"God has a plan"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance.

One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh?

And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design.

Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely?

To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions.

As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above.

As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing:

"The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78]
Crick was especially critical of Christianity:

"I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79]
Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80]

---
So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again.

No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God.

And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven.

One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet.

As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it?

Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation.

Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others.

Again with the personal attacks...ridiculous.

The following details Cricks theory of intelligent lifeforms sending out 'seeds' etc. which translates into...life on this earth was created by intelligent beings from some distant...not of this world.

http://www.panspermia-theory.com/directed-panspermia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god.

That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane.

I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God?

This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way.

I believe the assumption was self evident.

And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives.

The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people.

Your opinion is duly noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god.

That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane.

I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God?

This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way.

I believe the assumption was self evident.

And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives.

The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people.

I respectfully disagree. There is great, timeless wisdom in the Bible. There are many beautiful and inspiring passages that point to the way of true peace and joy- service to others. Being a loving person. I'll take that over magazines that tell me I need to have a perfect body to be happy, or a $500 pair of shoes. Or society that has us on a hamster wheel trying to achieve, getting into the best schools, pushing our kids to get into the best schools, getting a high paying job, living in a big house, etc., under the lie that it will bring you peace. The Bible says build your treasure in Heaven, ie, serve and love others; don't make achievement or financial success or prestige or the pursuit of power your god, because that god will ultimately fail you. Yes, those things are good but putting them first and foremost in your life is worshiping an idol god. It will not bring you lasting peace. I think modern people can appreciate and learn from that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The greatest thing about believing or trusting God is that it out of our free will. The spirit of God convicts the hardest of hearts and until you experience God in this way you cannot understand. I pray that God will convict our hearts and cause us to experience his amazing power that will make us fully trust him and give thanks in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES OF LIFE

Thank him in good times and bad - his amazing power brings us both. Sometimes it's hard to trust him, when we've been praying for something good and something bad happens instead, but we must keep on trusting and worshipping him, because if we stop we will be stuck in an uncaring universe, without his spirit looking over us and that is too painful for some to accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god.

That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane.

I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God?

This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way.

I believe the assumption was self evident.

And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives.

The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people.

I respectfully disagree. There is great, timeless wisdom in the Bible. There are many beautiful and inspiring passages that point to the way of true peace and joy- service to others. Being a loving person. I'll take that over magazines that tell me I need to have a perfect body to be happy, or a $500 pair of shoes. Or society that has us on a hamster wheel trying to achieve, getting into the best schools, pushing our kids to get into the best schools, getting a high paying job, living in a big house, etc., under the lie that it will bring you peace. The Bible says build your treasure in Heaven, ie, serve and love others; don't make achievement or financial success or prestige or the pursuit of power your god, because that god will ultimately fail you. Yes, those things are good but putting them first and foremost in your life is worshiping an idol god. It will not bring you lasting peace. I think modern people can appreciate and learn from that.

There is great timeless wisdom in a lot of sources -- that don't also include the rape and pillage and slavery and contradictions and repetitions and mistranslations that are found in the BIbe. Modern people can learn from myriad sources that provide wisdom and common sense and science and philosophy and psychology, etc, etc, without ever picking up a book written 1,000's of years ago and translated many times.

[Anonymous]

The most special thing about the Bible is that for many centuries, people were taught to that it was the word of God written by God and a few of his closest, ancient allies -- Moses, Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

It was only in the 19th century, when scholars started visiting the holy land and using scholarly methods, e.g. archeology, textual criticism, to study the Bible that they started to truly learn about the Bible and found that it was largely mythology based on earlier mythologies. It has ongoing value as an ancient work that has been very influential in much of the world, but its current value as a book of laws or wisdom is naturally limited by the tie in which it was written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most special thing about the Bible is that for many centuries, people were taught to that it was the word of God written by God and a few of his closest, ancient allies -- Moses, Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

It was only in the 19th century, when scholars started visiting the holy land and using scholarly methods, e.g. archeology, textual criticism, to study the Bible that they started to truly learn about the Bible and found that it was largely mythology based on earlier mythologies. It has ongoing value as an ancient work that has been very influential in much of the world, but its current value as a book of laws or wisdom is naturally limited by the TIME in which it was written.

correction above - TIME

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god.

That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane.

I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God?

This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way.

I believe the assumption was self evident.

And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives.

The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people.

Your opinion is duly noted.

In other words: "LA LA LA LA -- I can't hear you!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance.

One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh?

And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design.

Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely?

To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions.

As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above.

As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing:

"The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78]
Crick was especially critical of Christianity:

"I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79]
Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80]

---
So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again.

No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God.

And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven.

One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet.

As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it?

Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation.

Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others.

Again with the personal attacks...ridiculous.

The following details Cricks theory of intelligent lifeforms sending out 'seeds' etc. which translates into...life on this earth was created by intelligent beings from some distant...not of this world.

http://www.panspermia-theory.com/directed-panspermia

Yeah, right -- Crick was into Extraterrestrials -- and we're finding out about it for the first tie on DCUM. Talk about the wonders of the internet -- and the desperation of someone who can't stand to be exposed for trying to trick people -- and perhaps themselves.

Perhaps it's best to focus on prayer and faith and give up beating this dead horse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance.

One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh?

And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design.

Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely?

To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions.

As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above.

As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing:

"The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78]
Crick was especially critical of Christianity:

"I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79]
Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80]

---
So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again.

No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God.

And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven.

One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet.

As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it?

Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation.

Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others.

Again with the personal attacks...ridiculous.

The following details Cricks theory of intelligent lifeforms sending out 'seeds' etc. which translates into...life on this earth was created by intelligent beings from some distant...not of this world.

http://www.panspermia-theory.com/directed-panspermia

Yeah, right -- Crick was into Extraterrestrials -- and we're finding out about it for the first tie on DCUM. Talk about the wonders of the internet -- and the desperation of someone who can't stand to be exposed for trying to trick people -- and perhaps themselves.

Perhaps it's best to focus on prayer and faith and give up beating this dead horse.

Yes he believed in life outside of our universe...and more. And apparently YOU are finding out about it here for the first time. Go read all about it. Plenty written on the subject.

Here...will make it easier for you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

https://www.google.com/search?q=crick+and+aliens&oq=crick+and+aliens&aqs=chrome..69i57.7588j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
IThere is great, timeless wisdom in the Bible. There are many beautiful and inspiring passages that point to the way of true peace and joy- service to others. Being a loving person. I'll take that over magazines that tell me I need to have a perfect body to be happy, or a $500 pair of shoes. Or society that has us on a hamster wheel trying to achieve, getting into the best schools, pushing our kids to get into the best schools, getting a high paying job, living in a big house, etc., under the lie that it will bring you peace. The Bible says build your treasure in Heaven, ie, serve and love others; don't make achievement or financial success or prestige or the pursuit of power your god, because that god will ultimately fail you. Yes, those things are good but putting them first and foremost in your life is worshiping an idol god. It will not bring you lasting peace. I think modern people can appreciate and learn from that.

There are lots of things to compare the Bible too besides the worse of popular culture - for instance modern psychology or medicine or neuroscience, etc. Even next to supermarket magazines and cable TV the Bible doesn't aways come out ahead -- it's got some pretty racy stories of its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god.

That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane.

I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God?

This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way.

I believe the assumption was self evident.

And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives.

The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people.

Your opinion is duly noted.

In other words: "LA LA LA LA -- I can't hear you!"

FYI...your opinion is duly noted is a polite acknowledgement that it was read. Period. Nothing more than that. NO hidden meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance.

One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh?

And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design.

Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely?

To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions.

As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above.

As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing:

"The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78]
Crick was especially critical of Christianity:

"I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79]
Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80]

---
So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again.

No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God.

And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven.

One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet.

As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it?

Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation.

Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others.

Again with the personal attacks...ridiculous.

The following details Cricks theory of intelligent lifeforms sending out 'seeds' etc. which translates into...life on this earth was created by intelligent beings from some distant...not of this world.

http://www.panspermia-theory.com/directed-panspermia

Yeah, right -- Crick was into Extraterrestrials -- and we're finding out about it for the first tie on DCUM. Talk about the wonders of the internet -- and the desperation of someone who can't stand to be exposed for trying to trick people -- and perhaps themselves.

Perhaps it's best to focus on prayer and faith and give up beating this dead horse.

Yes he believed in life outside of our universe...and more. And apparently YOU are finding out about it here for the first time. Go read all about it. Plenty written on the subject.

Here...will make it easier for you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

https://www.google.com/search?q=crick+and+aliens&oq=crick+and+aliens&aqs=chrome..69i57.7588j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

a wow - impressive -- Creation Magazine, cited above, has such juicy info on Francis Crick - It just proves that you can believe everything you hear on the internet. I'm shocked it hasn't been picked up by the Washington Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Taking god out of the equation makes everything so much more simple to understand. Some good and bad things happen by chance; some happen based on human intervention. There's no invisible entity to blame or thank and there's no eternal reward for believing in it. That's the hardest part for people to accept and the main reason that belief in god persists.

I agree, you have to contort your thoughts so much to make any god theory fit with the world we live in. I think the idea persists though because people just can't accept that their lives with all its problems, is all their is. We want some sort of reward for being good.

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I don't believe anyone will ever prove or disprove the existence of God. I happen to believe in a loving Creator, but I can understand that some people just don't buy it. It does sound a little crazy, right? But I look at this world and all the craziness that we just accept as the way things are, the lies we accept as truths, and I think- it isn't any crazier to believe in God. It isn't crazier to believe that the purpose of life is to love and serve others because God loves us and calls us to service.

The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance.

One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.

That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh?

And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design.

Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely?

To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions.

As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above.

As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing:

"The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78]
Crick was especially critical of Christianity:

"I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79]
Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80]

---
So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again.

No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God.

And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven.

One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet.

As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it?

Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation.

Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others.

Again with the personal attacks...ridiculous.

The following details Cricks theory of intelligent lifeforms sending out 'seeds' etc. which translates into...life on this earth was created by intelligent beings from some distant...not of this world.

http://www.panspermia-theory.com/directed-panspermia

Yeah, right -- Crick was into Extraterrestrials -- and we're finding out about it for the first tie on DCUM. Talk about the wonders of the internet -- and the desperation of someone who can't stand to be exposed for trying to trick people -- and perhaps themselves.

Perhaps it's best to focus on prayer and faith and give up beating this dead horse.

Yes he believed in life outside of our universe...and more. And apparently YOU are finding out about it here for the first time. Go read all about it. Plenty written on the subject.

Here...will make it easier for you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

https://www.google.com/search?q=crick+and+aliens&oq=crick+and+aliens&aqs=chrome..69i57.7588j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

a wow - impressive -- Creation Magazine, cited above, has such juicy info on Francis Crick - It just proves that you can believe everything you hear on the internet. I'm shocked it hasn't been picked up by the Washington Post

Wow...you go way back up and cite creation magazine as it that discredits a legitimate quote. I wasn't even sure it was there. But it is. And no I don't read creation magazine. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Well, I don't suffer foolishness & ignorance...it's a waste of my time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wow...you go way back up and cite creation magazine as it that discredits a legitimate quote. I wasn't even sure it was there. But it is. And no I don't read creation magazine. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Francis_Crick

Well, I don't suffer foolishness & ignorance...it's a waste of my time.

Modern psychology calls this projection -- perhaps the Bible has a name for it too.

This discussion has highlighted how faulty thinking can contribute to religious belief, but it's also become quite psychologically complex and has gone far beyond its original focus. This thinking is not typical of all deeply religious people, many of whom have a simple faith that sustains them.

I wouldn't call this conversation a waste of time, bur rather a conversation that has gone off track and can no longer serve a useful purpose.