"The Dating Cultural Norm That's Making Everyone Unhappy"

[Anonymous]

It’s a great world for West Elm Calebs out there who can sleep with a different girl boss mid every night of the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

I’m amused by the quote that men are happiest when women earn 40% of income — for most of human history I’m pretty sure women were almost never happy. Look at the Valium soaked 50s housewife, with labor saving devices, high earning stable husbands but still miserable.

I completely agree. Men just have to deal and adapt, maybe develop other skills such as cooking, chores and making a home/running a household.

The adaptation has already started. As a higher earning GenX woman, there still is some feelings work to be done.

Be careful what books you read to your girls/let them read. And movies. I went in with eyes wide open as a child of the 1970s but still sometimes wish that my Prince Charming would do the financial planning, the plumbing repairs, and the phone plan price negotiation.

I'm looking forward to be a babysitting grandma so my DILs can thrive in their careers. I've saved a few fairytale books about being the man having to be the worthy spouse. One is "A Weave of Words" and the other is "The King's Equal".

On a slightly different note, it's possible that with more female politicians, it could get easier to be a single working mom in the US. There were times in Soviet Russia when that worked pretty well despite what has been a long term shortage of men (starting with WW2 losses).

DH here. I was absolutely influenced by a gift book I got about how girls can do anything boys can do. I still recall it 30 years later — but can’t find it or its title. It was an earth toned minimalist illustrations from the 70s.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what women plan to do, but for men there are literally billions of women in Brazil, Colombia, Indonesia, India, Morocco, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, China, and Japan who would love to marry a reasonably successful American man.

My advice to my son is to avoid American women, pile up money until he is 40, then retire and move to someplace like Thailand and start a family there.

[Anonymous]

I didn't read the article.

I don't believe that women out earn men in the same jobs throughout their lives.

Women need more college education. They defer an income.

Perhaps women are more compliant at work and less likely to be fired, have addictions, more stable.

Women should not settle.

I am telling you. This is all a ruse to get women to accept horrible men and their horrible behavior.

Women, if he doesn't beat you, if he is breathing and has a pulse, who cares if you're a smart, sophisticated, educated woman. You don't want to die alone a cat lady in a small apartment.

Get it.

[Anonymous]

Don’t let income dictate gender roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure what women plan to do, but for men there are literally billions of women in Brazil, Colombia, Indonesia, India, Morocco, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, China, and Japan who would love to marry a reasonably successful American man.

My advice to my son is to avoid American women, pile up money until he is 40, then retire and move to someplace like Thailand and start a family there.

Sad.

I have a male coworker who is prior military who did this with his 2nd wife.

I am Italian American woman, very educated and "opinionated." This man could not take his eyes off of my voluptuous body and big eyes. And we worked remotely. He was caught in a few holiday party photos staring at me. And I dress conservatively.

If your son is attracted to American women, maybe he could learn emotional intelligence. Maybe he can learn there are trade offs and boredom in knowing you are not married to a woman who challenges you because she is your equal.

[Anonymous]

That’s a very good point. Somehow Scandinavian country males are completely comfortable with women as their equals. Americans not so much. With Trump being elected, I realized how sexist American is. I never *truly* realized it before.

+1
I'm a Scandinavian engineer here in the usa and I just focused more on my kids when my wife started to out-earn me. Now she's an exec and that means that I have to do all the "emotional" work like scheduling Dr. appointments, shopping, running the house, etc. I don't mind and as a result have a much better bond with my kids than a lot of my male engineer peers. My kids are also much better in sports than their peers because we spent so much time together "training" when they were young and are actually coach able because they see the results. My BIL is millennial American who's now maga with young kids and high earning wife, but he's useless with helping at home, and can't hold down any job either. Not sure if it's my engineering bent or just osmosis from growing up in more egalitarian society, but a lot of American males are forced incels for a reason from my anecdotal observation.

[Anonymous]

I read the article. I read through some of the replies on NYT.

This is my sentiment exactly.

Older Mom
Seattle, WA
11m ago
"This article places too much emphasis on women as the "choosers" in the dating dynamic. The opposite and has long been the case and remains so today. Men are conditioned to want a fantasy archetype woman that few harried independent professional women can achieve. Most women are not gold diggers, but the archetypal woman that men want has little choice but to rely on a partner for economic support to maintain the facade men desire, which by the way requires a lot of time and money. If todays young men can't attract their chosen female archetype, they hide in dark rooms viewing porn, gaming and consuming media that fuels their sense of entitlement.

Those who do venture out and interact with real women, will find an abundance of women looking for intimacy and connection. These men often feed their entitlement with this cornucopia of choice, further exacerbating the loneliness and desperation of women looking to partner.

The sad reality of "your body-my choice" is that this sentiment is nothing new. The only thing different about today relative to 20th century dating dynamics is that young women seem willing to move on with their lives, adulting solo while men continue living as adolescents."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure what women plan to do, but for men there are literally billions of women in Brazil, Colombia, Indonesia, India, Morocco, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, China, and Japan who would love to marry a reasonably successful American man.

My advice to my son is to avoid American women, pile up money until he is 40, then retire and move to someplace like Thailand and start a family there.

I really hope this is not your advice to your son's.

I totally agree that respectful, educated, successful and attractive men control the dating market but that's always been true. I also agree that some women need to adjust their expectations.

But the idea that all American women are toxic and irredeemable is itself toxic and I really hope you aren't instilling this level of bitterness on your kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

I’m amused by the quote that men are happiest when women earn 40% of income — for most of human history I’m pretty sure women were almost never happy. Look at the Valium soaked 50s housewife, with labor saving devices, high earning stable husbands but still miserable.

I completely agree. Men just have to deal and adapt, maybe develop other skills such as cooking, chores and making a home/running a household.

The adaptation has already started. As a higher earning GenX woman, there still is some feelings work to be done.

Be careful what books you read to your girls/let them read. And movies. I went in with eyes wide open as a child of the 1970s but still sometimes wish that my Prince Charming would do the financial planning, the plumbing repairs, and the phone plan price negotiation.

I'm looking forward to be a babysitting grandma so my DILs can thrive in their careers. I've saved a few fairytale books about being the man having to be the worthy spouse. One is "A Weave of Words" and the other is "The King's Equal".

On a slightly different note, it's possible that with more female politicians, it could get easier to be a single working mom in the US. There were times in Soviet Russia when that worked pretty well despite what has been a long term shortage of men (starting with WW2 losses).

That’s a very good point. Somehow Scandinavian country males are completely comfortable with women as their equals. Americans not so much. With Trump being elected, I realized how sexist American is. I never *truly* realized it before.

I didn’t vote for trump but him winning wasn’t because of America being sexist as Hilary got 3 million more votes than trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

I’m amused by the quote that men are happiest when women earn 40% of income — for most of human history I’m pretty sure women were almost never happy. Look at the Valium soaked 50s housewife, with labor saving devices, high earning stable husbands but still miserable.

I completely agree. Men just have to deal and adapt, maybe develop other skills such as cooking, chores and making a home/running a household.

The adaptation has already started. As a higher earning GenX woman, there still is some feelings work to be done.

Be careful what books you read to your girls/let them read. And movies. I went in with eyes wide open as a child of the 1970s but still sometimes wish that my Prince Charming would do the financial planning, the plumbing repairs, and the phone plan price negotiation.

I'm looking forward to be a babysitting grandma so my DILs can thrive in their careers. I've saved a few fairytale books about being the man having to be the worthy spouse. One is "A Weave of Words" and the other is "The King's Equal".

On a slightly different note, it's possible that with more female politicians, it could get easier to be a single working mom in the US. There were times in Soviet Russia when that worked pretty well despite what has been a long term shortage of men (starting with WW2 losses).

DH here. I was absolutely influenced by a gift book I got about how girls can do anything boys can do. I still recall it 30 years later — but can’t find it or its title. It was an earth toned minimalist illustrations from the 70s.

PP. Thank you for saying that. My husband was also influenced in childhood by a very 1970s egalitarian book.

Stories matter. I love stories and have many books from my childhood. These do influence your worldview.

Haha - anyone remember Richard Scarry's "Mother's Work is Never Done"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure what women plan to do, but for men there are literally billions of women in Brazil, Colombia, Indonesia, India, Morocco, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, China, and Japan who would love to marry a reasonably successful American man.

My advice to my son is to avoid American women, pile up money until he is 40, then retire and move to someplace like Thailand and start a family there.

In my experience, the American men who do this are emotionally immature. They have to find someone for whom they are a big tradeup. Someone who has to go abroad to find a spouse is unlikely to be very successful here. Not to mention their spouse may only want the financial benefits - and American alimony is pretty good by their standards.

[Anonymous]

The solution is to raise more secure, evolved men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This was the title of an Op-Ed in today's NYT. I won't post it both due to copyright and as part got (unnecessarily) political, but some of it resonated with me as Mom to a girl.

It said girls are becoming more and more successful academically and careerwise.

But there is a constant longstanding Prince Charming sense that a female should only be with a man who is higher-earning. Since females are eclipsing many males, this leaves a shrinking pool of desirable men everyone is chasing after, who get to set the terms any may be less likely to settle down.

The op-ed cites research that a man is most happy with his wife earning 40% of the household income. And may feel anxiety if she outearns him.

Therefore, many females and males are left single and alone.

Solutions?

Lesbianism. Duh.

[Anonymous]

And then there's my husband, who has been unemployed for six months.