Kids in high achieving schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

[Anonymous]

What kind of whackadoo parent purposefully puts an anxious kid into a high pressure environment and then takes them to a child psychologist to deal with the stress?

It reminds me of the parent who gives a kid with allergies steroid nebulizers rather than rehome their pet.

Take a step back and think about your priorities people. If the thing you want might kill your kid, it has to go. Period. You don’t keep it and then get your kid some kind of treatment in order to deal. That’s insane.

[Anonymous]

OP’s friend’s patient population is skewed though. I mean these are teens who are in therapy. Most kids are not in therapy. There are mentally ill students in all different situations but their parents may not be able to afford therapy for their teen.

I have a kid at Langley. He is a happy well adjusted kid. He has lots of friends. We actually like his high achieving peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, thank you for your reply because you exposed something that I should have been more clear about. I’m the poster you replied to.

My family is mixed. I’m white, DH is Asian and 1.5 generation (he’s immigrated twice; it’s complicated). Our background is similar to yours minus the unicorn tech company. The school I am talking about is 75% white and when I say that parents don’t know their values and are operating out of fear: that’s only the white parents. I thought and thought about it and the ones who complain about exmissions, about their kids’ scores being too low, etc: ALL white parents. The people buying their way out of pressure and the rat race are of every background and race but no one has less than 2nd generation kids.

There is SO much going on here and it’s not going to be unpacked in a DCUM thread. But it’s fascinating.

Chinatown PP here. I would be super curious to hear your thoughts on this and at least start to try to unpack it. Maybe DCUM isn't the forum for it, but I'd love to hear more of your opinions and observations at an elite private.

Independent school OP. I was thinking about this thread last night and going back to the original question and the idea of privilege and attitude about achievement/outcome and how those two things interact. Privilege seems to inform how the people who have it behave, but everyone is driven by how secure they feel in their place in society, so I think the quest for security is more of a common denominator in our specific community.

Our school families can be divided into four types. Imagine a graph with security on one axis and desire for achievement on the other- our families would be arrayed in 4 quadrants on this graph:

1) lower security, content attitude about outcome: these families are rare- they often grew up near our school when the city was more affordable and low-key and were able to fairly easily access competitive high schools and elite colleges when admissions were less difficult. They might have inherited a house and have a stable professional career, but they’re not tech millionaires. They recognize their relative privilege and know the odds of their children following in their footsteps is unlikely because of increased competition and demand for housing, elite schools, etc. but that they’ll have the security and status they’ve inherited, so they focus on other things.

2) higher security, striving: these parents are 1st generation kids of professional-class immigrants or they’re the 1st generation in their family to have the resources to have their child in private school. Their cultural values or anxiety about replicating their generation’s success mean that they want their child to be high-achieving and in a high-achieving environment and they want visible success.

3) higher security, content attitude about outcome: these parents are so rich that they don’t need to worry about their kids’ external achievements and can guide them towards following their passions, or they went through the tiger parent/high achievement gauntlet and don’t want their kids to experience the same thing for diminishing returns in a more competitive world.

4) lower security, striving: This group is divided but they all want high achievement from their kids and measurable results at their school. They might come from middle class backgrounds and be rich now, but feel anxiety about their social status and where they fit into their neighborhood or a private school community. They always want more. Or they might be recent immigrants who don’t have extensive networks or material wealth and rightly see their children’s achievements as a valuable future resource that will provide security.

The families in groups 1 and 3 have the highest social status at our school and they’re the ones everyone wants to be like, probably because they are confident and relaxed. But in reality, the anxieties of groups 2 and 4 are louder and what teachers and the administration have to respond to.

Chinatown PP here. This is fascinating and also mirrors my experience in a Bay Area private. You should write an essay or something…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, thank you for your reply because you exposed something that I should have been more clear about. I’m the poster you replied to.

My family is mixed. I’m white, DH is Asian and 1.5 generation (he’s immigrated twice; it’s complicated). Our background is similar to yours minus the unicorn tech company. The school I am talking about is 75% white and when I say that parents don’t know their values and are operating out of fear: that’s only the white parents. I thought and thought about it and the ones who complain about exmissions, about their kids’ scores being too low, etc: ALL white parents. The people buying their way out of pressure and the rat race are of every background and race but no one has less than 2nd generation kids.

There is SO much going on here and it’s not going to be unpacked in a DCUM thread. But it’s fascinating.

Chinatown PP here. I would be super curious to hear your thoughts on this and at least start to try to unpack it. Maybe DCUM isn't the forum for it, but I'd love to hear more of your opinions and observations at an elite private.

Independent school OP. I was thinking about this thread last night and going back to the original question and the idea of privilege and attitude about achievement/outcome and how those two things interact. Privilege seems to inform how the people who have it behave, but everyone is driven by how secure they feel in their place in society, so I think the quest for security is more of a common denominator in our specific community.

Our school families can be divided into four types. Imagine a graph with security on one axis and desire for achievement on the other- our families would be arrayed in 4 quadrants on this graph:

1) lower security, content attitude about outcome: these families are rare- they often grew up near our school when the city was more affordable and low-key and were able to fairly easily access competitive high schools and elite colleges when admissions were less difficult. They might have inherited a house and have a stable professional career, but they’re not tech millionaires. They recognize their relative privilege and know the odds of their children following in their footsteps is unlikely because of increased competition and demand for housing, elite schools, etc. but that they’ll have the security and status they’ve inherited, so they focus on other things.

2) higher security, striving: these parents are 1st generation kids of professional-class immigrants or they’re the 1st generation in their family to have the resources to have their child in private school. Their cultural values or anxiety about replicating their generation’s success mean that they want their child to be high-achieving and in a high-achieving environment and they want visible success.

3) higher security, content attitude about outcome: these parents are so rich that they don’t need to worry about their kids’ external achievements and can guide them towards following their passions, or they went through the tiger parent/high achievement gauntlet and don’t want their kids to experience the same thing for diminishing returns in a more competitive world.

4) lower security, striving: This group is divided but they all want high achievement from their kids and measurable results at their school. They might come from middle class backgrounds and be rich now, but feel anxiety about their social status and where they fit into their neighborhood or a private school community. They always want more. Or they might be recent immigrants who don’t have extensive networks or material wealth and rightly see their children’s achievements as a valuable future resource that will provide security.

The families in groups 1 and 3 have the highest social status at our school and they’re the ones everyone wants to be like, probably because they are confident and relaxed. But in reality, the anxieties of groups 2 and 4 are louder and what teachers and the administration have to respond to.

Chinatown PP here. This is fascinating and also mirrors my experience in a Bay Area private. You should write an essay or something…

Thanks, that’s flattering. Whatever the essay would be called, the subhead would be “why you’re only getting donations from 25% of your parents”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

Independent school OP. I was thinking about this thread last night and going back to the original question and the idea of privilege and attitude about achievement/outcome and how those two things interact. Privilege seems to inform how the people who have it behave, but everyone is driven by how secure they feel in their place in society, so I think the quest for security is more of a common denominator in our specific community.

Our school families can be divided into four types. Imagine a graph with security on one axis and desire for achievement on the other- our families would be arrayed in 4 quadrants on this graph:

1) lower security, content attitude about outcome: these families are rare- they often grew up near our school when the city was more affordable and low-key and were able to fairly easily access competitive high schools and elite colleges when admissions were less difficult. They might have inherited a house and have a stable professional career, but they’re not tech millionaires. They recognize their relative privilege and know the odds of their children following in their footsteps is unlikely because of increased competition and demand for housing, elite schools, etc. but that they’ll have the security and status they’ve inherited, so they focus on other things.

2) higher security, striving: these parents are 1st generation kids of professional-class immigrants or they’re the 1st generation in their family to have the resources to have their child in private school. Their cultural values or anxiety about replicating their generation’s success mean that they want their child to be high-achieving and in a high-achieving environment and they want visible success.

3) higher security, content attitude about outcome: these parents are so rich that they don’t need to worry about their kids’ external achievements and can guide them towards following their passions, or they went through the tiger parent/high achievement gauntlet and don’t want their kids to experience the same thing for diminishing returns in a more competitive world.

4) lower security, striving: This group is divided but they all want high achievement from their kids and measurable results at their school. They might come from middle class backgrounds and be rich now, but feel anxiety about their social status and where they fit into their neighborhood or a private school community. They always want more. Or they might be recent immigrants who don’t have extensive networks or material wealth and rightly see their children’s achievements as a valuable future resource that will provide security.

The families in groups 1 and 3 have the highest social status at our school and they’re the ones everyone wants to be like, probably because they are confident and relaxed. But in reality, the anxieties of groups 2 and 4 are louder and what teachers and the administration have to respond to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

Independent school OP. I was thinking about this thread last night and going back to the original question and the idea of privilege and attitude about achievement/outcome and how those two things interact. Privilege seems to inform how the people who have it behave, but everyone is driven by how secure they feel in their place in society, so I think the quest for security is more of a common denominator in our specific community.

Our school families can be divided into four types. Imagine a graph with security on one axis and desire for achievement on the other- our families would be arrayed in 4 quadrants on this graph:

1) lower security, content attitude about outcome: these families are rare- they often grew up near our school when the city was more affordable and low-key and were able to fairly easily access competitive high schools and elite colleges when admissions were less difficult. They might have inherited a house and have a stable professional career, but they’re not tech millionaires. They recognize their relative privilege and know the odds of their children following in their footsteps is unlikely because of increased competition and demand for housing, elite schools, etc. but that they’ll have the security and status they’ve inherited, so they focus on other things.

2) higher security, striving: these parents are 1st generation kids of professional-class immigrants or they’re the 1st generation in their family to have the resources to have their child in private school. Their cultural values or anxiety about replicating their generation’s success mean that they want their child to be high-achieving and in a high-achieving environment and they want visible success.

3) higher security, content attitude about outcome: these parents are so rich that they don’t need to worry about their kids’ external achievements and can guide them towards following their passions, or they went through the tiger parent/high achievement gauntlet and don’t want their kids to experience the same thing for diminishing returns in a more competitive world.

4) lower security, striving: This group is divided but they all want high achievement from their kids and measurable results at their school. They might come from middle class backgrounds and be rich now, but feel anxiety about their social status and where they fit into their neighborhood or a private school community. They always want more. Or they might be recent immigrants who don’t have extensive networks or material wealth and rightly see their children’s achievements as a valuable future resource that will provide security.

The families in groups 1 and 3 have the highest social status at our school and they’re the ones everyone wants to be like, probably because they are confident and relaxed. But in reality, the anxieties of groups 2 and 4 are louder and what teachers and the administration have to respond to.

Ugh! Not you again.
So long to this thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

This East Coast/West Coast mentality is toxic, exactly what this thread is about. Your poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1. I feel sorry for PP's kids. What if they don't want to work in any of those areas? What if they want to practice law, but not "corporate law"? Hopefully the suicidal ideations will only be ideations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1 Thinking about PP's analysis of the "types", I think I'd put my family in group #1. We're not at a private school but kids went to a high-achieving/UMC public HS. I think a lot of our contentment, or confidence, that our kids will do fine in life if we just support them in pursuing their interests and they go to solid but not “the best” colleges, mainly comes from looking around at the people we know, the young people we work with and in our families, and seeing that plenty of people are getting along fine in life without buying into this idea that the only way to success is a T20 college + doctor/lawyer/hot tech job. As long as you don't define "success" as making the absolute highest salary you possibly can.

DH and I and my siblings all went to middle of the road public colleges and have done just fine. Professional careers but not the big money dr/lawyer/etc. BIL's kids (all Millennials) didn’t go to college at all and all are gainfully employed and home owners (in a lower COL city). Among my large group of cousins, I’ve seen a lot of their kids launch into solid careers from a huge range of schools in recent years so it's not just an outdated GenX memory. I work with people from all kinds of colleges. I just don’t get the fear. I do acknowledge that my kids, particularly one interested in a less high-paying path, may need to set sights on lower COL areas but that’s the trade-off she will need to make in prioritizing her passion and she fully recognizes that. We did discuss it as she thought about majors, colleges, etc.

We’re not 1%’ers but are able to send the kids to college without debt (public U for one, LAC w/ merit for the other) and I anticipate they will each get some inheritance from my mom (now in her mid-80s) which will help them with an initial downpayment for a first home purchase. Those two things are a huge leg up for getting started in life. So yes, we are privileged but a lot less than other who seems so stressed out about this. Maybe because the higher you go in income, the harder it would be for your kids to replicate that income? Maybe that's just not a reasonable expectation at some point. Especially not if you have to destroy your kids' mental health in pursuit of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1 Thinking about PP's analysis of the "types", I think I'd put my family in group #1. We're not at a private school but kids went to a high-achieving/UMC public HS. I think a lot of our contentment, or confidence, that our kids will do fine in life if we just support them in pursuing their interests and they go to solid but not “the best” colleges, mainly comes from looking around at the people we know, the young people we work with and in our families, and seeing that plenty of people are getting along fine in life without buying into this idea that the only way to success is a T20 college + doctor/lawyer/hot tech job. As long as you don't define "success" as making the absolute highest salary you possibly can.

DH and I and my siblings all went to middle of the road public colleges and have done just fine. Professional careers but not the big money dr/lawyer/etc. BIL's kids (all Millennials) didn’t go to college at all and all are gainfully employed and home owners (in a lower COL city). Among my large group of cousins, I’ve seen a lot of their kids launch into solid careers from a huge range of schools in recent years so it's not just an outdated GenX memory. I work with people from all kinds of colleges. I just don’t get the fear. I do acknowledge that my kids, particularly one interested in a less high-paying path, may need to set sights on lower COL areas but that’s the trade-off she will need to make in prioritizing her passion and she fully recognizes that. We did discuss it as she thought about majors, colleges, etc.

We’re not 1%’ers but are able to send the kids to college without debt (public U for one, LAC w/ merit for the other) and I anticipate they will each get some inheritance from my mom (now in her mid-80s) which will help them with an initial downpayment for a first home purchase. Those two things are a huge leg up for getting started in life. So yes, we are privileged but a lot less than other who seems so stressed out about this. Maybe because the higher you go in income, the harder it would be for your kids to replicate that income? Maybe that's just not a reasonable expectation at some point. Especially not if you have to destroy your kids' mental health in pursuit of it.

Well, maybe that was possible for you because you grew up in the 90s and you're a Gen Xer. But nowadays, even previously affordable areas like Denver or Portland or Richmond are skyrocketing in prices. Young adults these days need to prioritize high-paying careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1 Thinking about PP's analysis of the "types", I think I'd put my family in group #1. We're not at a private school but kids went to a high-achieving/UMC public HS. I think a lot of our contentment, or confidence, that our kids will do fine in life if we just support them in pursuing their interests and they go to solid but not “the best” colleges, mainly comes from looking around at the people we know, the young people we work with and in our families, and seeing that plenty of people are getting along fine in life without buying into this idea that the only way to success is a T20 college + doctor/lawyer/hot tech job. As long as you don't define "success" as making the absolute highest salary you possibly can.

DH and I and my siblings all went to middle of the road public colleges and have done just fine. Professional careers but not the big money dr/lawyer/etc. BIL's kids (all Millennials) didn’t go to college at all and all are gainfully employed and home owners (in a lower COL city). Among my large group of cousins, I’ve seen a lot of their kids launch into solid careers from a huge range of schools in recent years so it's not just an outdated GenX memory. I work with people from all kinds of colleges. I just don’t get the fear. I do acknowledge that my kids, particularly one interested in a less high-paying path, may need to set sights on lower COL areas but that’s the trade-off she will need to make in prioritizing her passion and she fully recognizes that. We did discuss it as she thought about majors, colleges, etc.

We’re not 1%’ers but are able to send the kids to college without debt (public U for one, LAC w/ merit for the other) and I anticipate they will each get some inheritance from my mom (now in her mid-80s) which will help them with an initial downpayment for a first home purchase. Those two things are a huge leg up for getting started in life. So yes, we are privileged but a lot less than other who seems so stressed out about this. Maybe because the higher you go in income, the harder it would be for your kids to replicate that income? Maybe that's just not a reasonable expectation at some point. Especially not if you have to destroy your kids' mental health in pursuit of it.

Well, maybe that was possible for you because you grew up in the 90s and you're a Gen Xer. But nowadays, even previously affordable areas like Denver or Portland or Richmond are skyrocketing in prices. Young adults these days need to prioritize high-paying careers.

+1

Read this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1043100.page

"I think a big part of the problem is that wages have not kept up with inflation and increased cost of living. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to make a decent living. You have a select group of people (Big law, some IT, finance, etc) making insane amounts of money while everyone else is left behind. It’s a shame. We want smart folks to go into nursing, teaching, science/research, mental health, etc."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1 Thinking about PP's analysis of the "types", I think I'd put my family in group #1. We're not at a private school but kids went to a high-achieving/UMC public HS. I think a lot of our contentment, or confidence, that our kids will do fine in life if we just support them in pursuing their interests and they go to solid but not “the best” colleges, mainly comes from looking around at the people we know, the young people we work with and in our families, and seeing that plenty of people are getting along fine in life without buying into this idea that the only way to success is a T20 college + doctor/lawyer/hot tech job. As long as you don't define "success" as making the absolute highest salary you possibly can.

DH and I and my siblings all went to middle of the road public colleges and have done just fine. Professional careers but not the big money dr/lawyer/etc. BIL's kids (all Millennials) didn’t go to college at all and all are gainfully employed and home owners (in a lower COL city). Among my large group of cousins, I’ve seen a lot of their kids launch into solid careers from a huge range of schools in recent years so it's not just an outdated GenX memory. I work with people from all kinds of colleges. I just don’t get the fear. I do acknowledge that my kids, particularly one interested in a less high-paying path, may need to set sights on lower COL areas but that’s the trade-off she will need to make in prioritizing her passion and she fully recognizes that. We did discuss it as she thought about majors, colleges, etc.

We’re not 1%’ers but are able to send the kids to college without debt (public U for one, LAC w/ merit for the other) and I anticipate they will each get some inheritance from my mom (now in her mid-80s) which will help them with an initial downpayment for a first home purchase. Those two things are a huge leg up for getting started in life. So yes, we are privileged but a lot less than other who seems so stressed out about this. Maybe because the higher you go in income, the harder it would be for your kids to replicate that income? Maybe that's just not a reasonable expectation at some point. Especially not if you have to destroy your kids' mental health in pursuit of it.

Well, maybe that was possible for you because you grew up in the 90s and you're a Gen Xer. But nowadays, even previously affordable areas like Denver or Portland or Richmond are skyrocketing in prices. Young adults these days need to prioritize high-paying careers.

+1

Read this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1043100.page

"I think a big part of the problem is that wages have not kept up with inflation and increased cost of living. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to make a decent living. You have a select group of people (Big law, some IT, finance, etc) making insane amounts of money while everyone else is left behind. It’s a shame. We want smart folks to go into nursing, teaching, science/research, mental health, etc."

I know young recent grads going into these fields. Yeah, they may live in a condo vs. buying a SFH. Maybe live in Baltimore suburbs vs DC. Housing cost is definitely a huge factor and that is a problem. But ultimately, we do not help kids by insisting that there is only one path or they are doomed. That's the message too many get in these high achieving culture schools. It also is a belief that can lead people into getting into a lot of debt because they believe you can only be successful going to a top ranked (and expensive) college. And THAT is what holds you back in starting life. Housing is definitely too expensive but add that to a big student loam payment and it really becomes impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends with someone who did part-time work at one of the competitive (but not big three) schools in MoCo. She ended up leaving because she said the kids were so stressed out and fearful of anything short of perfection. She was a high achiever herself and from a highly competitive public school in the Northeast. She thought it was not the DMV but more the times.

It’s definitely the times. I live elsewhere and am involved in independent school leadership. We hear parents during admissions season say they want a supportive community, a low-pressure school focused on individuals, not achievement, and a place where their child is valued for who they are. And these parents genuinely want this- it’s not fake. But once their child is in school the script flips and they want to know why we aren’t testing, why exmissions weren’t “better”, comparisons to other area schools, and explanations for why their 2nd grader is doing pre-calc.

It is ALL fear and insecurity and it comes from parents who don’t actually know their own values and what they hold important. They are scared to be in touch with or even discuss what they’re trying to get out of in life, and they fall back on the safety of external validation and “achievement” once their children are old enough to be compared to others or have to compete for resources.

It’s probably the biggest problem facing schools, parents, and kids. And I have no idea how it can get fixed because so few people dare to walk away from the game- and those that do are often so privileged that they are actually the ones running the game and making the rules.

I think you ended up inadvertently nailing the point here --

But this definitely isn't the case in this day and age. The external markers of adulthood -- buying a house in a good pyramid, saving for your kids' college while also paying for daycare, medical expenses, and retirement, have all gotten incredibly expensive. Income inequality is at an all-time high.

To survive in this world, kids need to be at the top of their game economically. And that means that they have to CRUSH IT in their schoolwork and ECs in high school, get accepted into a reputable college (not necessarily an elite one, but at the very least a solid school like VA Tech), and major in CS or Finance or do pre-med.

After college graduation, young adults these days MUST go into tech or finance or into med school (with hopes of matching into a lucrative speciality, not something like pediatrics) if they want to be UMC (not rich, just comfortable) in this day and age.

DP. Fwiw, this is incorrect. Income inequality is at an all time high but that's a red herring. Aside from the 0.0001%, the MC is shrinking because the UMC/UC is increasing. The size of the LC is not growing, the MC are moving up. Gen Z has figured out that a college degree is not worth it for many people and companies/employers are dropping these requirements. While doctors and lawyers can be lucrative stable careers (or not), there are plenty of other avenues to UMC/UC lives for our kids.

It may be hard to see in the Bay Area, and it may be hard to see in the DMV, but we don't need to fight over Ivy/top tier schools for our kids. The pressure and insecurity is false.

PP here. No, you’re totally wrong. There are NOT a lot of other avenues to the UMC for kids these days except for tech, finance, medicine, consulting, or corporate law. And where you go to college matters — full stop.

You seem like a deluded privileged person. You’re probably in the first or third category of what the PP described:

============

There are not a lot of other avenues for YOUR kids outside of what you've listed, because you've made them believe that. But that is not true for all other UMC kids.

+1 Thinking about PP's analysis of the "types", I think I'd put my family in group #1. We're not at a private school but kids went to a high-achieving/UMC public HS. I think a lot of our contentment, or confidence, that our kids will do fine in life if we just support them in pursuing their interests and they go to solid but not “the best” colleges, mainly comes from looking around at the people we know, the young people we work with and in our families, and seeing that plenty of people are getting along fine in life without buying into this idea that the only way to success is a T20 college + doctor/lawyer/hot tech job. As long as you don't define "success" as making the absolute highest salary you possibly can.

DH and I and my siblings all went to middle of the road public colleges and have done just fine. Professional careers but not the big money dr/lawyer/etc. BIL's kids (all Millennials) didn’t go to college at all and all are gainfully employed and home owners (in a lower COL city). Among my large group of cousins, I’ve seen a lot of their kids launch into solid careers from a huge range of schools in recent years so it's not just an outdated GenX memory. I work with people from all kinds of colleges. I just don’t get the fear. I do acknowledge that my kids, particularly one interested in a less high-paying path, may need to set sights on lower COL areas but that’s the trade-off she will need to make in prioritizing her passion and she fully recognizes that. We did discuss it as she thought about majors, colleges, etc.

We’re not 1%’ers but are able to send the kids to college without debt (public U for one, LAC w/ merit for the other) and I anticipate they will each get some inheritance from my mom (now in her mid-80s) which will help them with an initial downpayment for a first home purchase. Those two things are a huge leg up for getting started in life. So yes, we are privileged but a lot less than other who seems so stressed out about this. Maybe because the higher you go in income, the harder it would be for your kids to replicate that income? Maybe that's just not a reasonable expectation at some point. Especially not if you have to destroy your kids' mental health in pursuit of it.

Do you recognize the privilege that you've grown up with and/or live now? You point towards your anecdata as reasons why college rankings don't matter, but peer-reviewed studies by Chetty and others have consistently shown that college rankings matter.