Does anyone else not want to live to be very old?

[Anonymous]

It all depends on my health. I want to be living, not merely existing.

[Anonymous]

My grandmother is in her late 90s and has been remarkably healthy until the past couple of years. She traveled alone every winter until COVID and I think having to be isolated from her friends during that time really took a toll on her. She’s told me many times that it’s getting more lonely each year as her family and friends die. So I think I’d be fine living to an old age but I wouldn’t want to outlive my children or the rest of my family.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I do not want to live past the point of utility. I make an effort to maintain good health and shudder at the possibility of spending years (decades) sucking up money and resources to stay “alive” despite having terrible health issues.

If I am looking down the barrel at a debilitating chronic condition or a fatal condition, I will go to a country that supports assisted suicide. I would much rather my husband not be bogged down with my caretaking and want my kids to get money rather than watch me wither.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve had TMJ since my teens. While the likelihood of health problems may increase as you age, there aren’t certainties. A lot of general health is related to lifestyle. I’ve also had the heartburn problems since my mid 40s (I think partly due to a hernia and partly due to bad gut health. Eating probiotics helped a lot.)

Of my four grandparents (all of whom I think lived into their 80s), the two who never gave up smoking cigarettes (heavily), had severe health problems and a lot of pain. The grandfather who had smoked mostly cigars and given them up decades earlier (50s/early 60s?), had a heart attack when he was planting trees in his yard.

My parents are in their 70s. My mom had a terrible stroke in 2021 and it was basically a miracle she survived. While she had a terrible year, through the grace of God, the support of my father, and incredible hard work (she’s a formidable woman), she’s pretty much made a full recovery (just a slight tremor in one hand when she gets tired). She travels, drives herself around town, plays the piano, visits friends, crafts, walks over a mile a day, and does what she wants to do. I’m pretty sure she’s in better shape than I am at 51.

My father is slowing down some, but still leads a full life. He can no longer lift heavy things, and probably has to hire people for home/yard maintenance and repair he would have done previously. I don’t think he misses mowing the yard, and considering his handyman skills, the house is probably better off in tge hands of a professional. Meanwhile, last November, he drove my mom 900 miles for a holiday in Vegas and then 900 miles back home.

My ex-father-in-law is in his 80s. I think he’s slowing down a little now, but until recently, he was cycling (a lot) daily and would travel around the world scuba diving.

My ex-mother-in-law, unfortunately passed away several years ago in her 70s. She had been leading an active lifestyle, including playing tennis, being an avid gardener, and visiting us from Georgia every year.

I think you can have a high quality of life in your 80s. While there are, of course, a myriad of interacting variables, I think if you avoid smoking, minimize alcohol consumption, and have daily exercise (this is where I fall short) to maintain bone density, muscle tone, and cardiovascular health, your chances of having “golden” years rise significantly.

My parents did all those "right" things and like you, they loved to blame anyone who declined poorly until they started rapidly declining.

Also, in my family there is tremendous denial of reality. They brag about being "sharp as a tack" and a good convo with that person and you realize the person is totally declining. They make up excuses about grandpa getting lost driving home from the store or grandma peeing in the laundry room because she thought it was the bathroom in a home she lived in for decades. It's like Facebook. The couple bragging about being madly in love are getting divorced. In my family, bragging about how well elders are aging usually means Dementia has already hit and it's in the elephant in the room. If you have the nerve to see the elephant, everyone gaslights you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve had TMJ since my teens. While the likelihood of health problems may increase as you age, there aren’t certainties. A lot of general health is related to lifestyle. I’ve also had the heartburn problems since my mid 40s (I think partly due to a hernia and partly due to bad gut health. Eating probiotics helped a lot.)

Of my four grandparents (all of whom I think lived into their 80s), the two who never gave up smoking cigarettes (heavily), had severe health problems and a lot of pain. The grandfather who had smoked mostly cigars and given them up decades earlier (50s/early 60s?), had a heart attack when he was planting trees in his yard.

My parents are in their 70s. My mom had a terrible stroke in 2021 and it was basically a miracle she survived. While she had a terrible year, through the grace of God, the support of my father, and incredible hard work (she’s a formidable woman), she’s pretty much made a full recovery (just a slight tremor in one hand when she gets tired). She travels, drives herself around town, plays the piano, visits friends, crafts, walks over a mile a day, and does what she wants to do. I’m pretty sure she’s in better shape than I am at 51.

My father is slowing down some, but still leads a full life. He can no longer lift heavy things, and probably has to hire people for home/yard maintenance and repair he would have done previously. I don’t think he misses mowing the yard, and considering his handyman skills, the house is probably better off in tge hands of a professional. Meanwhile, last November, he drove my mom 900 miles for a holiday in Vegas and then 900 miles back home.

My ex-father-in-law is in his 80s. I think he’s slowing down a little now, but until recently, he was cycling (a lot) daily and would travel around the world scuba diving.

My ex-mother-in-law, unfortunately passed away several years ago in her 70s. She had been leading an active lifestyle, including playing tennis, being an avid gardener, and visiting us from Georgia every year.

I think you can have a high quality of life in your 80s. While there are, of course, a myriad of interacting variables, I think if you avoid smoking, minimize alcohol consumption, and have daily exercise (this is where I fall short) to maintain bone density, muscle tone, and cardiovascular health, your chances of having “golden” years rise significantly.

My parents did all those "right" things and like you, they loved to blame anyone who declined poorly until they started rapidly declining.

Also, in my family there is tremendous denial of reality. They brag about being "sharp as a tack" and a good convo with that person and you realize the person is totally declining. They make up excuses about grandpa getting lost driving home from the store or grandma peeing in the laundry room because she thought it was the bathroom in a home she lived in for decades. It's like Facebook. The couple bragging about being madly in love are getting divorced. In my family, bragging about how well elders are aging usually means Dementia has already hit and it's in the elephant in the room. If you have the nerve to see the elephant, everyone gaslights you.

I am the PP you are quoting and I was neither blaming nor bragging. I was simply trying to point out that some people can and do live full lives even when they’re elderly. Hitting 70 or 80 doesn’t automatically doom everyone to health problems, nor does youth exempt you. I specifically said there are “a myriad of interacting variables”. Moreover, I identified myself as having some of those health problems, myself, even as a teenager. My whole point, that I apparently didn’t communicate effectively, is that there are no guarantees at any age (good or bad), and that OP might have some wonderful years ahead of them, even as they age.

[Anonymous]

Before I had kids I'd say the same thing as you, OP. But now that I have kids, and had them rather later in life (in my 40s), I want to live until at least 80 to see them grown and established and maybe even become parents themselves.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I think the person who said I wasn't afraid of getting old but of being not well was right. But like someone else said, I do think that doing the "right things" healthwise can help you stay well longer. But they aren't guaranteed. My father is a doctor who has been a vegetarian most of his life and exercises faithfully like five times a week and stays intellectually active. But prostate problems left him virtually unable to sleep because he constantly had to pee, and prostate surgery didn't leave him that much better off. He certainly doesn't seem like a happy person--but then he never has.

I do think there is a personality component. One of my grandmothers loved life, and she was very outgoing and social, and until she had a stroke that really compromised her quality of life, I think she really enjoyed living--despite aches and pains. My other grandmother was always sort of a negative person. She smoked, and she died of lung cancer. But I don't really think she even fought. She'd just had enough. Honestly, I think am more like her than my extroverted grandmother. Sometimes, even now, I am sort of bored with life. I think I've done most of the enjoyable things. Sure. I'm sure there are more, but I've already lived a full life.

I do think about my child. If I were to get cancer now, I would fight it. Because I think my child still needs me, despite being an older teenager. But at a certain point, you can start becoming a burden on your children. My mother essentially became my grandmother's full time caretaker after her stroke, even despite assisted living, and it took a huge toll on her. I think once my kid is about 30....35....I mean no one wants to lose a parent they love. (I hope my kid will love me then.) But I also don't want to be a burden.

Of course, the whole question is really moot. We don't usually have a say. Do we. I don't think I am brave enough to end things...it would depend how much pain I was in. And I can't really just choose to pack it in at 65 or 70. Or not to. My friend said, "Every day is a blessing," and she reminded me of a friend of ours who had died of cancer, after a long drawn out illness. But that's really not true. Every day of illness of our friend's life was NOT really a blessing. She chose to keep fighting the illness, but she knew she was going to die. I sometimes wonder if the quality was worth the quantity.

[Anonymous]

Here is the article

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/

My parents loved this article. One dropped dead out of the blue the day before turning 75. The other one is 80 wasting away with Alzheimer's.

[Anonymous]

I would say 80 is about how long I want to live assuming I stay relatively healthy. However, both my grandmother's lived into their 90s into a long and slow decline so maybe that will be my fate. But really I just pray that when its my time it comes quickly. After seeing what nursing homes can be like (and what they cost) I hope I die before I even end up in one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the article

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/

My parents loved this article. One dropped dead out of the blue the day before turning 75. The other one is 80 wasting away with Alzheimer's.

Interesting article but in some ways a little off I think. For instance he says this:

"Americans seem to be obsessed with exercising, doing mental puzzles, consuming various juice and protein concoctions, sticking to strict diets, and popping vitamins and supplements, all in a valiant effort to cheat death and prolong life as long as possible. This has become so pervasive that it now defines a cultural type: what I call the American immortal.

I reject this aspiration. I think this manic desperation to endlessly extend life is misguided and potentially destructive."

I think people who do all those things are trying to insure that their older years will be healthy rather than sick and feeble, not trying to live as long as possible. I think there are very few people who just want to live as long as possible, like into their 90s or 100. I think most people want to live to see their grandchildren, want to enjoy retirement if they can be relatively active and sharp, and then want to die a quick and painless death without being a burden on others. That would typically translate into dying in your late 70s or 80s, sooner for some people.

[Anonymous]

I’ve spent the last 7 years working as a caregiver, primarily to hospice status patients. A few were unfortunate untimely deaths from cancer, stroke and early onset Alzheimer’s, but the majority were very elderly folks in their mid to late 90s. As I write this post I am sitting vigil with my current patient, a 96 year old woman who I have been caring for on hospice for the last 16 months - yes sometimes hospice takes a long time, the dying of a body is an unpredictable thing. This lovely lady has taught me a lot about life and what it is to really live - and how brutal it can be to have declined to a point where your body doesn’t work much at all, you cannot toilet yourself, you can barely feed yourself and can only chew a little so your enjoyment of even the basic things of life is seriously curtailed. This lovely lady has been in emotional pain for the entire time I’ve known her, desperate to be free from the prison her body has become and the endless Groundhog Day her life has become. We wouldn’t make a dog live this way, with so little quality of life.

My grandmother and great grandmother lived into their 90s, but my mother died in her early 70s. She had been a heavy smoker for decades and had advanced COPD, plus she was in an abusive marriage for decades and didn’t have any zest for living for many years so I think she was ready to succumb to whatever. My grandmother was an upbeat person and still planting flower boxes every spring into her 90s. If I could be that I wouldn’t mind the extra years, but if I was plagued with serious chronic illnesses that limited my mobility and caused chronic pain I would be much less inclined to stick around. I became a hospice caregiver when my own health broke down and I had to quit practicing law at 45. It took several years for medicine to figure out all my issues and in the meantime I gained a lot of weight, so when this patient dies I’m taking a few months off to focus hardcore on my own health and establishing a routine of self care which I’ve never really had - I spent decades as a workaholic getting poor sleep and taking little care of myself and the toll on my health was huge, I fully expect my lifespan was shortened by the near decade of chronic insomnia I suffered among other serious issues. I now feel very strongly that I need to take care of myself and get my body to feeling better to make the most of whatever years I have left. Getting my body strong so it can withstand the devastations of aging as well as possible is a priority for me - I’ve seen what happens to people who sit down in retirement and rarely get up again - the core strength goes very quickly in sedentary elders meaning anyone 65+ so if you aren’t doing anything about exercising or building strength your quality of life will quickly decline especially if/when you start losing balance and start having falls.

I’ve definitely seen some 90-somethings who still have a great quality of life, but they are the minority. In my opinion it’s mostly about what you have going on, if anything. Too many elders have nothing going on and spend most of their time sitting. Sitting is terrible for the human body, period. We were not made to sit.

I agree with Dr. Emanuel about limited medical interventions after 75. Depending on the diagnosis, I would be very unlikely to treat any cancer after 75. In very few cases - like Jimmy Carter’s- a very elderly person can complete cancer treatment and still have a good quality of life. For most people it’s the start of the closing of doors and windows and the narrowing of life.

I hold open the possibility that my mind will change with actual personal experience - I certainly know a lot about it the endless capacity of the human mind to surprise us. But at this point I would say that I have no desire whatever to be living when I can no longer wash, toilet and feed myself. I have plans in mind for when that happens but I sure wish by the time is does we have medical aid in dying so I won’t have to rely on methods which might not be foolproof. The biggest fear of my life after doing this work I’ve done the last few years is to end up incapacitated and at the mercy of others.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to hear of your experiences. But I think what you're saying is that you don't want to spend many years in poor health or experiencing pain. That's different than aging. Like everyone, I know of people who were unfortunate to age badly. But I also know a woman who comfortably walked several miles every day and then died in her sleep at 90; someone who played tennis regularly until 6 months before his death in his late 80s, and someone who just started using a walker when he turned 98, then died after a brief illness the next year. I hope to live a long and healthy life. I know much of it is out of my control, but I can increase the odds by staying active, both physically and socially.

[Anonymous]

I guess it all boils down to your health. I'm in my early 70s and other than being diabetic, which is well-controlled, I am in good health. I don't feel any different than being in my 20s. Not ready to go yet.

[Anonymous]

Agree. I am not afraid of dying, just suffering, or living like hell for too long. It depends on how bad things are and it's all about quality of life, IMO. I'm thinking to early 80s based on family history and what I've observed. Once I can't safely drive myself (or get myself independently to and from places), and have too much chronic pain, etc. I'm seriously going to do whatever it takes to end it. I have told my kids this, and it upsets them, but my mom is 91 and has been just existing in the long downward spiral for at least the last 8 years.

[Anonymous]

I'm an RN and I've seen a lot of people whose quality of life is very limited/minimal. I really do not want to be alive if I can't independently take care of myself (whatever that age may be). I hope that assisted suicide is something that becomes more of a feasible option here in the U.S. If not, I hope that if I were to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's or some other debilitating or terminal illness I'm able to travel to Switzerland (or another country where it's legal) to do it. I know it's quite an extensive process. I recently read a memoir title (In Love by Amy Bloom) about the writer's husband's dementia diagnosis and subsequent assisted suicide-it's a difficult and time consuming endeavor.