Dating/marrying outside of your social class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how often this happens? I know of two coworkers who are married to blue collar men. I was surprised when I found out. Felt a little sorry for them like the had to settle, but they are both pretty charming smart and nice. I immediately rule on guys based on education and or profession. I just didn't think differences like that could work. Am I wrong?

"There are no blue collar men, only blue collar jobs." - a quote from my dad, a line cook who put 3 kids through college, and we are now a doctor, a lawyer, and university professor.

Awesome quote!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how often this happens? I know of two coworkers who are married to blue collar men. I was surprised when I found out. Felt a little sorry for them like the had to settle, but they are both pretty charming smart and nice. I immediately rule on guys based on education and or profession. I just didn't think differences like that could work. Am I wrong?

"There are no blue collar men, only blue collar jobs." - a quote from my dad, a line cook who put 3 kids through college, and we are now a doctor, a lawyer, and university professor.

I am a successful scientist with a PhD and most of my friends have blue collar jobs. You know what? Many of them are very smart but more importantly, have great personalities. Not to mention they physically bust their ass, and can build, create, or fix anything. I can barely use a screwdriver. So tell me what difference does it make what color the collar is?

[Anonymous]

There's 7 types of intelligence - I used to think only my intellectual intelligence was of value. If they're intelligent in at least one area that's usually enough. My DH is in construction and we have 300K personal income each year. So money wise it's great. Do I wish he dressed more business casual? Sure I find that hot. But things have worked fine once I grew up and learned to value him as is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some blue collar workers were children of upper middle class and upper class parents. They may be working that job to rebel against the lifestyle of their parents, or because they don't actually need to make money. This is rare, but I can think of two examples where I have seen this. One of them has an inherited trust that would rival Mott romney's kids.

The irony is that many of these "blue collar" jobs pay more than a degree in women's studies, or gender appreciation or whatever. My inlaws are old money and my MIL tells me all of the time how many of their friends are financially supporting their children and granchildren (paying their mortgages, private school).

I grew up middle class but my parents worked incredibly hard to give my brother and I experiences that would benefit us later in life. I also worked my tush off in high school and college with internships so I was able to secure a very good job in NYC when I graduated. From that point on, I started dating and meeting very wealthy and cultured guys.

Interestingly enough, when I met DH he was living with his parents after having graduated from Yale 8 months prior. He had no job and no prospects. Within two months of us meeting, he had a job and an apartment.

DH was coddled as a child, everything he did was right, and my ILs were so worried about his psyche, they were afraid to employ any sort of tough love. My MIL now recognizes that DH could have turned out exactly the way so many of her friends kids did- brilliant, unmotivated and dependent.

[zander]

Been a blue collar worker all my life and damn proud of it. It makes me laugh at some of the snotty comments. If being considered mid to upper middle class a bad thing then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was raised upper middle class and my husband's family struggled to put food on the table. However, they're first generation immigrants and are actually quite cultured, etc. But they struggled for the first twenty years or so of his life.

For us, the biggest divide has been the fact that his family had very traditional gender roles, which is probably more typical in working class families. In his family, the women raise the children and the men go to the club after work with their friends to get away from the shrieking and the crumbs. It was a struggle at first to get my husband to see that they were his kids too, not just my problem.

He also does most of the grocery shopping but was raised to buy just enough food. When they went shopping on payday, their cupboards were bare! As a working mom, I like to have lots of extra granola bars and toilet paper and stuff, and it sounds stupid but it used to really annoy me to have to dash out to the store on a weeknight because we were out of stupid stuff. But now I have converted him to the wonders of Sam's Club.

Over the years we have fought about: whether SAT tutoring is really necessary; whether we should get the kids a math tutor or just make them study harder; whether paying for summer camp is a waste of money.

Also, he thinks restaurants are a waste of money which can be hard on a Friday night when you're exhausted from working all week.

It never occurred to me that any of these things would be issues since we had similar educations and met at work. We also disagree about how much to give to charity.

I dated someone for a bit and we had these same issues. He had post-graduate degrees but was raised poor and he felt I was snooty for liking to go to a restaurant. He would buy single rolls of toilet paper!!! He paid his rent at the very last minute every month because that felt safer to him than paying it early or on the first of the month. It was definitely eye-opening for me how different backgrounds handle things. Ultimately we broke up because I need more financial stability -- not a rich guy but someone who pays bills on time and doesnt always wait until the very last minute to do anything and end up spending money foolishly because his options are limited from not planning for it or handling it earlier as that was his normal. It all stressed me out and I knew it would get worse once we had kids. He also resented me for having my finances and life in order and would not take my advice.

He kind of sounds like my Bangladeshi husband. The club thing doesn't make sense though. Where is he from?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

What a wealthy celebrity does to embarass her family (i read that Paris's grandfather excluded her from his will) has nothing to do with how her family whose from old money EXPECTS her to act. There are certain education and formalities that old money raises you with that you don't learn when you are an adult. If you embarass them with your antics however they will exclude you.

Oh please. This is so ridiculous. Old money does not have the monopoly on manners or morals, quite the opposite. And if you look back beyond American "old Money" which is a laughingstock, to British aristocracy, even less so. The Hiltons are not old money by ANY means. They are very new, and very crude, the whole lot of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some blue collar workers were children of upper middle class and upper class parents. They may be working that job to rebel against the lifestyle of their parents, or because they don't actually need to make money. This is rare, but I can think of two examples where I have seen this. One of them has an inherited trust that would rival Mott romney's kids.

The irony is that many of these "blue collar" jobs pay more than a degree in women's studies, or gender appreciation or whatever. My inlaws are old money and my MIL tells me all of the time how many of their friends are financially supporting their children and granchildren (paying their mortgages, private school).

I grew up middle class but my parents worked incredibly hard to give my brother and I experiences that would benefit us later in life. I also worked my tush off in high school and college with internships so I was able to secure a very good job in NYC when I graduated. From that point on, I started dating and meeting very wealthy and cultured guys.

Interestingly enough, when I met DH he was living with his parents after having graduated from Yale 8 months prior. He had no job and no prospects. Within two months of us meeting, he had a job and an apartment.

DH was coddled as a child, everything he did was right, and my ILs were so worried about his psyche, they were afraid to employ any sort of tough love. My MIL now recognizes that DH could have turned out exactly the way so many of her friends kids did- brilliant, unmotivated and dependent.

What about upper-middle class folks who have blue collar work ethics?
I'm from generational wealth, and we all titter at wealthy families that have to support their kids and grand kids. That's no way to create and retain wealth! Instead of just living off the principal, which will eventually run out given the exponential growth of multi-generational families, we were raised knowing we had to work and contribute to "The Company" (our family). It was unacceptable to freeload, so we all got our vocational training at law school and b-school and clock in every day at the partnership or brokerage.

[Anonymous]

No such thing as social class

[Anonymous]

"social class" ??? This isn't Britain prior to 1925.

America is classless, no pun intended. There is no nobility and you are what you make yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how often this happens? I know of two coworkers who are married to blue collar men. I was surprised when I found out. Felt a little sorry for them like the had to settle, but they are both pretty charming smart and nice. I immediately rule on guys based on education and or profession. I just didn't think differences like that could work. Am I wrong?

Are you married, OP? How old are you?

Everyone settles, OP. Everyone.

[Anonymous]

I did marry outside of my social class and my ILs hate me, completely totally hate me because of it. They don't even know me, have never had any conversations with me, are not interested in me, but they hate, hate, hate me because of my background, education, upbringing, my house, my taste in pretty much everything.

I wonder if they'd hate me if I were the same social class as they, but it's too late now. I've been married to their son for 18 years, so that's a lot of hating on their part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are definitely blue collar men. My FIL is the classic ignorant, bigoted, bitter blue collar white man that forms the backbone of the republican party. Due to his lack of education, he is unworldly, too stupid to know he is stupid, and believes all sorts of racist canards. I have met many cops, firefighters, plumbers etc like him. It is not very often that I meet white collar professionals who are so unintelligent and backwards.

Liberal "tolerance" strikes again!

Seems to me those people you look down upon do a hell of a lot more for this country than you ever will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did marry outside of my social class and my ILs hate me, completely totally hate me because of it. They don't even know me, have never had any conversations with me, are not interested in me, but they hate, hate, hate me because of my background, education, upbringing, my house, my taste in pretty much everything.

I wonder if they'd hate me if I were the same social class as they, but it's too late now. I've been married to their son for 18 years, so that's a lot of hating on their part.

I'm in a similar situation. They definitely - okay, I'm pretty sure - don't hate me, but I detect resentment and jealousy. Where they've struggled their whole lives (they live with MIL's mother now) my DH and I have been comfortable since we got married. Not rich, by any means, but able to buy a home, travel, put our kids in nice programs, go to "fancy" restaurants, etc. They have never had those things. Their jealousy is understandable, but uncomfortable - I'm always self-editing for fear of coming across as a "snob" (to them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No such thing as social class

So my boyfriend who licked each finger individually after a meal is the same class as the upper class?