Admitting you are Asian (college apps)

[Anonymous]

Asian boys have to face an ever higher barrier to good schools, while Asian girls fill the need to recruit women to STEM fields.

Anyone noticed that the magnet programs in MD have become the feeders to UMD? This year the RM IB program has 51 students going to UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is also at TJ, not that matters. I have always wondered why Indian doesn't count as Asian by the racial bean counters. Personally, I think the only appropriate answer to racial questions is "F you."

Actually, people whose ancestry dates back to India are considered Asian (southeast Asian)

India is not southeast Asia. We know we are considered Asian. And we know our ancestry is South Asian.

We also don't need other races constantly trying to tell us about ourselves, our history, our culture, our religions, this has been the theme in all Western countries since colonial days.

PP here. I may have misstated my original point. Too much day drinking. Anyways, the issue is that racial classifications are also too broad to be helpful. Does an Egyptian have much in common with someone from South Africa? Etc. TJ is considered non-diverse because it is majority Asian, yet those with East Asian and South Asian ancestry have different backgrounds. Furthermore, they are lumped together for college admissions purposes.

Hispanics have the same issue. and Middle Eastern Groups feel altogether invisible.

Then you have people who ask whey we even count people this way.

it is a contentious topic.

Agreed. Especially when you consider that Middle Easterners are counted as “white” in official statistics. It’s ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you can see how being Asian Am. is a strike against your child when it comes to some college admissions.

The only way around this is:
1. apply to a university that has low Asian Am. numbers
2. your kid has to bust his/her a$$ to not only get stellar grades/scores, but also have amazing e.c., solve world hunger, and cure cancer.

The other option is to choose a good state university that doesn't look at race. This is what I'm telling my kids to do.

My half Asian children are smart, in a magnet program, and they do have e.c.; one loves performing arts. Even so, their background is a strike against them when applying to certain universities.

This is good advice. Love your in state option and make sure your dc knows it is just fine to go to UMD etc. Top 20 is tough for Asian kids especially Ivies. For perspective 7% of Asian American students have SAT scores above 1500. In a magnet program everyone has SAT scores above 1500. It is really hard to stand out and many Asian American students don’t have the kind of hooks elite schools like (parents who attended as undergraduates, recruited athletes, first generation college student etc.).
For what it’s worth OP my ds was upfront about his Asian heritage. He was not going to hide it and certainly never going to lie about it. He just hoped that whoever read his file would do so without prejudice. He got into great schools (not top 20) and decided to attend UMD. He has many bright, high achieving, creative, social, funny caring Asian American kids who will be joining him. These kids don’t see themselves as two dimensional. Frankly my main concern as a parent isn’t that my child might get shut out of an Ivy I am more concerned that they might internalize the negative stereotypes about high achieving Asian American students as preppers, introverted, lacking in creativity and intellectual curiosity etc. That can be very damaging for a young person.

I believe Asians students with high stats who focus less on IVs and more on slacs will have a very good outcome.

IMO, the problem is that many want to major in something like CS, and SLACS aren't really known for their stellar CS programs.

Also, even within SLACS, it depends on the program. My niece, who is Asian, wanted to major in Bio at a great SLAC. There are lots of Asian female Bio majors in these SLACS.

Basically, you either have to major in something that's not popular within this group or go to a univ. that doesn't look at race.

CS is usually taught at SLACs. And they do a better job IMO. They are not usually “impacted” like they are at UC schools.

Which SLAC has a great CS program reputation? I'm not talking Harvard level, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian boys have to face an ever higher barrier to good schools, while Asian girls fill the need to recruit women to STEM fields.

Anyone noticed that the magnet programs in MD have become the feeders to UMD? This year the RM IB program has 51 students going to UMD.

Cause it's a good school and cheaper. I would be happy if my RMIB kid went there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In response to an earlier comment in this thread,

"I don’t see a ton of Asian CEOs, senators or finance guys ect running America. If your talking about Stem where Asians are mostly employees and not public facing the majority of Asians are not in the high ranking positions. Many are trapped in jobs doing the science/math with few opportunities to lead."

I thought I would point out that the CEOs of Google, Microsoft, IBM, and Adobe are all Indian-Americans, as are the CEOs of Mastercard and Deloitte. If one ventures across the Atlantic, the CEOs of both Novartis and Dageo are Indian-Americans. Until 2019, the CEO of Pepsico was also an Indian-American. A small sample no doubt, but certainly a noteworthy one.

If Indian-Americans aren’t Asians, what are they? Are they whites? Blacks? I am just confused.

Last time I checked India was in Asia. I know geography is not Americans’ strong suit but come on people!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you can see how being Asian Am. is a strike against your child when it comes to some college admissions.

The only way around this is:
1. apply to a university that has low Asian Am. numbers
2. your kid has to bust his/her a$$ to not only get stellar grades/scores, but also have amazing e.c., solve world hunger, and cure cancer.

The other option is to choose a good state university that doesn't look at race. This is what I'm telling my kids to do.

My half Asian children are smart, in a magnet program, and they do have e.c.; one loves performing arts. Even so, their background is a strike against them when applying to certain universities.

This is good advice. Love your in state option and make sure your dc knows it is just fine to go to UMD etc. Top 20 is tough for Asian kids especially Ivies. For perspective 7% of Asian American students have SAT scores above 1500. In a magnet program everyone has SAT scores above 1500. It is really hard to stand out and many Asian American students don’t have the kind of hooks elite schools like (parents who attended as undergraduates, recruited athletes, first generation college student etc.).
For what it’s worth OP my ds was upfront about his Asian heritage. He was not going to hide it and certainly never going to lie about it. He just hoped that whoever read his file would do so without prejudice. He got into great schools (not top 20) and decided to attend UMD. He has many bright, high achieving, creative, social, funny caring Asian American kids who will be joining him. These kids don’t see themselves as two dimensional. Frankly my main concern as a parent isn’t that my child might get shut out of an Ivy I am more concerned that they might internalize the negative stereotypes about high achieving Asian American students as preppers, introverted, lacking in creativity and intellectual curiosity etc. That can be very damaging for a young person.

I believe Asians students with high stats who focus less on IVs and more on slacs will have a very good outcome.

IMO, the problem is that many want to major in something like CS, and SLACS aren't really known for their stellar CS programs.

Also, even within SLACS, it depends on the program. My niece, who is Asian, wanted to major in Bio at a great SLAC. There are lots of Asian female Bio majors in these SLACS.

Basically, you either have to major in something that's not popular within this group or go to a univ. that doesn't look at race.

CS is usually taught at SLACs. And they do a better job IMO. They are not usually “impacted” like they are at UC schools.

Which SLAC has a great CS program reputation? I'm not talking Harvard level, btw.

Mudd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

[Anonymous]

Harvard ain’t all that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/articles/who-needs-harvard/amp/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian boys have to face an ever higher barrier to good schools, while Asian girls fill the need to recruit women to STEM fields.

Anyone noticed that the magnet programs in MD have become the feeders to UMD? This year the RM IB program has 51 students going to UMD.

Cause it's a good school and cheaper. I would be happy if my RMIB kid went there.

UMD is not so good in humanities, which are where many of the RMIB kids go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

And in this case stems from the systemic racism against Asians in higher ed.

When you discount an entire group of people whose ancestors come from 50 very different countries with thousands of different ethnic groups and hold them to higher standards than another group of people that can get in with lesser standards- employers know. It’s no secret.

The accounts for diversity in employment are based on all things equal. Two candidates with equal stats and you want diversity then you go with the candidate that fits that.
College is not all things equal therefore when going for diversity it’s unequal. It’s expecting the Asian kid to work much harder for the same shot at admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

And in this case stems from the systemic racism against Asians in higher ed.

When you discount an entire group of people whose ancestors come from 50 very different countries with thousands of different ethnic groups and hold them to higher standards than another group of people that can get in with lesser standards- employers know. It’s no secret.

The accounts for diversity in employment are based on all things equal. Two candidates with equal stats and you want diversity then you go with the candidate that fits that.
College is not all things equal therefore when going for diversity it’s unequal. It’s expecting the Asian kid to work much harder for the same shot at admission.

As Harvard practices “holistic” criteria, so do the employers. Can you blame them? Even H law school and H medical school do not choose their classes entirely from Harvard undergrads. They routinely reject Harvard grads in favor lesser private or public colleges and unis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend whose son is half-Chinese said he is going to identify as white on his college applications.

Ours too. Fortunately their last name (which is Asian) could also be Scandinavian.

I’m asian. DS has a white last name and the first name doesn’t give any details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian boys have to face an ever higher barrier to good schools, while Asian girls fill the need to recruit women to STEM fields.

Anyone noticed that the magnet programs in MD have become the feeders to UMD? This year the RM IB program has 51 students going to UMD.

Cause it's a good school and cheaper. I would be happy if my RMIB kid went there.

UMD is not so good in humanities, which are where many of the RMIB kids go.

UMD will be a good place for white boys and girls. RMIB boys and girls will fit in fine too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In response to an earlier comment in this thread,

"I don’t see a ton of Asian CEOs, senators or finance guys ect running America. If your talking about Stem where Asians are mostly employees and not public facing the majority of Asians are not in the high ranking positions. Many are trapped in jobs doing the science/math with few opportunities to lead."

I thought I would point out that the CEOs of Google, Microsoft, IBM, and Adobe are all Indian-Americans, as are the CEOs of Mastercard and Deloitte. If one ventures across the Atlantic, the CEOs of both Novartis and Dageo are Indian-Americans. Until 2019, the CEO of Pepsico was also an Indian-American. A small sample no doubt, but certainly a noteworthy one.

If Indian-Americans aren’t Asians, what are they? Are they whites? Blacks? I am just confused.

Last time I checked India was in Asia. I know geography is not Americans’ strong suit but come on people!!!

Indian Americans are Asian. And yes colleges do consider Indian Americans to be Asian.