"The Dating Cultural Norm That's Making Everyone Unhappy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people need to evolve. The reality is that during a marriage, earnings may change, people lose their jobs, get disabled, etc.

Except this phenomenon is mainly happening in the West, and in certain Asian countries as well. But unlike East Asia, the West has open immigration policies which means those from more traditional/conservative cultures will continue to migrate here and out breed the liberal progressive minded people who prioritize other aspects of life. Over the next several decades the West will become more socially conservative due to the influx of African/Latin American/Muslim immigrants that don’t share modern gender values. Modern liberalism is a virus that burns itself out eventually.

Disagree. Once the kids get here they start escaping the cultural conditioning. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are incredibly seductive. Pervasive modern media seals the deal.

This is absolutely what happens. PP is too insular with no experience to realize this.
- immigrant's kid

[Anonymous]

The constant here is that women whine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hetero marriage has evolved. A husband is a life partner not a meal ticket. I out earn my husband but that doesn’t mean we contribute unequally to our family life. Anyone who doesn’t get this needs to grow up.

Okay, Pickmesha.

Unless you're saying your husband does more than half the domestic work, without being a whiny resentful cuss, I don't even believe you. Even if he does, this arrangement is nonsense. I've yet to meet a hetero man who understands and happily handles all the domestic doo-doos, but I guess you get to be smug on DCUM about your losing take?

[Anonymous]

My SIL outearns my BIL and is the boss of the house. It suits them. Rational people have to understand themselves better and high-earning female deciders might be happy with gentler males, who maybe aren't as high-earning. The goal being to reduce conflicts in the home and still pair off happily.

Our marriage occasionally suffer because DH and I are both type A people who think they know best. Usually we can restrict our know-it-all attitudes to our respective spheres of influence, but sometimes not. And our fights are epic. I might have done better with a beta male

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hetero marriage has evolved. A husband is a life partner not a meal ticket. I out earn my husband but that doesn’t mean we contribute unequally to our family life. Anyone who doesn’t get this needs to grow up.

Okay, Pickmesha.

Unless you're saying your husband does more than half the domestic work, without being a whiny resentful cuss, I don't even believe you. Even if he does, this arrangement is nonsense. I've yet to meet a hetero man who understands and happily handles all the domestic doo-doos, but I guess you get to be smug on DCUM about your losing take?

You are that awful creature who constantly uses this term wrong. I remember you from other threads

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hetero marriage has evolved. A husband is a life partner not a meal ticket. I out earn my husband but that doesn’t mean we contribute unequally to our family life. Anyone who doesn’t get this needs to grow up.

Okay, Pickmesha.

Unless you're saying your husband does more than half the domestic work, without being a whiny resentful cuss, I don't even believe you. Even if he does, this arrangement is nonsense. I've yet to meet a hetero man who understands and happily handles all the domestic doo-doos, but I guess you get to be smug on DCUM about your losing take?

NP, my husband earns a lot less than me and does a lot more for the house and kids. Lots of women here put on a much nicer pleasant front than me, but are angry inside. I don’t hide my frustration. I’m not going to live with someone who doesn’t meaningfully contribute to the running of the household. I never had grand visions of marriage and babies which probably contributes to my attitude.

[Anonymous]

I earn significantly more than my DH. I've found that I can't ever appear to prioritize my career over his. We can treat our careers as equal, but mine can never be treated more important. He does do lots around the house and with the kids, but so do I.

If roles were reversed, I think most moms would end up taking on more housework and childcare as the lower earning spouse so their higher earning husband could maximize his career. I don't have that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I earn significantly more than my DH. I've found that I can't ever appear to prioritize my career over his. We can treat our careers as equal, but mine can never be treated more important. He does do lots around the house and with the kids, but so do I.

If roles were reversed, I think most moms would end up taking on more housework and childcare as the lower earning spouse so their higher earning husband could maximize his career. I don't have that option.

What happens when you call out the dynamic directly?

[Anonymous]

I'm a woman that went to HYPSM and didn't date anyone in college. While I spent many years low paid, I always knew I'd be more educated and make more money than probably 99.9% of men. I know some men weren't ok with that. I currently out earn my husband by double, but he is earning healthcare for life and a pension. Things money can't buy. So I consider it an equal contribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

I’m amused by the quote that men are happiest when women earn 40% of income — for most of human history I’m pretty sure women were almost never happy. Look at the Valium soaked 50s housewife, with labor saving devices, high earning stable husbands but still miserable.

I completely agree. Men just have to deal and adapt, maybe develop other skills such as cooking, chores and making a home/running a household.

They’re not gonna. Now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

Declining TFRs in advanced countries strongly suggest that women (and especially smart women) don’t want children and, if they’re “finding the right puzzle piece”, aren’t having kids with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure what women plan to do, but for men there are literally billions of women in Brazil, Colombia, Indonesia, India, Morocco, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, China, and Japan who would love to marry a reasonably successful American man.

My advice to my son is to avoid American women, pile up money until he is 40, then retire and move to someplace like Thailand and start a family there.

In my experience, the American men who do this are emotionally immature. They have to find someone for whom they are a big tradeup. Someone who has to go abroad to find a spouse is unlikely to be very successful here. Not to mention their spouse may only want the financial benefits - and American alimony is pretty good by their standards.

This is my experience as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the title of an Op-Ed in today's NYT. I won't post it both due to copyright and as part got (unnecessarily) political, but some of it resonated with me as Mom to a girl.

It said girls are becoming more and more successful academically and careerwise.

But there is a constant longstanding Prince Charming sense that a female should only be with a man who is higher-earning. Since females are eclipsing many males, this leaves a shrinking pool of desirable men everyone is chasing after, who get to set the terms any may be less likely to settle down.

The op-ed cites research that a man is most happy with his wife earning 40% of the household income. And may feel anxiety if she outearns him.

Therefore, many females and males are left single and alone.

Solutions?

Lesbianism. Duh.

I'm here for it. I would love a wife who makes a similar income, is emotionally evolved, appreciates companionship and isn't ruled by her dick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t one in the near-term. Women’s desire to marry “up” is basically biologically hard-wired, our academic systems result in more women than men going to college, which has downstream effects on professional success. Solve for the equilibrium.

This will continue until it can’t anymore, but there is long runway for this continued dynamic. Eventually this results in sub-replacement fertility, and ultimately replacement by populations with more traditional sex roles and thus higher fertility rates. The future belongs to those who show up. At least until AI makes all humans obsolete, with unpredictable outcomes. That said, it’s never been a better time to be a successful man, one’s choices are endless.

People want sex and children. They will figure it out. Smart women will find the right puzzle piece male and have kids, even if he’s a public school teacher to her VP.

I’m amused by the quote that men are happiest when women earn 40% of income — for most of human history I’m pretty sure women were almost never happy. Look at the Valium soaked 50s housewife, with labor saving devices, high earning stable husbands but still miserable.

I completely agree. Men just have to deal and adapt, maybe develop other skills such as cooking, chores and making a home/running a household.

Act like Korean and Japanese women and pass.
They’re not gonna. Now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a great world for West Elm Calebs out there who can sleep with a different girl boss mid every night of the week.

What does this mean? I think I'm missing a cultural reference or two.