How can I request cleaning help wear something more... modest?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:On one hand, you are the employer, so it seems like your employee should abide by your comfort zone (as long as it is legal). BUT, what if you wanted her to wear a veil in your home, that would be going too far in my opinion.

How about your hire a cleaning person through an agency (which usually protects them and you more anyway, in terms of benefits/being bonded, etc). When you first put in the request, explain that due to your cultural/religious beliefs/customs, you would appreciate it if the person they send does not wear X, Y, Z (don't label it as modest, be specific, since "modest" is subjective). That way you are describing a work requirement, not insulting an individual.

Why do people keep saying that OP is the employer? It sounds like this is a cleaning lady, not a full-time housekeeper. So OP is not the employer.

Ok. OP is the client. It’s still a reasonable request.

Would it be reasonable for your employer to ask you to start wearing a headscarf to work, now that they've been bought by a Saudi conglomerate? After all, it's part of their religion.

I’m a therapist and own my own practice. It would be reasonable for a client to tell me that they would prefer that I wear a headscarf while I am with them. And it would also be completely reasonable for me to say that I am not comfortable with that and to work it out or refer them elsewhere.

If you’re a therapist, you surely recognize the differences between a therapist- client relationship and the type of relationship that the OP is describing. So, interesting observations, but not really relevant. Let’s flip it. Would it be reasonable for you to ask a client to wear a head scarf? Would it be reasonable for your clients to ask you to purchase entire outfits to wear during your sessions with them — when the outfits may cost far more than the fee they’re paying you? Would it be reasonable for them to bring you an outfit that meets their standards for acceptability? If any of these questions has made you cringe, even a little bit, then maybe some empathy and insight have been achieved.

Look. I’m not saying it’s a perfect analogy. It’s just a response to some asking me if it would be okay if my employer asked me to wear a headscarf.

Yes. Someone bringing in an outfit for me to wear or requesting that I purchase something specific to wear during sessions with them would be unusual behavior. And people suggesting that the OP purchase a uniform are out of line.

However, asking someone politely to choose a t-shirt instead of a tank top when they come to your home is reasonable. And, in my experience, most women need more encouragement to be assertive and ask for things that they want.

Has anyone ever asked you this, though? If not, again, I urge you to think about the potential power dynamics involved here. I trust that you would be equally supportive of the other woman. What would you say to a client that told you that although they were appropriately dressed, someone that they worked for a few hours a month, wanted them to change their clothes — to conform with religious beliefs that your client did not share. How would you support THIS client in being assertive and empowered in standing up to an unreasonable request?

I don’t think talking about specifics about my therapy sessions is appropriate for this forum. I will say that I work in a psychiatric emergency room on occasion, and everyone who works there has a dress code or a uniform. This is not unusual in a workplace.

As I initially said, OP is within her rights to ask, and the other woman is within her rights to refuse. Then they can either work it out or go their separate ways.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sexism.

You would never ask a man to change his clothes. If a plumber came to unclog your toilet you would not ask him to wear a non-offensive t-shirt.

Actually, the guy who came to fix our kitchen sink was not expecting our family when he put on his All Lives Matter t-shirt that morning. DH is a 6 foot 4 dark-skinned black man. The guy asked to use the bathroom and when he came out, his shirt was on inside out. No words exchanged about it.

Right? And if he was coming every week for hours, it would be fine to ask him to wear a non-offensive shirt.

The sexism is coming from the women on this thread who believe that OP should be quiet and demure and not dare to offend someone by expressing her thoughts. Not to mention those who believe that she should be cleaning her own home.

Then there’s the sexism, possibly classism, and maybe even a few other isms associated with feeling privileged enough to tell someone else what clothes they should wear because they’re working in your home for a couple of hours — because of your personal religious beliefs.
I think it’s unfortunate that someone who feels the need to control what other people wear didn’t realize this about herself. Had she hired someone who shared her standards about modest dress or simply shared her expectations PRIOR to hiring someone, none of this would be an issue.

How is this classist. It’s not The Handmaids Tale where only wives wear a certain color and Op wants the cleaning lady to wear that instead of the sad grey that “poor women” wear. No one is asking her to come in wearing a business suit. I’m sure whatever store she shops at also sells clothes with sleeves and without low cut tops.

Expecting someone to conform to your expectations about clothing — based on religious beliefs, because you’re paying them for a few hours of work. There is nothing to suggest that the woman’s clothing is inappropriate. So presumably richer OP gets to tell a working class woman what to wear and how to spend her hard earned cash on clothing — just to please the OP’s fragile religious sensibilities for a few hours. Possible classism.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You don't. If you want people to respect you and your beliefs, then you need to respect yours, even if they're different. Respect is a two ways street and it's very hypocritical to expect her to respect you when you clearly don't respect her different beliefs about modesty.

Adding to that--she's working HARD and working up a sweat. Let the woman where whatever she needs to in order to avoid overheating. Do you exercise in turtlenecks and jeans?

You would be body shaming her and that is NEVER okay.

Signed--
Someone who grew up in a religiously conservative and modest/shaming household but got tired of other people micromanaging my body and left the religion and gained my independence. It was the most freeing moment of my life.

Wait, if the cleaning lady is coming into a uber religious home and is wearing tight, low cut things that's not respecting the OP. I'm all about body positivity but when I go to dinner at my very religious Muslim neighbor's house, or going to my Hasidic friend's gathering I'm not going to wear a short skirt or show cleavage. That's not body shaming... it's common sense.

It sounds like the cleaning lady is wearing a tank top and leggings. Cheap comfortable clothes to do manual labor.

OP wants her to wear sweatshirt.

The OP specifically said she would be okay with yoga pants and a sleeveless shirt on the first page of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can either accept her as she is, or fire her and hire someone else who will dress like a nun and possibly do as good a job or possibly not.

If YOU want to dress modestly, then YOU do that. You can NOT control other people.

DP.
I disagree. Have you ever heard of corporate dress code? "Professional" attire? As a manager/HR professional, you ABSOUTELY CAN control other people and tell them to dress professionally for the job. How is this case different? Is it not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is she Eastern European? If yes, they are the best cleaning ladies (I mean if they are good, they are REALLY good). Their standards can’t compare to most other cleaning ladies. They see what needs to be cleaned and you don’t have to point out obvious things to them.
If this is the case I would not say a word about her outfit. She is probably just clueless and thinks she is dressed in style.

Best answer on this thread!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny, on the fashion forum you all can’t wait to call someone’s low cut, revealing, too tight, bra visible, clothes trashy. Now suddenly it’s empowering to dress like this?

Where did anyone say it was empowering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she Eastern European? If yes, they are the best cleaning ladies (I mean if they are good, they are REALLY good). Their standards can’t compare to most other cleaning ladies. They see what needs to be cleaned and you don’t have to point out obvious things to them.
If this is the case I would not say a word about her outfit. She is probably just clueless and thinks she is dressed in style.

Best answer on this thread!

Really, I think it makes NO sense that this style of dress is acceptable or not based upon your country of origin.

[Anonymous]

Do the dime game:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dbcbd4e4b02e0b953a7d92/t/5b76f4370e2e7218015a025e/1534522423179/IE+6.pdf

I have you between $0.30 and $0.80 depending on whether you feel you pay her well and how important this is to you personally and your long term goals. So, somewhere between strongly hinting and assertively asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really not trying to body shame. For example, I don't care if someone is wearing a two piece bikini at the pool. But its a little weird for someone to wear something you would wear to the club while cleaning a house. I'm not talking about her wearing yoga pants and sleeveless tops, I'm talking about leather pants and such.

As a fellow Christian raised by extremely strict parents, I am asking you to have compassion on her. Cleaning ladies are very far from the top of the social ladder. I can, as a woman of color, understand that a person doing this work might feel the need to emphasize her femininity and attractiveness. Just this weekend the kids and I were reading in Matthew 7-8 about the criticism that the choice of Jesus to dine with known "publicans and sinners" attracted from others in the community. I would want to build trust with her and then -- if she is a young person who may not be fully aware of the impact her sartorial choices on potential employers and others -- gently raise the issue, not out of a wish to impose my standards on her but to cause reflect in a way that may ultimately help her achieve her life goals.

Your post is worse than OP's.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
This is so easy. Show her a picture of what you want. Give her money for three of those outfits.

She'll be delighted, particularly if all you say is cover more skin. But even if you're more specific, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a dress code.

I'm very surprised by the negative reactions of others about this, but then I'm European. We don't go to work dressed in something the cat dragged in.

How strange, I've had many European cleaning ladies and they've worn pretty awful outfits. How long have you been cleaning homes?

Also, you can have a dress code for employees. This woman is not an employee. She is a business owner, and OP is one of her many clients. OP cannot enforce a dress code.

And LOL at European cleaning women being such elegant dressers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny, on the fashion forum you all can’t wait to call someone’s low cut, revealing, too tight, bra visible, clothes trashy. Now suddenly it’s empowering to dress like this?

Where did anyone say it was empowering?

No one did. It's posters demonstrating their terrible critical reading and thinking skills. You can dislike how the woman dresses, but that's not the issue here. The issue is whether you should request that someone who is cleaning your house a couple times a week can wear clothing that conforms to your religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

“Hey. First of all, you are doing a fantastic job, and we are so lucky to have found you. Is there anything we can do to make you happier here?

I feel odd asking this, and I don’t know if you noticed, but we like to dress pretty modestly. I don’t wear tight shirts, and we teach our daughters to dress conservatively as well. I really want to be consistent in showing them how we dress in our home. Would you mind wearing something a little higher cut when you are here? A t-shirt or sleeveless top and leggings would work. I would be really grateful, and I could increase your pay $15/week as a thank you for putting up with me being difficult.”

[Anonymous]

When you go to Whole Foods or Wegmans in these parts of the world half the people look like Derelicte is their favourite brand, but my-oh-my! how many of the same people have these very strong ideas of how Eastern Europeans dress

Btw, these days even Russian society ladies look more like this, not like a prostitute out of a 90s movie:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you go to Whole Foods or Wegmans in these parts of the world half the people look like Derelicte is their favourite brand, but my-oh-my! how many of the same people have these very strong ideas of how Eastern Europeans dress

Btw, these days even Russian society ladies look more like this, not like a prostitute out of a 90s movie:

Yes, that woman is clearly a housecleaner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an incredibly inappropriate ask. Even if you ask her and she changes her clothing, she will know the colour of your soul.

+1 Wildly inappropriate. How is her choice of clothing hurting you?

+1000

Why would someone try to restrict a woman's choice to wear what she wants - especially after you asked her to scrub your filthy toilets for next-to-no pay?