Dating/marrying outside of your social class?

[Anonymous]

I was raised upper middle class and my husband's family struggled to put food on the table. However, they're first generation immigrants and are actually quite cultured, etc. But they struggled for the first twenty years or so of his life.

For us, the biggest divide has been the fact that his family had very traditional gender roles, which is probably more typical in working class families. In his family, the women raise the children and the men go to the club after work with their friends to get away from the shrieking and the crumbs. It was a struggle at first to get my husband to see that they were his kids too, not just my problem.

He also does most of the grocery shopping but was raised to buy just enough food. When they went shopping on payday, their cupboards were bare! As a working mom, I like to have lots of extra granola bars and toilet paper and stuff, and it sounds stupid but it used to really annoy me to have to dash out to the store on a weeknight because we were out of stupid stuff. But now I have converted him to the wonders of Sam's Club.

Over the years we have fought about: whether SAT tutoring is really necessary; whether we should get the kids a math tutor or just make them study harder; whether paying for summer camp is a waste of money.

Also, he thinks restaurants are a waste of money which can be hard on a Friday night when you're exhausted from working all week.

It never occurred to me that any of these things would be issues since we had similar educations and met at work. We also disagree about how much to give to charity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men seem more than likely to marry lower class women. One of my DH's best friends recently married a gorgeous but lower class girl. She's model-beautiful and very sweet and adores her husband but his extended family can't help but laugh and mock her LC family.

We were a their apartment for a party the other day and we were talking about how cute their place was. One of my DH's friends afterwards made a comment about how it was so trashy that she had blown up and put up lots of pinterest-y quotes all over the place and hwo tacky that was.

I was horrified! I wonder how hard it is for people in cross-class marriages. I wonder how she feels around her husbands friends and family. People can be cruel.

..

Sounds like they are the low-class family in this story.

+1,000,000

The hilarious thing is that people striving hard to be "upper class," making lots of judgy, snarky, nasty comments about others along the way, don't have a clue how much others are actually looking down on them, not up at them in envy and admiration.

Kinda like how the Kardashians feel big time but are really a total laughing stock.

Making fun of someone else about how much they don't fit into the cool crowd is never classy. It's always trashy as shit.

Your language is "never classy". Nothing more gross than a foul-mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was raised upper middle class and my husband's family struggled to put food on the table. However, they're first generation immigrants and are actually quite cultured, etc. But they struggled for the first twenty years or so of his life.

For us, the biggest divide has been the fact that his family had very traditional gender roles, which is probably more typical in working class families. In his family, the women raise the children and the men go to the club after work with their friends to get away from the shrieking and the crumbs. It was a struggle at first to get my husband to see that they were his kids too, not just my problem.

He also does most of the grocery shopping but was raised to buy just enough food. When they went shopping on payday, their cupboards were bare! As a working mom, I like to have lots of extra granola bars and toilet paper and stuff, and it sounds stupid but it used to really annoy me to have to dash out to the store on a weeknight because we were out of stupid stuff. But now I have converted him to the wonders of Sam's Club.

Over the years we have fought about: whether SAT tutoring is really necessary; whether we should get the kids a math tutor or just make them study harder; whether paying for summer camp is a waste of money.

Also, he thinks restaurants are a waste of money which can be hard on a Friday night when you're exhausted from working all week.

It never occurred to me that any of these things would be issues since we had similar educations and met at work. We also disagree about how much to give to charity.

I dated someone for a bit and we had these same issues. He had post-graduate degrees but was raised poor and he felt I was snooty for liking to go to a restaurant. He would buy single rolls of toilet paper!!! He paid his rent at the very last minute every month because that felt safer to him than paying it early or on the first of the month. It was definitely eye-opening for me how different backgrounds handle things. Ultimately we broke up because I need more financial stability -- not a rich guy but someone who pays bills on time and doesnt always wait until the very last minute to do anything and end up spending money foolishly because his options are limited from not planning for it or handling it earlier as that was his normal. It all stressed me out and I knew it would get worse once we had kids. He also resented me for having my finances and life in order and would not take my advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

/thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

/thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

What a wealthy celebrity does to embarass her family (i read that Paris's grandfather excluded her from his will) has nothing to do with how her family whose from old money EXPECTS her to act. There are certain education and formalities that old money raises you with that you don't learn when you are an adult. If you embarass them with your antics however they will exclude you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up UMC in DC and my DH, while being an educated professional, grew up LMC in a small southern town.

It is challenging. Unwritten rules I have to explain to him, manners, etc. We're still in our twenties and I expect he'll fully assimilate.

Same here. I was married for a couple of years before I realized that the reason my husband doesn't know how to set the table is that his mother doesn't know! She literally can't tell you how to arrange the fork, knife and spoon around the plate.

Worse than not knowing how to arrange them is not knowing how to use them properly. If I go on a date and a man wraps is fist around his fork when cutting meat or switches hands to eat becuause he doesnt know how to use his left to cut with a knife he's not getting a second date. Table manners are a sign of someone's upbringing.

I agree (I'm original pp of this sub-thread). The only reason my DH has table manners is because he joined a fraternity where they were schooled on such things.

My husband comes from a family with a lot of money (both parents are doctors), and he himself is a doctor. He has no clue how to set a table or which fork to use. If we ever have to have snobs like you over for dinner, we'll be sure to google it.

Table manners and other social customs can be learned. Idiots will never have brains.

I don't agree with this. You say your husband is from a family of doctors and he's a doctor too. Class is derived from generations of wealth and upbringing where old customs such as table manners were essential in how educated and formal wealthy people had to be. Your husband sounds more like new money but I know that family who came from wealth their table manners were really up there in importance of how it demonstrated their upbringing and class which was tied to wealth.

Have you seen how "old money" is behaving these days? Paris Hilton anyone? How about Nat Rothschild? Please. Class is a stupid concept. You are either a solid human being with character or your are an undisciplined, self indulgent moron. People of both types can be found in every social circle.

What a wealthy celebrity does to embarass her family (i read that Paris's grandfather excluded her from his will) has nothing to do with how her family whose from old money EXPECTS her to act. There are certain education and formalities that old money raises you with that you don't learn when you are an adult. If you embarass them with your antics however they will exclude you.

Fortunes deplete and grow constantly, that is part of living in a capitalist society. If we were a real capitalist society and not a crony-capitalist one, it would happen even more dramatically.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the people who are sending their kids to Andover and Exeter are really a mixed bunch. We are no longer in feudal Europe. The idea that money and privilege and manners and "class"pass from generation to generation in families just doesn't hold true anymore. Furthermore, the formalities you refer to are also fast dying.

Did you see the pictures from Nicki Hilton's wedding to that other Rothschild? There are photos where her skirt is blown up and you see her underwear. Her brother got kicked off a plane for screaming at passengers will in a drug-fueled rage that he could "buy them."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men seem more than likely to marry lower class women. One of my DH's best friends recently married a gorgeous but lower class girl. She's model-beautiful and very sweet and adores her husband but his extended family can't help but laugh and mock her LC family.

We were a their apartment for a party the other day and we were talking about how cute their place was. One of my DH's friends afterwards made a comment about how it was so trashy that she had blown up and put up lots of pinterest-y quotes all over the place and hwo tacky that was.

I was horrified! I wonder how hard it is for people in cross-class marriages. I wonder how she feels around her husbands friends and family. People can be cruel.

I know a couple like this. He's rich and his family owns a good portion of land in Montgomery County. They sold a bunch to developers but still have a lot of acreage. Her family is poor, from WV, and she's the only one who went to college. They got married, built their dream house and had kids. His family always looked down on her blue collar family and secretly mocked them for being trashy. But look who's trashy now: he ended up cheating on her with an intern at his firm and lost his kids and big house. Money can't buy you class.

Tragic. I'm sure he'll do the exact same thing to his next ex-wife and leave another set of kids fatherless.
How is that any different from a guy from any other class abandoning his family?
Money can't buy you class ... or caring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was raised upper middle class and my husband's family struggled to put food on the table. However, they're first generation immigrants and are actually quite cultured, etc. But they struggled for the first twenty years or so of his life.

For us, the biggest divide has been the fact that his family had very traditional gender roles, which is probably more typical in working class families. In his family, the women raise the children and the men go to the club after work with their friends to get away from the shrieking and the crumbs. It was a struggle at first to get my husband to see that they were his kids too, not just my problem.

He also does most of the grocery shopping but was raised to buy just enough food. When they went shopping on payday, their cupboards were bare! As a working mom, I like to have lots of extra granola bars and toilet paper and stuff, and it sounds stupid but it used to really annoy me to have to dash out to the store on a weeknight because we were out of stupid stuff. But now I have converted him to the wonders of Sam's Club.

Over the years we have fought about: whether SAT tutoring is really necessary; whether we should get the kids a math tutor or just make them study harder; whether paying for summer camp is a waste of money.

Also, he thinks restaurants are a waste of money which can be hard on a Friday night when you're exhausted from working all week.

It never occurred to me that any of these things would be issues since we had similar educations and met at work. We also disagree about how much to give to charity.

Isn't this true for middle class American SAHM's? and all the moms shopping at Target on weekday afternoons with their kids.

[Anonymous]

The couple comments I read in here from women saying their big law partner or doctor dh's are kind of boring outside of work holds true for big law women/doctor women as well. It isn't a gender issue, it is what the sector/economy is doing to individuals due to how it rewards participants.

Due to the sheer focus required (especially for medicine), I find women in elite specialty tracks in residency or who have just completed their residency to be pretty boring dates.

The breadth of knowledge out of their domain is really lacking and hence they make poor conversationalists.

The jack-of-all trades types find it harder to succeed economically these days but they are much more interesting to be around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The couple comments I read in here from women saying their big law partner or doctor dh's are kind of boring outside of work holds true for big law women/doctor women as well. It isn't a gender issue, it is what the sector/economy is doing to individuals due to how it rewards participants.

Due to the sheer focus required (especially for medicine), I find women in elite specialty tracks in residency or who have just completed their residency to be pretty boring dates.

The breadth of knowledge out of their domain is really lacking and hence they make poor conversationalists.

The jack-of-all trades types find it harder to succeed economically these days but they are much more interesting to be around.

+1 great and accurate observation from what I have seen.

[Anonymous]

My sexy internal medicine dr hubby grew up very blue collar and is able to fix things around the house and build me whatever I want. The best of both worlds!!

[Anonymous]

Some blue collar workers were children of upper middle class and upper class parents. They may be working that job to rebel against the lifestyle of their parents, or because they don't actually need to make money. This is rare, but I can think of two examples where I have seen this. One of them has an inherited trust that would rival Mott romney's kids.