Transgendered woman in the womens locker room

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maleness is genetic. As is stupidity. But thankfully, because we are sentient beings,we can rise above the limits of our DNA.

If you don't want your kid to see naked people, bathe at home.

Signed,
Someone who cannot imagine the courage it takes to live transgendered.

What would stop straight men from hanging out in the women's section, if they claimed that they were transgendered? Is there a limit to anything?

Have you ever met a transgendered person? It's not like this woman is just claiming she's transgendered to hang out in the women's section. She lives her whole life as a woman. It's not some kind of ploy to see you naked, I promise.

And lay off the pearl clutching about IS THERE A LIMIT TO ANYTHING? It makes you look hysterical.

But you didn't answer PP's question... what stops straight men from pretending they're transgender just to see naked women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Stop it! She is a human being who did not do anything to you.

NP here and as an athlete I find extremely unfair that he gets to run against women.

It is extremely unfair that s/he gets to run as a woman. I did a google on Korean spas and on page 1 came upon reviews where a gay guy wrote that when you have naked people together ... in short the locality has many Korean spas /bath houses but there is more personal interaction at some than others. I do not want to go to a naked bath house or spa since I really did not care to see others. I remember some fat naked ass in a spa descending steps. Just like I don't want to go to a nude beach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

Your remarks are unnecessary and mean, not to mention just wrong. I think she looks like an athletic woman and especially in the upper left photo, is actually quite pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maleness is genetic. As is stupidity. But thankfully, because we are sentient beings,we can rise above the limits of our DNA.

If you don't want your kid to see naked people, bathe at home.

Signed,
Someone who cannot imagine the courage it takes to live transgendered.

What would stop straight men from hanging out in the women's section, if they claimed that they were transgendered? Is there a limit to anything?

Have you ever met a transgendered person? It's not like this woman is just claiming she's transgendered to hang out in the women's section. She lives her whole life as a woman. It's not some kind of ploy to see you naked, I promise.

And lay off the pearl clutching about IS THERE A LIMIT TO ANYTHING? It makes you look hysterical.

But you didn't answer PP's question... what stops straight men from pretending they're transgender just to see naked women?

Do you honestly think this is so likely that it justifies discriminating again an entire group of people who have zero interest in "seeing women naked"?

By this logic, we should simply incarcerate all straight men. Not a bad idea, IMHO, but also not justified.

[Anonymous]

no need to incarcerate, just keep perons with penises out the female facility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maleness is genetic. As is stupidity. But thankfully, because we are sentient beings,we can rise above the limits of our DNA.

If you don't want your kid to see naked people, bathe at home.

Signed,
Someone who cannot imagine the courage it takes to live transgendered.

What would stop straight men from hanging out in the women's section, if they claimed that they were transgendered? Is there a limit to anything?

Have you ever met a transgendered person? It's not like this woman is just claiming she's transgendered to hang out in the women's section. She lives her whole life as a woman. It's not some kind of ploy to see you naked, I promise.

And lay off the pearl clutching about IS THERE A LIMIT TO ANYTHING? It makes you look hysterical.

But you didn't answer PP's question... what stops straight men from pretending they're transgender just to see naked women?

I didn't answer it because I do not believe for a second that it would ever happen. I know a lot of creeps who probably think they'd love to hang out in the women's locker room, but I'd be SHOCKED if any of them would go so far as to pretend to be transgendered to do it. The sort of creepy sexism that would accompany a desire to see a group of strange women changing clothes in a public place is usually also accompanied by hyper-masculine homophobia and transphobia.

My point was that the PP's hypothetical straight man (and keep in mind that being a transwoman or a transman does not automatically make you gay) pretending to be transgendered is simply not going to happen. If you want to have debates about safety policy, fine. I've read the press surrounding this incident and I don't think we're dealing with an activist trying to make a point or a secret trans agenda of any kind. What happened was that a transwoman, who lives her entire life as a woman and visits places like Spa World frequently, was asked to leave an establishment by the management of that establishment. Their public statements about excluding people with "abnormal sexual orientations" are discriminatory, and people have complained. Apparently, their policy has been changed and they now "welcome" LGBT folks.

If this had been my business, and I'd received complaints from women saying "THERE IS A MAN IN THE WOMEN'S AREA", I would have investigated the situation. Upon learning that the "man" in question was transgendered, my response to the complaints would be that this person identifies as female and that MyFictionalBusiness respects and welcomes all gender and sexual identities. If the complaining people wanted to leave upon hearing that policy, I would be happy to refund their money.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

:as a business-owner, I wouldn't welcome any client who upset the other clients. Especially if there is another half of my facility which could service that client without remark, and with equal comfort

[Anonymous]

People go to Spa World knowing they provide a naked single sex facility in certain areas. That is for the comfort of the patrons. While some may not be bothered by it others are. What they provide isn't a secret. If you can't follow the rules of the ONE facility then you are free to go to another, less restrictive facility. She chose to go to this facility knowing what was required of it. Bad choice.

[Anonymous]

Here's what I don't understand. when we go to a spa that requires nudity - and it's a sauna, bath house, whatever where you're getting wet - as you're walking around naked, how do I know that the person walking around in the same room I'm in with a penis is a transgendered person or just a man? Without clothes, make-up, heels, hair-do - just naked skin and genetalia, AT THE TIME of my visit - that person looks like a man.

Yes, the business can research (how? get PIs to follow her? that's awfully expensive - especially if there's more than one TG person and that's not a good business practice to spend such money for one client) but they aren't going to have an answer during my visit. So, yes, I'd be uncomfortable with an unknown TG person sharing my women-only facility. Obviously, if I knew the person or they were a regular and I was a regular, then it would be fine for me. but if it was a one-time visit for me or her then I really can understand how uncomfortable I'd be looking over and seeing what appears to be a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maleness is genetic. As is stupidity. But thankfully, because we are sentient beings,we can rise above the limits of our DNA.

If you don't want your kid to see naked people, bathe at home.

Signed,
Someone who cannot imagine the courage it takes to live transgendered.

What would stop straight men from hanging out in the women's section, if they claimed that they were transgendered? Is there a limit to anything?

Have you ever met a transgendered person? It's not like this woman is just claiming she's transgendered to hang out in the women's section. She lives her whole life as a woman. It's not some kind of ploy to see you naked, I promise.

And lay off the pearl clutching about IS THERE A LIMIT TO ANYTHING? It makes you look hysterical.

But you didn't answer PP's question... what stops straight men from pretending they're transgender just to see naked women?

I didn't answer it because I do not believe for a second that it would ever happen. I know a lot of creeps who probably think they'd love to hang out in the women's locker room, but I'd be SHOCKED if any of them would go so far as to pretend to be transgendered to do it. The sort of creepy sexism that would accompany a desire to see a group of strange women changing clothes in a public place is usually also accompanied by hyper-masculine homophobia and transphobia.

My point was that the PP's hypothetical straight man (and keep in mind that being a transwoman or a transman does not automatically make you gay) pretending to be transgendered is simply not going to happen. If you want to have debates about safety policy, fine. I've read the press surrounding this incident and I don't think we're dealing with an activist trying to make a point or a secret trans agenda of any kind. What happened was that a transwoman, who lives her entire life as a woman and visits places like Spa World frequently, was asked to leave an establishment by the management of that establishment. Their public statements about excluding people with "abnormal sexual orientations" are discriminatory, and people have complained. Apparently, their policy has been changed and they now "welcome" LGBT folks.

If this had been my business, and I'd received complaints from women saying "THERE IS A MAN IN THE WOMEN'S AREA", I would have investigated the situation. Upon learning that the "man" in question was transgendered, my response to the complaints would be that this person identifies as female and that MyFictionalBusiness respects and welcomes all gender and sexual identities. If the complaining people wanted to leave upon hearing that policy, I would be happy to refund their money.

You will refund a boatload of money, and lose a lot of business.

[Anonymous]

If penises are no big deal, then why are people choosing single sex massage facilities? Because you want to see someone's dick?

Trans activists will only be happy when everything is coed and you are forced to be around naked men everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Ok, for me, it comes down to this:

I have studied transgenderism. I want everyone to have the rights they deserve.
But, my own comfort level is also important. If I am in a female locker room, I really don't want to see a grown man's penis (nor do I want my kids to, not to sound like a prude). That's it. Post-op, no penis? Fine.
I am probably being unfair, but for me, that's what it comes down to.

[Anonymous]

Do you think maybe with transgendered people, there's a very deep need to be accepted by the sex you identify with because you know people usually can tell you aren't that sex? So by going to a place where women are naked and expect to only be with other women and if you can find acceptance, you really feel better and truly accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, for me, it comes down to this:

I have studied transgenderism. I want everyone to have the rights they deserve.
But, my own comfort level is also important. If I am in a female locker room, I really don't want to see a grown man's penis (nor do I want my kids to, not to sound like a prude). That's it. Post-op, no penis? Fine.
I am probably being unfair, but for me, that's what it comes down to.

So... you're okay with the transgender people who can afford expensive surgery. But not the poors. Got it.