Biden as defender of “freedom” - how do we think this will go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

wrong

there are people on the right saying that

you just don't know any

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

also, who would you consider the strongest dissenting voices on the left? the ones who criticize the radicals openly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

That's the definition of the "chilling effect."

And?

You have the right to say whatever you want. Are you suggesting only you have the right but not others with contrasting viewpoints. If you want to use the N word, go for it, but expect blowback. That is all the PP is saying. Are you suggesting there shouldn't be blowback for using the N Word?

Should there be blowback for participating in BDS? For supporting the Palestinian cause? If not, why does it exist?

Stop pretending the "chilling effect" is some kind of cosmic justice. It's not. It's a product of a well motivated, well funded minority group that yells the loudest.

I mean imagine if JK Rowling was poor and not famous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

That's the definition of the "chilling effect."

And?

You have the right to say whatever you want. Are you suggesting only you have the right but not others with contrasting viewpoints. If you want to use the N word, go for it, but expect blowback. That is all the PP is saying. Are you suggesting there shouldn't be blowback for using the N Word?

Should there be blowback for participating in BDS? For supporting the Palestinian cause? If not, why does it exist?

Stop pretending the "chilling effect" is some kind of cosmic justice. It's not. It's a product of a well motivated, well funded minority group that yells the loudest.

I mean imagine if JK Rowling was poor and not famous?

We are living on the edge of a Christian Nationalist hijacking our country....I really don't care about any other "well funded minority group" until we get this threat eradicated. If that means there is a little pushback on BDS or some other relatively minor issues, then so be it. If you are too much of a snowflake to be bothered by this given the threat of an autocratic right wing takeover of the United States, then as Benjamin Franklin said, 'a republic, if we can keep it'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

That's the definition of the "chilling effect."

And?

You have the right to say whatever you want. Are you suggesting only you have the right but not others with contrasting viewpoints. If you want to use the N word, go for it, but expect blowback. That is all the PP is saying. Are you suggesting there shouldn't be blowback for using the N Word?

Should there be blowback for participating in BDS? For supporting the Palestinian cause? If not, why does it exist?

Stop pretending the "chilling effect" is some kind of cosmic justice. It's not. It's a product of a well motivated, well funded minority group that yells the loudest.

I mean imagine if JK Rowling was poor and not famous?

We are living on the edge of a Christian Nationalist hijacking our country....I really don't care about any other "well funded minority group" until we get this threat eradicated. If that means there is a little pushback on BDS or some other relatively minor issues, then so be it. If you are too much of a snowflake to be bothered by this given the threat of an autocratic right wing takeover of the United States, then as Benjamin Franklin said, 'a republic, if we can keep it'

yep, we're right on the cusp of Christian Nationalists controlling everything

good luck eradicating them, I mean, there are so MANY, and they run all the universities, and the big businesses, and the news outlets, and they make up basically the entire staff of the federal government, and I just don't know how they can ever be defeated

Handmaid's Tale is just fiction

however, the various accounts of left totalitarianism in the 20th century are not

[Anonymous]

Freedom to make our own healthcare decisions.
Freedom to love who we want to love.
Freedom to our right to privacy.
Freedom from corporate greed.
Freedom to breathe clean air.
Freedom to earn a fair wage.
Freedom from gun violence.
Freedom to learn.

I love how Democrats are reclaiming Freedom. MAGA Republicans can have their Freedumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

Freedom to kill a heartbeat
Freedom to put sexual books in child classrooms talking about blowjobs and other acts
Freedom to ignore rules and laws and get away with it
Freedom to lack the moral courage in everyday life and appreciate others

Freedom to tell people, "Hush up, boy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to make our own healthcare decisions.
Freedom to love who we want to love.
Freedom to our right to privacy.
Freedom from corporate greed.
Freedom to breathe clean air.
Freedom to earn a fair wage.
Freedom from gun violence.
Freedom to learn.

I love how Democrats are reclaiming Freedom. MAGA Republicans can have their Freedumb.

Those all sound good but I don’t think any of them are actually in the Bill of Rights? Also, how is any modern candidate going to deliver freedom from corporate greed? We’d have to blow up the entire economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

Freedom to kill a heartbeat
Freedom to put sexual books in child classrooms talking about blowjobs and other acts
Freedom to ignore rules and laws and get away with it
Freedom to lack the moral courage in everyday life and appreciate others

Freedom to tell people, "Hush up, boy"

Even the writer of one of the books Rs want out of school libraries says it shouldn’t be there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

NP. What I see is that ‘many on the left’ virtue signal by ‘agreeing’ that x or y is unAmerican, but they don’t really mean it. What has the left done re: HB? Nothing. Nada. Talk is cheap. Act

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

wrong

there are people on the right saying that

you just don't know any

Please post some links. The assertion rings hallow as I follow news pretty closely and have yet to see any sort of major leadership calling it out. Look at Liz Cheney as an example. She got banished like Adam Kinzinger too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

also, who would you consider the strongest dissenting voices on the left? the ones who criticize the radicals openly?

The left literally defended mass riots during Covid: “Oh, it’s outside”. “Oh, people are upset” and politicians were hilarious: “I am super super important so getting my hair done is critical” s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to make our own healthcare decisions.
Freedom to love who we want to love.
Freedom to our right to privacy.
Freedom from corporate greed.
Freedom to breathe clean air.
Freedom to earn a fair wage.
Freedom from gun violence.
Freedom to learn.

I love how Democrats are reclaiming Freedom. MAGA Republicans can have their Freedumb.

Those all sound good but I don’t think any of them are actually in the Bill of Rights? Also, how is any modern candidate going to deliver freedom from corporate greed? We’d have to blow up the entire economy.

Then you don't understand the bill of rights. go back to 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

if your paradigm for the entire right is Texas, then we should use Oregon for the left, and see where we find more nuts - or not, because that is a tiresome exercise repeated continually all over the Internet

moving on, your entire analysis of the free speech point is premised on the assumption that if someone gets mobbed, deplatformed, demoted, fired to deflect attention from their employer, etc. it must have been because they said something MORALLY AWFUL, as proven by the fact that the online public sphere, which dispenses this justice impartially, must be representative of the views of SOCIETY, and certainly not dominated by a small number of partisan lunatics (on both sides, of course) with various personality disorders, present DCUM company excluded because everyone is just on these forums to learn

maybe just reflect on those assumptions for a second

also I'm not on the right so save the "you people"

Here is the difference: many on the left would agree with your that there are some in Oregon who are very progressive to radical. But there isn't anyone on the right saying that what is happening in different red states is unamerican where trampling of rights is concerned. Where Dem leadership calls out those in the Dem party who do stupid or illlegal things and hold them accountable, no one is doing any such thing on the right.

see the difference?

wrong

there are people on the right saying that

you just don't know any

Please post some links. The assertion rings hallow as I follow news pretty closely and have yet to see any sort of major leadership calling it out. Look at Liz Cheney as an example. She got banished like Adam Kinzinger too.

NP, give us a subject. My guess is it will be some ‘sources who cannot be named said..’ news story or some twist of logic of a bill or law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freedom to have an abortion
Freedom to be LGBTQ+ without facing workplace discrimination
Freedom to speak as one likes and not be expelled from the legislature
Freedom to not be indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalist culture at school


I can keep going

please do

elaborate on how schools, permeated with DEI initiatives, social and emotional learning, etc. teach "Christian fundamentalist culture"

also please elaborate on the Left's efforts to defend freedom of speech for regular citizens

Texas wants prayer and the Ten Commandments in public schools.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2023/04/21/ten-commandments-and-prayer-in-public-schools-texas-senate-approves-religious-bills/

Except, some of us are Hindu, or Muslim, and that's not part of our scripture. And, the Ten Commandments has absolutely nothing to do with federal or state law, so why is it being brought in to glare down on school children as if it's law? What if you're Jewish and you don't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and pray the way the school says you should?

And as for "regular citizens and free speech" versus the left... you people on the right seem to have a funny idea about what free speech is, and how it works.

People on the left aren't forbidding you from saying anything. But what they are doing is, if you say something that's racist, misogynist, or a lie, et cetera they will call you out for it, and if that goes viral, there's likelihood of you being embarrassed, having it catch the attention of your employer, your sponsor, your advertisers et cetera, who in turn may have the right to fire you, to pull support from you, et cetera. You have the right to speak, but the problem you on the right seem to have trouble understanding is that free speech is not a one way street. You have the right to say what you want, but others also have the right to speak, and to counter what you said. THAT is how free speech works. You HAVE free speech - nobody ever took that away from you - but need to understand that it can come with consequences. A better solution would be to not say jackass things in the first place, if you don't want to be called out for being a jackass. But that choice is also yours to freely make, or not.

That's the definition of the "chilling effect."

And?

You have the right to say whatever you want. Are you suggesting only you have the right but not others with contrasting viewpoints. If you want to use the N word, go for it, but expect blowback. That is all the PP is saying. Are you suggesting there shouldn't be blowback for using the N Word?

Should there be blowback for participating in BDS? For supporting the Palestinian cause? If not, why does it exist?

Stop pretending the "chilling effect" is some kind of cosmic justice. It's not. It's a product of a well motivated, well funded minority group that yells the loudest.

I mean imagine if JK Rowling was poor and not famous?

We are living on the edge of a Christian Nationalist hijacking our country....I really don't care about any other "well funded minority group" until we get this threat eradicated. If that means there is a little pushback on BDS or some other relatively minor issues, then so be it. If you are too much of a snowflake to be bothered by this given the threat of an autocratic right wing takeover of the United States, then as Benjamin Franklin said, 'a republic, if we can keep it'

yep, we're right on the cusp of Christian Nationalists controlling everything

good luck eradicating them, I mean, there are so MANY, and they run all the universities, and the big businesses, and the news outlets, and they make up basically the entire staff of the federal government, and I just don't know how they can ever be defeated

Handmaid's Tale is just fiction

however, the various accounts of left totalitarianism in the 20th century are not

Who are the left totalitarians in the US? Are you comparing wanting healthcare with authoritariansim? And you ignore how limiting a woman's right to control her body or what books can be read or what a corporation can say from the right? That is either ignorant or ridiculously dangerous.