Do you secretly resent DH for not making enough money for you to be a SAHM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't stand sissy men who have a problem with providing for their family, and the emasculating women who support this. Women have their burdens to bear in life and so do men. Stop acting like it's some sort of shock.

Yes, and they are the same burdens. I wasn't raised to cook, clean, do laundry and wipe mens' asses. I EARN my money. In fact, I outearn my DH so go suck rocks.

Women and men are equal but different. The burdens are not the same. Women like you are why society is declining, and it's not because you have a job outside of the home. It's because of your nasty attitude and backwards values.

[Anonymous]

"It is NO secret that in this country all of the great people who make it their profession to care for children are underpaid (child care workers, nannies, teachers)"

I disagree. My nanny barely graduated from high school and is marginally literate. She makes over $40,000 a year and is a homeowner. Do you really think she's underpaid for her skills and education?

[Anonymous]

"FWIW, it was DH who insisted on hiring domestic help so that I could focus on the kids and still have some moments for myself. "

Of course it was. After all, he's earning all the money.

[Anonymous]

dcum = Depressing Critical Undermining Mothers....

it's great that women are a major force in the workplace, and its great that some women can afford to choose to stay home with their kids. no one choice is right for all families...however, if you want to stay home but can't afford it because you're husband doesn't make "enough" either you're just part of the vast majority of people in the world who aren't wealthy (welcome to reality outside DCUM!), or you are not creative enough/determined enough to cut back enough to make it on one salary (I know I'm not, which is one of the many reasons why I work). and that's why this is not really an argument about feminism as much as it is about economics....

However, one reason why this is NOT the 50s is that the expectation that one salary (whether a man or a woman's) is enough to provide for a middle class existence is no longer valid for most of us. While the top 1 percent have gotten fabulously rich in the past 30 years, real wages and standard of living has stayed flat or dropped for most workers, while the relative cost of education, childcare, and other stuff has gone way up. One mid range salary used to cut it, now it doesn't. A rising tide in this case has lifted a few boats really really high, but the rest of the boats have started to sink....

[Anonymous]

"YES! Agree completely. And do you think that your BF is a backwards, bizarre, 1950s, Donna Reed who is being entirely unfair to her husband??? I hope not - and I would think not, since you find her worthy to be a BF. And yes, I am like her in that I would resent being away from my DCs 40 hrs a week, but not like her in the exercise/maintenance =) "

No, of course I don't think my BF is bizarre. I think she found someone whose ideas of family life match hers very well. I'm pretty sure her husband is proud or something that she doesn't have to work, and didn't, even when he was unemployed for a long stretch. They are both from well off families, both had moms who SAH and did the charity circuit. She was the quintessential B student in school, reasonably smart but not driven. I'm just an entirely different animal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"FWIW, it was DH who insisted on hiring domestic help so that I could focus on the kids and still have some moments for myself. "

Of course it was. After all, he's earning all the money.

He does. And I handle all of the finances. DH considers the money he brings home "our" money and recognizes the value in what I do for our children. Does that make you mad?

[Anonymous]

"What I did not realize was that my choice was not made in a vacuum. My choice had a profound impact on my DH and it altered his ability to be focused as a husband and a father. He was more focused on “providing” for the kids and not as much on being a “father” to them. As a result, our priorities became mis-aligned and we had some serious problems - we were separated for 6 months and the SAH issue was a major contributing factor. We are doing much better but it took counseling and sacrifice on both our parts. "

Career WOHM here. I am astounded you didn't realize your choice was not being made in a vacuum. Didn't you talk constantly to your DH about this major lifestyle choice? DH and I agreed about a month into our relationship that he would feel too much pressure to ever be the sole breadwinner, and I agreed for myself. That was long before we got engaged!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:dcum = Depressing Critical Undermining Mothers....

it's great that women are a major force in the workplace, and its great that some women can afford to choose to stay home with their kids. no one choice is right for all families...however, if you want to stay home but can't afford it because you're husband doesn't make "enough" either you're just part of the vast majority of people in the world who aren't wealthy (welcome to reality outside DCUM!), or you are not creative enough/determined enough to cut back enough to make it on one salary (I know I'm not, which is one of the many reasons why I work). and that's why this is not really an argument about feminism as much as it is about economics....

However, one reason why this is NOT the 50s is that the expectation that one salary (whether a man or a woman's) is enough to provide for a middle class existence is no longer valid for most of us. While the top 1 percent have gotten fabulously rich in the past 30 years, real wages and standard of living has stayed flat or dropped for most workers, while the relative cost of education, childcare, and other stuff has gone way up. One mid range salary used to cut it, now it doesn't. A rising tide in this case has lifted a few boats really really high, but the rest of the boats have started to sink....

Our boat has lifted up to the 1% but I haven't decided to bail....I think some of these people not using their degrees could be there but they don't feel like working even though their kids are in school full day.

I am not talking about the American middle class and it's disappearance. I am solely talking about the DCUM 'poor=me' population. They want it all, but don't want to work. They ask ?s about how those of us can live in certain homes and don't believe we did it with no prior home sales or assistance from relatives. They sit and bemoan their fate...why oh why can't I marry rich. The funny thing is--unlike op DH does make enough for me to sah...but I don't. I chose the flex., creative wah route to stay relevant long after my kids are in school. This has made our boat rise even farther.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"FWIW, it was DH who insisted on hiring domestic help so that I could focus on the kids and still have some moments for myself. "

Of course it was. After all, he's earning all the money.

He does. And I handle all of the finances. DH considers the money he brings home "our" money and recognizes the value in what I do for our children. Does that make you mad?

No. But I must be really fabulous - I bring in more than half the money and manage all our finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't stand sissy men who have a problem with providing for their family, and the emasculating women who support this. Women have their burdens to bear in life and so do men. Stop acting like it's some sort of shock.

Yes, and they are the same burdens. I wasn't raised to cook, clean, do laundry and wipe mens' asses. I EARN my money. In fact, I outearn my DH so go suck rocks.

Women and men are equal but different. The burdens are not the same. Women like you are why society is declining, and it's not because you have a job outside of the home. It's because of your nasty attitude and backwards values.

Tell you what, let's have all the men do the scutwork for a few millenia and then we'll talk. Damn right I'm a feminist. How exactly am I different from a man in terms of career and housework?

[Anonymous]

"However, one reason why this is NOT the 50s is that the expectation that one salary (whether a man or a woman's) is enough to provide for a middle class existence is no longer valid for most of us. While the top 1 percent have gotten fabulously rich in the past 30 years, real wages and standard of living has stayed flat or dropped for most workers, while the relative cost of education, childcare, and other stuff has gone way up. One mid range salary used to cut it, now it doesn't. A rising tide in this case has lifted a few boats really really high, but the rest of the boats have started to sink...."

But we're still stuck in the '50s, because I get criticized, sometimes to my face, for my choice to continue to WOH even though my husband makes over $200,000 a year. I work not because I have to, but because I have the education, drive and legal right to work rather than SAH and drink in the afternoons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:27, I don't equate people's worth with their income either. I was making a point with an inflammatory remark. I wrapped up a woman's decision to WOH in the most insulting way. Not because I really feel like WOHM are abandoning their children - but to serve as a rebuttal to the remarks made on this thread that seem to cast SAHM as backwards for making a choice to stay home.

My saying it is unfair to the kids to WOH - is like the PPs who said it is unfair to DH NOT to work. Casting WOH as selfish - like casting SAH as 1950s.....

Tyring to make a point is all.

Well, when you are deliberately insulting you may be disrespectful in ways you do not intend. You come across as an elitist bitch. I have been a SAHM and I did not find any of the posts insulting towards SAHM. I think your grasp of this discussion is weak and you are insecure about your choices. Tired of people being bitchy on this forum and thinking they are effectively "making a point."

Agree completely. The reference to 'minimum wage childcare workers' is disgusting. The women who work at my son's daycare are loving and intelligent - and providing for their families. I have infinitely more respect for them than I do for someone like you (referring of course to the PP who made the childcare workers comment, not the immediate PP). I also think it's infinitely better for a child to be surrounded by people like them than spend all of his/her time with an elitish bitch like you.

You guys really love to throw that b-word around a lot. Anyway - I know this is going to probably sound like the recent Rush Limbaugh apology - but I really did not mean to belittle anyone with my comment about minimum wage workers. I'm sorry.

It is NO secret that in this country all of the great people who make it their profession to care for children are underpaid (child care workers, nannies, teachers) Do I think that makes them less than worthy? No. I was trying to make a point about what we say about each others choices - and am wondering WHY, still, that WOH moms can say anything, but SAH must silently stand by our choice as to not offend anyone.... no one has addressed this - too busy with the nasty name calling.

you didn't mean to imply that they were worthy but underpaid. give me a break. you think you're better and more important to society than they are though objectively, they're outearning you.
WOH moms can say anything? hve you read this board? WOH moms are attacked often, as well.

And by "outearning" me, they are "better and more important to society" than me, right? Because I do not earn a paycheck, I am, in fact, beneath them? So you are saying that they are beneath anyone who "outearns" them? Who is the elitist? Who is the one attaching personal worth to a paycheck?

I haven't seen a single attack on WOH on this thread. Just the SAHM Donna Reeds. No, have not read the entire forum.

I don't think either of you are better or worse than the other. I don't even think it's possible to quantify people that way. I think that they contribute more to society than you do, though, yes. These people mean an enormous amount to me and have enriched my family's life immeasurably. My son is surrounded by love and kindness and I know dozens of other families at the place he attends that feel the same way. It has nothing to do with a paycheck. They are helping many, many people are you chose to attack them, even though you now claim you didn't. Keep in mind I'm not the pp who initially called you an elitist bitch. I don't have a problem with SAHM's - especially, as I mentioned, since I don't think you're doing your kid any favors by denying him/her time with those 'miminum wage workers' you detest so much. Sure, sure - you were trying to make a point - but if you didn't think of them that way to a degree it'd never have occurred to you.

You sure feel confident making huge assumptions about me based on an online thread. You know absolutely nothing about me, my kids, our life or what I do to "contribute to society." So go ahead and hold on to your judgements if it makes you feel better.

The point I was trying to make was apparently lost on you. My turning the tables was an attempt to demonstrate how inappropriate I thought some of the previous comments about SAHMs were. I do not detest anyone - especially do not detest anyone based on how much they make - how could I, when as the PP pointed out, my work does not even earn a paycheck???

It is laughable that anyone thinks that I think I have some sort of superiority complex when I spend my days wiping bottoms, noses, kissing ouches, helping with homework, chauffeuring, cleaning up after my kids, etc. I am not lazy, not spoiled, don't feel "entitled" to be supported by DH, I do not lack ambition....I simply felt like this (parenting) was THE most important thing for me to spend my 'full' time on right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"However, one reason why this is NOT the 50s is that the expectation that one salary (whether a man or a woman's) is enough to provide for a middle class existence is no longer valid for most of us. While the top 1 percent have gotten fabulously rich in the past 30 years, real wages and standard of living has stayed flat or dropped for most workers, while the relative cost of education, childcare, and other stuff has gone way up. One mid range salary used to cut it, now it doesn't. A rising tide in this case has lifted a few boats really really high, but the rest of the boats have started to sink...."

But we're still stuck in the '50s, because I get criticized, sometimes to my face, for my choice to continue to WOH even though my husband makes over $200,000 a year. I work not because I have to, but because I have the education, drive and legal right to work rather than SAH and drink in the afternoons.

Good for you!! You have a right to make whatever choice makes you and your family the happiest! But WHY, in the same breath that you defend your right, do you have to turn around and insult SAHs? I don't drink! What a terrible generalization. This is exactly what I am talking about!

[Anonymous]

I bring home a factor of 7X the salary DH earns, so I will never be able to SAHM. Sigh. Luckily, I truly love my job. But, I do sometimes (usually when my wee one is snuggled in my arms and I've only had 2 hours with him that day) wish DH earned more, so that I could pare back my hours to a reduced schedule, etc. It's not a practical reality for us, or my line of work, and DH contributes so much love, support, time, effort, work, and more to our family and household that 98% of the time I'm fine with it and just thanking my lucky stars for him and all we have. But yes, 1 or 2% of the time, I do secretly resent it. And then I get over it, and am imminently thankful once again.

[Anonymous]

"Do you have ANY idea what it takes to care for 3 young children? And do it WELL? Yes, I do plenty without having to scrub the floors and clean toilets. "

Such as? And B.S. crap doesn't count.

Go.