Kids in high achieving schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We actively fight against the teenage rat-race and the stress and anxiety our kids face, but they listen to us about that the same way they listen about eating all 4 food groups, getting to sleep on time, and clothing choices. Which is to say, not as much as we would prefer. But it's an almost daily conversation and we've made deliberate choices about where to live and what activities to encourage/allow in order to put their mental health first.

+1
The environment around us sends a different message than we do as parents. One of our family core values is health and the rat race is not healthy. I tell them there is space for everyone to be successful. If they zig, you zag. We are guiding our naturally anxious straight A Big 3 kid toward a nice Midwest university with high acceptance rates. It served me well, so I'm a great example of how one doesn't need a top university to be successful. She can choose a competitive grad school if she wants. We're not doing the Ivy or bust game, not even in that race.

Are you living your vlaues as a non-UMC MC family, or are you setting your child up to not have the same level of wealth that she was accustomed to as a child?

Access to grad school and a high paying career is a lot harder now than it was for your generation.

First of all were UC (for generations) and we are living our values.

Second, one child is on track to be a doctor and the other a lawyer. There are many great medical schools and it's not harder to get in now than in my generation. KU med is not Harvard, but lots of successful doctors have gone and continue to go there. She doesn't need Harvard to be a successful doctor. For my daughter who wants to be a lawyer, I genuinely hope she wants to do corporate law rather than white shoe big law. I just don't want her to be that kind of person. I work with many corporate lawyers who have great work-life balance and good UMC salaries. The younger one may still change her mind. I genuinely don't believe my kids are at risk of declining in SES. They will likely marry an equal, and two solid UMC salaries are more than plenty. They will be fine!

I feel a bit sad that your outlook for your own children is rooted in fear.

[Anonymous]

Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.

+1 DC just graduated from magnet in MCPS. They put the stress on themselves. I kept telling DC that getting a B on a report card is not a big deal, but they were adamant that they didn't want a B. IMO, it's because this DC isn't good at anything else other than academics, so they really wanted to shine in this area.

The only thing we pushed DC on was getting exercise and some fresh air. I hounded DC about it.

They are not at a T25, in part because we could not afford them, but they are happy where they are at.

Sometimes, the pressure is not from the parents, but themselves.

For the cases where parents are pushing, then yea, it's sad. My younger DC is not at a magnet, not academically inclined, and that's ok. I just want DC to try their best. This DC has strengths outside academia, and I'm proud of that, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

Most kids want to fit in. Its actually more rare to find a kid that doesn't. Clearly that is just your daughter's personality. Telling kids "not to care" about brand names doesn't usually work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

Most kids want to fit in. Its actually more rare to find a kid that doesn't. Clearly that is just your daughter's personality. Telling kids "not to care" about brand names doesn't usually work.

pp here.. the trick is to be in a big diverse school where not everyone is the same. When the school is made up of a homogeneous group of kids, that's when it's harder to "not care".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

Most kids want to fit in. Its actually more rare to find a kid that doesn't. Clearly that is just your daughter's personality. Telling kids "not to care" about brand names doesn't usually work.

pp here.. the trick is to be in a big diverse school where not everyone is the same. When the school is made up of a homogeneous group of kids, that's when it's harder to "not care".

DP, and while there is something to what you are saying (I also prefer a big diverse school without a clear "in crowd"), sometimes kids just want to fit in with a certain group of kids no matter what. You can't always control it. If your DD marches to her own beat, that's great, but that doesn't mean that you caused that with your parenting. Some kids are naturally more conformist. You see it in families -- one kid who is happy doing their own thing and doesn't care what peers do, and another who is the opposite and very focused on being in line with peers. It's a personality issue and your choice of school won't necessarily have any impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

Most kids want to fit in. Its actually more rare to find a kid that doesn't. Clearly that is just your daughter's personality. Telling kids "not to care" about brand names doesn't usually work.

pp here.. the trick is to be in a big diverse school where not everyone is the same. When the school is made up of a homogeneous group of kids, that's when it's harder to "not care".

+1 I have a 15 year old who sounds similar to yours and I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

Most kids want to fit in. Its actually more rare to find a kid that doesn't. Clearly that is just your daughter's personality. Telling kids "not to care" about brand names doesn't usually work.

pp here.. the trick is to be in a big diverse school where not everyone is the same. When the school is made up of a homogeneous group of kids, that's when it's harder to "not care".

PP here. We are in a big diverse school. 40% EL and 50% FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.

That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.

What parents these days don't know about it? Serious question.

Lol - most of DCUM, apparently. I have seen reference to this research maybe... twice? in all of the threads here (and I'm on here too much). Look at the panicked threads about college acceptance and private schools and the hand-wringing over sports and the various public schools. I want to know what data you have to suggest that most parents DO know about it.

It's nothing new. There was a book out ages ago. I thing it was called The Overachievers. It was about kids at Whitman and the pressure they face. Anecdotally, I think it's a mixed bag these days in high performance schools. Mental health resources are much better. Parents seem to be much more aware of how debilitating putting that kind of pressure on kids can be, particularly when it comes to colleges. And I think kids tend to be nicer and more empathic these days.

The downsides are social media, isolation, the lingering effects of Covid closures, and how dangerous drugs are these days. It takes one bad decision to OD. Also, our general era doesn't feel very positive these days, particularly for younger people. From affording a house to climate change to politics, nothing looks particularly good. You need to pay attention to where your teenager is at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

My kid at McLean doesn’t care about brand names at all. She does like to go thrift store shopping with friends.

[Anonymous]

We are in McLean high pyramid, my kid is at Longfellow 7th grade, I see this a lot at Longfellow but we have decided to drop out of this race. My kid is reasonably intelligent, Algebra 1 in 7th but we won't be applying for TJ, McLean High is better suited for his personality. He loves math and we support him in everything math related but no pressure.

I am pushing him to develop a strong work ethic, good study habits, they need to learn that working hard is important. As for grades and college let the chips fall wherever they may after the hard work has been done, no Ivy league craziness, any T75 good school will work. He should live a meaningful, happy, balanced life. For context, my kids will inherit over the course of their lives 3 mil each from us, they can take a lil breather, DH and I have worked too much and too hard to reach where we are. It's a decent sum but there are people around us with multiples of that and still pushing their kids to extreme. We came here with $100.00 and still managed to make something of ourselves.

Pressure and race to god knows where is astounding, Ivy league is like a lottery these days, a kid from a good enough college with good work ethic will end up doing fine in life.

Signed - An Asian parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a sliver of good news for those of us who can't afford to live in these neighborhoods.

Although even in my middle class Loudoun suburb, the pressure is still on to have the latest iphone/Stanley/lululemon/Nike shoe/whatever. It is intense and I hate what its done to my kids.

I think that kind of thing is only important if your kid wants to be in the popular crowd.

My 15 DD yr old DD doesn't have the latest whatever (what is a Stanley?), and she's still a pretty happy kid, very involved with her interests.

The popular kids here are into all that name brand stuff. I had a talk with DD very early on about the rabbit hole of going down the name brand chasing.

My kid at McLean doesn’t care about brand names at all. She does like to go thrift store shopping with friends.

+1 with my kid at W-L. With some groups it's not about the latest brand name but about finding something unique at a thrift store. They still want to fit in but the group norms are different

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in McLean high pyramid, ....

Pressure and race to god knows where is astounding, Ivy league is like a lottery these days, a kid from a good enough college with good work ethic will end up doing fine in life.

Signed - An Asian parent.

You mean an Asian Parent who is adapting to the WASP ways....welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.

That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.

What parents these days don't know about it? Serious question.

Lol - most of DCUM, apparently. I have seen reference to this research maybe... twice? in all of the threads here (and I'm on here too much). Look at the panicked threads about college acceptance and private schools and the hand-wringing over sports and the various public schools. I want to know what data you have to suggest that most parents DO know about it.

It's nothing new. There was a book out ages ago. I thing it was called The Overachievers. It was about kids at Whitman and the pressure they face. Anecdotally, I think it's a mixed bag these days in high performance schools. Mental health resources are much better. Parents seem to be much more aware of how debilitating putting that kind of pressure on kids can be, particularly when it comes to colleges. And I think kids tend to be nicer and more empathic these days.

The downsides are social media, isolation, the lingering effects of Covid closures, and how dangerous drugs are these days. It takes one bad decision to OD. Also, our general era doesn't feel very positive these days, particularly for younger people. From affording a house to climate change to politics, nothing looks particularly good. You need to pay attention to where your teenager is at.

Please don't compare glorified voyeurism by Alexandra Robbins to actual peer-reviewed research, e.g., that done by the late Suniya Luthar (an actual expert), about high-achieving schools. Moreover, there's a difference between parents acknowledging that schools like Whitman are pressure-cookers and them realizing that those kinds of environments substantially increase risk for later mood and substance disorders.

Also, mosey on over to the college forum if you think parents are aware of the pressure they're putting on kids. Some are, sure, and probably more so than in the past; there are still far too many who don't blink at the impossible standards they set, let alone demonstrating awareness of the specific risks.