 15 & 16 and the older sibling is making life unbearable and unsafe. She has made it clear that she wants no part of the family. At 11 she declared that she was done with us and the running away began. We have had contact with several doctors, counselors, therapists, and now police but nothing has helped. She has caused significant damage to the home, neighbor's homes and school. She has also become violent with her sibling and me. There is an 80 year old in the household as well and she is terrified. Any suggestions for next steps?

I would hospitalize her ASAP as she is a danger to others. That is the words you should use.

Many, many years ago my doctor asked me if I was thinking about having children. I said that I really wanted to adopt. She said, AND I QUOTE "why would you do that? You have no idea the genetics and problems those children may or may not have. You're better off with your own genetics if you can." I know to most of you this sounds harsh however I know of too many situations like OP happening and this should be considered long and hard these days. Not saying most adoptions turn out like they because they probably don't but if you're the one that it doesn't what a difficult place to be.

I'm sorry op. You must be exhausted. I hope your kids get the help they need. Your heart was in the right place which is extra messed up that this is happening to you. Sending you hugs.

Looking back I'm thankful my kids don't have my genetics due to horrible health issues that I'd never want to pass on. You can have kids with mental health issues that are bio and adopted. You just hear more about the kids who were adopted but there are far more bio kids with mental health issues. Mine have no mental health issues, good kids.

[Anonymous]

You need to find a post-permanency specialist. Look that up in your state. Usually their services are free.

[Anonymous]

We had increasingly hard and dangerous experience from age 9 through high school, at which point some problems continued (mostly financial) for years after move out, but weren't as terrifying. By age 25 (I guess that prefrontal cortex thing is real) the wildest impulsive behavior calmed down and life became relatively normal again.

It's hard, but it's the greatest good you can do in the world.