Parents of Asian-American Kids: What did you learn from the college admissions process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the white parent of a TJ kid, and I will tell you what I have seen in action. There are excellent, very well respected schools where your kid will get a great education— even in STEM— and that will place them at the top of the grad school admissions heap. And Asian kids are not applying. Those that do are getting a boost over white girls (girls are also over represented).

For example, Grinnell and Oberlin are both top SLACs. They are also both in the top 5 in science PhD production by graduates. Their science grads consistently get into the top handful of grad programs in their field. They both having phenomenal med school placement. A science kid will go and do hands on published research with a professor for 4 years if they want it and get great internships. Because they aren’t competing with grad students. And a high achieving Asian kid is likely to be considered URM and get half tuition merit aid.

I thought this was odd. First line when checking for preferential admissions is to the graduation differential, which does indeed exist for Oberlin (83% Asian grad rate, 88% white) but is reversed for Grinnell (90% Asian grad rate, 87% white). These are pretty close, but I'd say Grinnell probably isn't giving any preferences for Asians. Can't rule out Oberlin, but the diminished grad rate isn't very high, and may be due to other factors - Oberlin's hilarious outbreaks of wokeness might have a few Asian students transferring elsewhere.

Wouldn’t it be more useful to check number of kids in a group applying versus number accepted to determine whether kids from one group are more likely to be admitted?

I get what you’re doing with grad rate, but I just don’t think that is as useful as acceptance rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the white parent of a TJ kid, and I will tell you what I have seen in action. There are excellent, very well respected schools where your kid will get a great education— even in STEM— and that will place them at the top of the grad school admissions heap. And Asian kids are not applying. Those that do are getting a boost over white girls (girls are also over represented).

For example, Grinnell and Oberlin are both top SLACs. They are also both in the top 5 in science PhD production by graduates. Their science grads consistently get into the top handful of grad programs in their field. They both having phenomenal med school placement. A science kid will go and do hands on published research with a professor for 4 years if they want it and get great internships. Because they aren’t competing with grad students. And a high achieving Asian kid is likely to be considered URM and get half tuition merit aid.

I thought this was odd. First line when checking for preferential admissions is to the graduation differential, which does indeed exist for Oberlin (83% Asian grad rate, 88% white) but is reversed for Grinnell (90% Asian grad rate, 87% white). These are pretty close, but I'd say Grinnell probably isn't giving any preferences for Asians. Can't rule out Oberlin, but the diminished grad rate isn't very high, and may be due to other factors - Oberlin's hilarious outbreaks of wokeness might have a few Asian students transferring elsewhere.

Wouldn’t it be more useful to check number of kids in a group applying versus number accepted to determine whether kids from one group are more likely to be admitted?

I get what you’re doing with grad rate, but I just don’t think that is as useful as acceptance rate.

These are classes of only 400 kids. I’d be careful drawing too many conclusions based on a 3 point spread. That’s 12 kids over 4 years. With a pool that small, the spdada is less accurate than UVA would be. To me it says these schools both do a good job admitting kids who are qualified without much racial preference, at least in the white vs Asian pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t it be more useful to check number of kids in a group applying versus number accepted to determine whether kids from one group are more likely to be admitted?

I get what you’re doing with grad rate, but I just don’t think that is as useful as acceptance rate.

Applying vs accepted tells you little (*). To see to what extent group membership affects admittance, the data you want to see is the SAT/ACT scores of accepted students by group. Universities, unsurprisingly, really don't like sharing this information. Despite its issues, grad rate differential is probably the best proxy easily available.

(*) Also, applying vs accepted by group isn't collected by IPEDS, as far as I know; grad rate is. Can't do anything with data if we don't have access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
These are classes of only 400 kids. I’d be careful drawing too many conclusions based on a 3 point spread. That’s 12 kids over 4 years. With a pool that small, the spdada is less accurate than UVA would be. To me it says these schools both do a good job admitting kids who are qualified without much racial preference, at least in the white vs Asian pool.

Rates here are for six-year graduation, so in your example, 36 kids. Helps smooths things out a bit. I agree generally with your statement, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is grossly exaggerated. Diversity is valued at most schools. My child's Asian American status was an ADVANTAGE at small liberal arts schools.

Now if you are dead set on attending a top ten Ivy, that may be another story. But if you are putting your kids under undue pressure for the sake of status, you should examine that about yourself.

+1

[Anonymous]

I have a feeling the Harvard thing might be just that the people back in mainland China might know only 1 or 2 American colleges, one of which might be Harvard. Why let these masses dictate one’s future? And Harvard’s water-downed degree for URMs aren’t really worth much any way. There are other schools out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yawn it's about connections not your undergrad for crying out loud

No one cares about your undergrad or first job out of school long term

Spend more time on soft skills it will help all your kids more in life

Except all those companies that recruit at Harvard but not Podunk State Valley.

I've hired across 3 industries over 3 decades. We prefer State college graduates. Harvard grads
are considered to be special snow flakes. We consider Harvard grads but honestly prefer State college grads. We prefer to hire students that have worked summer jobs
and can get along with their bosses. Summer jobs can be average jobs
to pay the bills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

LOL... my asian kid attended St. Albans school with mediocre grade and SAT. He graduated from an unknown college but it really did not matter. He got a job because one of his high school "buddies" was the SVP at his father's company. My kid is now Senior VP at the company report directly to his high school buddy who is now Executive VP. He is making more money than he knows what to do with it. It's about the connection.

caucasian here but this is a great point and is very true in life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling the Harvard thing might be just that the people back in mainland China might know only 1 or 2 American colleges, one of which might be Harvard. Why let these masses dictate one’s future? And Harvard’s water-downed degree for URMs aren’t really worth much any way. There are other schools out there.

funniest thing I've read here in a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

LOL... my asian kid attended St. Albans school with mediocre grade and SAT. He graduated from an unknown college but it really did not matter. He got a job because one of his high school "buddies" was the SVP at his father's company. My kid is now Senior VP at the company report directly to his high school buddy who is now Executive VP. He is making more money than he knows what to do with it. It's about the connection.

caucasian here but this is a great point and is very true in life

.. .and sad, and explains the need for lower income kids getting that connection through the elite institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

LOL... my asian kid attended St. Albans school with mediocre grade and SAT. He graduated from an unknown college but it really did not matter. He got a job because one of his high school "buddies" was the SVP at his father's company. My kid is now Senior VP at the company report directly to his high school buddy who is now Executive VP. He is making more money than he knows what to do with it. It's about the connection.

caucasian here but this is a great point and is very true in life

so if life isn't about getting things on merit and achievement, why should college admissions be any different?

[Anonymous]

I had a foreign student friend in college who explained in his native country, Oxford and Cambridge grads don’t do well simply because there aren’t many Oxybridge grads in his country who are in position to pull their alums. By the same logic, he explained US ivy grads don’t fare well because those in position to pull them are few and far between. At wide intervals, rare. It’s actually state university grads who do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling the Harvard thing might be just that the people back in mainland China might know only 1 or 2 American colleges, one of which might be Harvard. Why let these masses dictate one’s future? And Harvard’s water-downed degree for URMs aren’t really worth much any way. There are other schools out there.

funniest thing I've read here in a while.

based on their multiple posts, i think this poster is trying to will that statement into existence through sheer repetition. good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, this thread is a good example of what's wrong with the approaches taken by many Asian families and why top colleges don't want full of Asian kids. There are ~4000 colleges in US. The "success" threshold for Asian families are (not all but most) are top 10-20 schools... The "Ivy/M/S or Bust" approach is not healthy. If I were an admission officer, I would do my best to mix kids from all SES/racial backgrounds. And I say this as an Asian parent. You see this happening at HS level too as you see here re. TJ posts

I do not agree.

Asians have to break the bamboo ceiling. All the kids who went on to do well in no-name colleges are White. Asians do not get this kind of opportunities unless they are going with colleges that have the name recognition. With all the steller stats my kid has, he cannot change the race that he is in. If a person is biracial (White with whatever other race) and if they can pass for White, they should position themselves as White candidate.

No one has the Ivy/M/S mentality, but the employers do. And the employers are White who want to employ White people. The only Asians they want to employ are the ones who can be exploited for a very low pay like the H1B visa slaves or someone who has the credentials and training from a good college.

Anyhow, the only silver lining is that most Asian-American parents will sacrifice a lot in their lives to make sure that the kids get an education and a financial leg-up in life. As the cost of college education keeps on rising Asian-Americans may come out on the top because their parents help them out.

Not an Asian but I do not agree with this premise. Employeers look for well rounded applicants. Employers look for kids who can do the jobs.
Many employers look to hire from State Colleges as applicants of all races are better rounded. Employers are looking for more than the
stereotypical nerd/grind. Employers, even in stem, want to hire kids who can lead meetings and take charge. In the industries I've hired in
we closely look at kids from State Colleges. Students from the Ivys (of any race) are generally considered special snow flakes in our industries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, this thread is a good example of what's wrong with the approaches taken by many Asian families and why top colleges don't want full of Asian kids. There are ~4000 colleges in US. The "success" threshold for Asian families are (not all but most) are top 10-20 schools... The "Ivy/M/S or Bust" approach is not healthy. If I were an admission officer, I would do my best to mix kids from all SES/racial backgrounds. And I say this as an Asian parent. You see this happening at HS level too as you see here re. TJ posts

I do not agree.

Asians have to break the bamboo ceiling. All the kids who went on to do well in no-name colleges are White. Asians do not get this kind of opportunities unless they are going with colleges that have the name recognition. With all the steller stats my kid has, he cannot change the race that he is in. If a person is biracial (White with whatever other race) and if they can pass for White, they should position themselves as White candidate.

No one has the Ivy/M/S mentality, but the employers do. And the employers are White who want to employ White people. The only Asians they want to employ are the ones who can be exploited for a very low pay like the H1B visa slaves or someone who has the credentials and training from a good college.

Anyhow, the only silver lining is that most Asian-American parents will sacrifice a lot in their lives to make sure that the kids get an education and a financial leg-up in life. As the cost of college education keeps on rising Asian-Americans may come out on the top because their parents help them out.

Not an Asian but I do not agree with this premise. Employeers look for well rounded applicants. Employers look for kids who can do the jobs.
Many employers look to hire from State Colleges as applicants of all races are better rounded. Employers are looking for more than the
stereotypical nerd/grind. Employers, even in stem, want to hire kids who can lead meetings and take charge. In the industries I've hired in
we closely look at kids from State Colleges. Students from the Ivys (of any race) are generally considered special snow flakes in our industries.

Keep trying with that.