Belief in the afterlife is a matter of faith too -- and a matter of hope that you will never die. I think that is a main reason why so many people manage to continue to believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary (e.g. God not helping at times we really need him). Another reason is that in our culture, having faith in God is acceptable - even desirable. When educated, well-spoken people talk about their faith, they are taken seriously -- at least outwardly. It's a social convention. If fact, you're not taken seriously unless you have faith in a less and less likely god. That's changing, however, as fewer people have or keep their faith in unseen, capricious gods. Young people especially are less and less religious, suggesting that in a couple of generations,the action of proudly expressing one's "faith" as if it is desirable to believe in something unseen, will wane. |
Do you believe people are continuing to seek out a spiritual life, though? Only without a deity? |
Some people are --It also depends on how you (and others) define "spiritual life" Is there an actual "spirit" involved? what is "spirit?" - a feeling? an unearthly being? There's no question that more people are defining themselves as "spiritual but not religious" but we really don't know all that it encompasses for different people. For some, it could mean belief in god but not adhering to any particular religious beliefs and not attending church. For others it could mean they haven't attended church for years (or ever) and haven't thought about it much and want to appear as good, decent people and think saying "spiritual" will get that across. |
The more that we discover about the extreme complexity of life the more I believe in intelligent design. The odds are far less for that than chance. One of the co-discoverers of DNA wrote..."An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to almost be a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. That man believes life on earth was created by an intelligent being from another world. Hmmm? An intelligent being not of Earth. Guess that can't possibly be God huh? And those conditions, and the odds of survival as evolution occurred in the extremely infinitesimal advances that would occur along that route, makes me believe that there is less of a leap of faith to intelligent design, God, than it is to believe it all started with single cell organisms and somehow against odds beyond our ability to calculate made it from that to what we have today. Not only is the foundation of life complex, the incredible diversity of life is too. Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe that life doesn't evolve. Of course it does. But where did it start? That's the key question and if intelligent design was at the beginning then surely evolution could be a part of that design. |
I am not the one who used the Hitler comment and I found that to be unconscionable and cruel. And as a man I tend to stay away from commenting on issues of infertility etc. because I feel that women have a much greater insight and far more to add on both an intellectual and emotional level. Some of the greatest comforters are those who KNOW what the other person is going through. Knowledge with experience can provide far more than knowledge alone. I have a learning and chemical deficit. It has caused me great struggle over my many decades of life. More so before I knew about it. I resented having it, didn't understand why and frankly the pain caused through the years can never be fully dealt with. The idea that God creates us as we are began to eat at me. Why would God afflict me so. I have heard people say...God created me this way and God doesn't make mistakes. That bothered me. See, not only can I assess my own personal deficit I look around and see children born without a limb or with a disease that will be a lifelong affliction. And I have known people who had children born so ill they didn't live very long. How could God do that? My only answer...he didn't. The world is imperfect and things happen. Have you ever met an old person you found incredible? Wise. Kind. An encourager. Someone that people loved to be around and they seemed to move effortlessly through life. And most of all...they were at peace. Sometimes, and more often than not, people would be shocked at their life story. It wasn't what happened to them, good or bad, that shaped them but how they handled it all along the way. That's why James 1:2-4 is among my favorite verses...it's part of how to handle adversity. 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. BTW...cliff notes version of how to live as a Christian, or live well even if you don't believe?...try the entire book of James. |
Continuing with your premise, who designed the designer? That is -- how did it get there? what created it? Also -- assuming a designer, how does it fit with the stories of the multiple religions that have formed over time? Is the designer one of those gods? for instance the god of Abraham who eventually had his own son, who came to redeem the world for those who believe in him? Or is it Abraham before Jesus, or Abraham after Mohammed or some other god completely? To me, it all sounds like the type of speculation that can never be solved - it's just what people want to believe, what seems right, or what they've been taught by various religions. As for "the co-discoverer of DNA" whom you quote - why not name him? It was Francis Crick, an evolutionist who did not hold the beliefs you imply above. As per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick Crick referred to himself as a humanist, which he defined as the belief "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority." He publicly called for humanism to replace religion as a guiding force for humanity, writing: "The human dilemma is hardly new. We find ourselves through no wish of our own on this slowly revolving planet in an obscure corner of a vast universe. Our questioning intelligence will not let us live in cow-like content with our lot. We have a deep need to know why we are here. What is the world made of? More important, what are we made of? In the past religion answered these questions, often in considerable detail. Now we know that almost all these answers are highly likely to be nonsense, having sprung from man's ignorance and his enormous capacity for self-deception... The simple fables of the religions of the world have come to seem like tales told to children. Even understood symbolically they are often perverse, if not rather unpleasant... Humanists, then, live in a mysterious, exciting and intellectually expanding world, which, once glimpsed, makes the old worlds of the religions seem fake-cosy and stale... ":[78] Crick was especially critical of Christianity: "I do not respect Christian beliefs. I think they are ridiculous. If we could get rid of them we could more easily get down to the serious problem of trying to find out what the world is all about.":[79] Crick once joked, "Christianity may be OK between consenting adults in private but should not be taught to young children."[80] --- So, were you ignorant of this information, had you been misled by someone or were you actively trying to mislead others? Whatever the case, now that you have the correct information, please don't misrepresent Crick again. |
I have found that a lot of young people, old ones too, are finding it increasingly difficult to have faith in a God that rewards some and condemns the rest to suffering extreme pain through eternal punishment. I can understand that. But if you search the bible you will find that, among other things, the wages of sin is death...not eternally burning in hell. The bible even speaks of the second death. So if one were to know that God promises eternal life if you live this way...and if you don't life will end for all time...would that possible change their view of God? |
Does this mean you decided not to believe in God or is this another example of god only being involved in the good stuff and not the bad stuff? |
This assumes they think the Bible is a reliable source of guidance and information and is comes from god, either directly or via human scribes. These days, as people know more about the Bible, the less they see it that way. |
No...the reason I included Crick's belief that life was created by an intelligent lifeform not of this world was so that there would be no misunderstanding that what he said was about God. And this wasn't about Crick's beliefs so much as his amazement at the complexity of what they found. This complexity was so vast this man turned against the theory of evolution from a chance beginning with a single cell that so many scientist claim as the source of life, who calls Christian beliefs fables, turns around and proposes directed panspermia as the source. A theory that has absolutely no way of being proven. One other thing...if I were writing a book I would have expounded more on Crick. But by including his quote I gave the opportunity, intentionally, for anyone reading what I wrote to do searches. Wonderful thing the internet. As for who designed the designer? I have no idea. It is a mystery that I cannot solve. But it is one that regardless of a belief in God exists for all things. How did matter come to be? And how is the vastness of space and all that is contained in it sourced from a single 'ball' of it? |
Except Crick did't say that -- you did. So if you're not being purposefully deceptive, it would seem that you have masterfully deceived yourself. By including his quote, without naming him and without including other quotes about his specific feelings about religion, the only "opportunity" you provided was for misinformation. Thanks for your response -- it's a mirror into your mind and may also demonstrate how some religious people consciously or unconsciously delude themselves and others. |
I believe the assumption was self evident. And there is much wisdom in the bible that even if you don't believe in God can be of great assistance in peoples lives. |
| You mean like the wisdom on how to keep slaves? |
The assumption is self-evident to people who have specific beliefs about the high value of Bible. The are many books that can be of assistance in people's lives that unlike the Bible, are not also filled with contradictions and stories of slaughter and domination and do not require years of study to fully understand. The Bible has great value as ancient literature that has had a big impact on humans. It is not very valuable as a source of wisdom and guidance for modern people. |
| The greatest thing about believing or trusting God is that it out of our free will. The spirit of God convicts the hardest of hearts and until you experience God in this way you cannot understand. I pray that God will convict our hearts and cause us to experience his amazing power that will make us fully trust him and give thanks in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES OF LIFE |