Gender dysphoria; what age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the 1990s and before, most children with significant dysphoria at a young age had it resolve at puberty, though mostly they turned out same-sex attracted.

Current model in the US is to affirm when young, and stop puberty from taking place. Most of Europe, where this was common, has reversed course and no longer prescribe puberty blockers.

^This. The U.S. is way behind the curve on evidence-based thinking on this. Much to the harm of our children, tragically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1990s and before, most children with significant dysphoria at a young age had it resolve at puberty, though mostly they turned out same-sex attracted.

Current model in the US is to affirm when young, and stop puberty from taking place. Most of Europe, where this was common, has reversed course and no longer prescribe puberty blockers.

^This. The U.S. is way behind the curve on evidence-based thinking on this. Much to the harm of our children, tragically.

What is the dominant scientific evidence -based info out there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read this book a few months after my first child was born because I am a few degrees separated from the author: https://www.amazon.com/What-We-Will-Become-Transformation/dp/0544965833. In the book she talks about her son's transition and discusses how her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2. And it was subtle - around not wanting to wear gendered clothing and wanting to be a dog because he felt uncomfortable with his gender. He wasn't able to fully express himself or even probably on some level totally conceptualize what was distressing him but it was clear he was distressed.

No way to know if this is true. There are so many books by enmeshed moms projecting their own issues or wishes onto their kid's life story, for profit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read this book a few months after my first child was born because I am a few degrees separated from the author: https://www.amazon.com/What-We-Will-Become-Transformation/dp/0544965833. In the book she talks about her son's transition and discusses how her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2. And it was subtle - around not wanting to wear gendered clothing and wanting to be a dog because he felt uncomfortable with his gender. He wasn't able to fully express himself or even probably on some level totally conceptualize what was distressing him but it was clear he was distressed.

No way to know if this is true. There are so many books by enmeshed moms projecting their own issues or wishes onto their kid's life story, for profit.

I don’t know the author. I did yoga with someone who knew the author, so I have no way of knowing the truth behind the story. I’m just pointing to a potential resource that I read and took at face value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read this book a few months after my first child was born because I am a few degrees separated from the author: https://www.amazon.com/What-We-Will-Become-Transformation/dp/0544965833. In the book she talks about her son's transition and discusses how her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2. And it was subtle - around not wanting to wear gendered clothing and wanting to be a dog because he felt uncomfortable with his gender. He wasn't able to fully express himself or even probably on some level totally conceptualize what was distressing him but it was clear he was distressed.

No way to know if this is true. There are so many books by enmeshed moms projecting their own issues or wishes onto their kid's life story, for profit.

I don’t know the author. I did yoga with someone who knew the author, so I have no way of knowing the truth behind the story. I’m just pointing to a potential resource that I read and took at face value.

Even the author has now way of knowing the truth behind the story. This is not credible: "her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2." If you took this story at face value you need to examine your own credulity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious to hear from parents or adults who have direct experience: is it possible for a kid to experience gender dysphoria as young as 3 years old?

I thought that kids don't typically even understand gender as a concept until slightly older than 3 (like around 5 or 6).

Not trying to stir debate. Just curious from those with direct experience.

Inexperienced take but as a former teacher I have observed that kids who are 3, 4, 5, 6 routinely demonstrate preferences for dress/mannerisms/activities that adults have long-acknowledged would be assigned as more masculine or more feminine. And the stereotype is that boys “should” like blue or play with trucks or prefer to dress in cowboy gear or superhero capes in order for them to demonstrate their “boy-ness” and vice versa for girls (with pink, dolls, and princess dresses, for example)….

Preschool teachers would tend to tell you that they could “tell” when a boy exhibited signs of being gay (and that was usually aligned to their preference for feminine things like dolls or play habits not being rough-and-tumble….and sometimes with typically-effeminate mannerisms—-which is where the dainty-limp-wristed or “twinkle -toes” stereotypes would come from (see 70s/80s sitcoms where these were tropes used for a laugh)…….and this sort of ushered in the era of “born this way” ideaology because arguably these kids are not sexually-oriented beings at an early age in the way that a teen would be after puberty….so these types of things were pointed to as evidence of early signs.

But now when a child’s preferences for color, activity, style of play does not align with the gender stereotype that matches his/her sex, its being used as early evidence of dysphoria or pointed to as “see? He ACTS like a girl so maybe he is a girl!”

Case studies show very very rare instances of the children themselves stating that they ARE the gender that is opposite from their sex at such a young age. But plenty of 3-year-old boys will say they like dolls or girls will say they want to build mud pies. And that shouldn’t have to mean anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1990s and before, most children with significant dysphoria at a young age had it resolve at puberty, though mostly they turned out same-sex attracted.

Current model in the US is to affirm when young, and stop puberty from taking place. Most of Europe, where this was common, has reversed course and no longer prescribe puberty blockers.

^This. The U.S. is way behind the curve on evidence-based thinking on this. Much to the harm of our children, tragically.

What is the dominant scientific evidence -based info out there?

The Cass review might not be a bad place to start. Released today.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/

Various summaries:

Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13292025/Campaigners-demand-cowboy-clinics-doling-powerful-puberty-blockers-trans-children-banned-wake-bombshell-report-ruled-gender-care-built-shaky-foundations.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13291703/Meet-doctors-doled-puberty-blockers-generation-vulnerable-children.html

Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/children-are-being-used-as-a-football-hilary-cass-on-her-review-of-gender-identity-services

BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-68770641

[Anonymous]

I wore boy clothes and had a lot of masculine-coded hobbies, but my parents were so, so good at not commenting (good or bad) on my preferences. It was a non-issue to them that I wore boys’ clothes and eventually I grew out of it and into a personal style that makes me feel confident and pretty. Had my parents made a huge fuss over my gender and atypical preferences, I would have seriously questioned my gender. The best solution to gender dysphoria is allowing children the freedom to enjoy clothes and hobbies without requiring rigid gender labels. Age and maturity takes care of a lot of cases that might otherwise suffer if they make permanent decisions based on impermanent preferences.

[Anonymous]

3 is too young to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the 1990s and before, most children with significant dysphoria at a young age had it resolve at puberty, though mostly they turned out same-sex attracted.

Current model in the US is to affirm when young, and stop puberty from taking place. Most of Europe, where this was common, has reversed course and no longer prescribe puberty blockers.

^This. The U.S. is way behind the curve on evidence-based thinking on this. Much to the harm of our children, tragically.

What is the dominant scientific evidence -based info out there?

The Cass review might not be a bad place to start. Released today.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/

Various summaries:

Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13292025/Campaigners-demand-cowboy-clinics-doling-powerful-puberty-blockers-trans-children-banned-wake-bombshell-report-ruled-gender-care-built-shaky-foundations.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13291703/Meet-doctors-doled-puberty-blockers-generation-vulnerable-children.html

Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/children-are-being-used-as-a-football-hilary-cass-on-her-review-of-gender-identity-services

BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-68770641

Did you actually read the Cass Review? The US has pretty much successfully addressed the main problem she outlines in the report...that there are not enough "hubs" to get to the right diagnosis.

In spite of the fever dreams of some people, we do not just willy nilly say "hey, yep, let's start you on puberty blockers." There is a long psychiatric process which the NHS does not have.

If you actually talked to parents and people who have been through this, you would know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wore boy clothes and had a lot of masculine-coded hobbies, but my parents were so, so good at not commenting (good or bad) on my preferences. It was a non-issue to them that I wore boys’ clothes and eventually I grew out of it and into a personal style that makes me feel confident and pretty. Had my parents made a huge fuss over my gender and atypical preferences, I would have seriously questioned my gender. The best solution to gender dysphoria is allowing children the freedom to enjoy clothes and hobbies without requiring rigid gender labels. Age and maturity takes care of a lot of cases that might otherwise suffer if they make permanent decisions based on impermanent preferences.

Where do people come up with this idea that parents are like, "Whelp, Brian likes dolls. He must be a girl. Let's transgender him now, durf." Most parents do exactly what your parents did--wait it out and see what happens.

Also, you all are catastrophically confusing and conflating real dysphoria with liking "masculine-coded hobbies." It's disheartening no one even wants to try to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read this book a few months after my first child was born because I am a few degrees separated from the author: https://www.amazon.com/What-We-Will-Become-Transformation/dp/0544965833. In the book she talks about her son's transition and discusses how her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2. And it was subtle - around not wanting to wear gendered clothing and wanting to be a dog because he felt uncomfortable with his gender. He wasn't able to fully express himself or even probably on some level totally conceptualize what was distressing him but it was clear he was distressed.

wow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wore boy clothes and had a lot of masculine-coded hobbies, but my parents were so, so good at not commenting (good or bad) on my preferences. It was a non-issue to them that I wore boys’ clothes and eventually I grew out of it and into a personal style that makes me feel confident and pretty. Had my parents made a huge fuss over my gender and atypical preferences, I would have seriously questioned my gender. The best solution to gender dysphoria is allowing children the freedom to enjoy clothes and hobbies without requiring rigid gender labels. Age and maturity takes care of a lot of cases that might otherwise suffer if they make permanent decisions based on impermanent preferences.

Where do people come up with this idea that parents are like, "Whelp, Brian likes dolls. He must be a girl. Let's transgender him now, durf." Most parents do exactly what your parents did--wait it out and see what happens.

Also, you all are catastrophically confusing and conflating real dysphoria with liking "masculine-coded hobbies." It's disheartening no one even wants to try to learn.[b]

Definitely open to learning. Any additional insights to share...I mean addressing the initial question, is 3 too young? Seems like there are inconsistent anecdotes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not real at any age. If you gently model and reinforce normative gender roles the problem will just evaporate.

uhhh no. I was a tomboy type girl who definitely might be slotted as “trans” these days, and I think the trans stuff goes overboard. but the way to have actually created a psychological problem for me back then would have been if anyone in my life insisted on “normative gender roles.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read this book a few months after my first child was born because I am a few degrees separated from the author: https://www.amazon.com/What-We-Will-Become-Transformation/dp/0544965833. In the book she talks about her son's transition and discusses how her son was showing signs of being very distressed about his gender at 2. And it was subtle - around not wanting to wear gendered clothing and wanting to be a dog because he felt uncomfortable with his gender. He wasn't able to fully express himself or even probably on some level totally conceptualize what was distressing him but it was clear he was distressed.

No way to know if this is true. There are so many books by enmeshed moms projecting their own issues or wishes onto their kid's life story, for profit.

sadly I instantly suspect a mom of this if she seems really interested in publicity. it’s just not normal to want to publicize such a personal matter for a child. especially if they are very young. there’s truly no justification for it.