S/O Why can’t moms just chill and be nice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because in truth, women tend to be very catty ➕ emotional.
They are also very competitive and tend to hold a grudge.

Women = drama.
Period.

Signed,
A Woman 👩🏻

I disagree. My woman friends aren't catty or emotional, because I am not friends with catty and emotional people.

I have a male friend who quit the volunteer fire department because of all the catty, backstabbing men involved in it. I heard the same thing about commercial crab fishermen. It may or may not be more prevalent in women, but this behavior isn't gender specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve experienced 99.9% chill and nice moms. The ones who are weird or very stressed are doing their own thing, not trying to play any social games. I continue to think people who complain about this on dcum are pretty much in their own heads about it. The examples are never persuasive.

You clearly are a mean girl or live in a freaking bubble. It's horrible to gaslight people who've been through it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

No one is denying that some women do this some of the time. We are saying that this behavior isn’t unique to women and it isn’t universal or even particularly commonplace.

Yes, some of the posters are saying it doesn't happen and blaming the bullied. It's sick. It is commonplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

You answered your own question.

My DH does not care if other dads like him. He is not in competition with other dads. He is not offended when other dads are cold or standoffish, he just think "oh this person is not friendly, I will not bother them anymore."

But I get why it happens because also society expects way more of moms, and just has higher standards, and this encourages a culture of comparison. The bar is lower for dads which means more of them clear it, and they can be more chill knowing they are meeting the minimal expectations of parenthood. Women often live in a constant state of insecurity that they aren't good enough, and this breeds competitive, unkind behavior towards one another.

Really does anyone have time for this middle school girl drama? Try to be nice and move along if nothing else.

Dumb and condescending in two sentences. Brava.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Denying someone else's experience and saying "that doesn't happen" is gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I dont know-- dads can be mean too. My husband is brown and the husbands of all my liberal white friends ice him out a LOT.. the racism from these liberal white DC guys is palpable, the only ones who are nice are europeans/latin americans. it made me realize that most of his friends are guys from other countries, Black or people who only have one american parent or state department people. I wonder how the dc liberal families im talking about would feel if they knew that we thought they were super racist- im super close with their wives but the men are all racist despite being the type who think they are "allies" and hate trump etc.. so women arent the only ones with poor social skills. in general east coast people are a$$holes though- and im a native Washingtonian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

I read those posts and wish they would get a taste of this behavior they are so in denial of. Then I remember, for most of my life I would have also been dismissive of those comments. I think beyond not experiencing it, I wanted to feel like we were collectively above that lowly behavior. Then I experienced it so maybe it was something karmic and with maturity, I am not so doubting of the dilemmas and complaints of other people's experiences. Maybe I didnt want it to be true but I was fooling myself.

Interesting. I've never understood the people who rush in to deny what the op is describing in their post. Most of us know this happens and it isn't just in suburban neighborhoods. It is so common. I think women get a lot of pressure to "bright side" things as if you get brownie points for trying to enforce the belief that life is all puppies, kittens, and rainbows. It isn't and people need help dealing with it. It's horrible to be unsympathetic to people who experience this.

Or maybe the things that are common in your life aren't common in other peoples.

We all get it, you are superior to the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

You answered your own question.

My DH does not care if other dads like him. He is not in competition with other dads. He is not offended when other dads are cold or standoffish, he just think "oh this person is not friendly, I will not bother them anymore."

But I get why it happens because also society expects way more of moms, and just has higher standards, and this encourages a culture of comparison. The bar is lower for dads which means more of them clear it, and they can be more chill knowing they are meeting the minimal expectations of parenthood. Women often live in a constant state of insecurity that they aren't good enough, and this breeds competitive, unkind behavior towards one another.

I was the op from above- the bolded is true- it bothers me more than my husband but then he doesnt think our kid's social circle needs any help from him, he is like we all have our own friends but it doesnt really work that way does it?? as in when your kids are little, the adults at least moms, have to be friends or kids miss out on playdates etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm troubled by the fact that you think this is unique and intrinsic to women. What you're describing - a dynamic where women are mean, toxic shrews and men are cool and "chill" - is so regressive and anti-woman that it feels like something you'd hear 20 years ago.

My guess is that you're giving off "I'm not like the other girls!" vibes that other women find offensive and off-putting. I love women and I'm certainly not going to forge a relationship with someone who thinks women suck and are inherently inferior to men.

OP does not claim this is "intrinsic" to women, nor dues she call women "mean, toxic shrews." Thats all your projection.

OP is describing a personal experience where other moms have been competitive or conformist which is not a behavior she notices in men around her. There are multiple explanations for this, including the idea that women tend to be more competitive or harder on each other *because* of internalized misogyny. Nothing OP has said indicates that she thinks women are intrinsically inferior to men, only that she's noticed a behavior among women in her life that is not present in the men and is asking why.

It is a behavior many women have noticed in groups of women, this isn't a new line of inquiry, it's a documented phenomenon, even if you personally have not experienced it.

The irony here is wild. I know this isn't your intent, but you're describing precisely what the OP is doing in this post.

I disagree that's what she's doing. If you read all of OP's posts, she's talking about specific behaviors this group of moms have engaged in that have led to her feeling judged and hurt (behaviors like criticizing her directly for choices like not dying her hair). I also think it's obvious she's not talking about individual women being chill or nice, but about the dynamics between women. She's asking why, when women are in groups together, is it hard for them to just be accepting and tolerant of each other without judgment and competition.

OP could have framed this better but this isn't a novel observation. Many, many women have expressed frustration with the way women interact with each other, and complained about the exact same dynamics OP describes -- enforced conformity, judgment of any deviation, an emphasis on physical appearance and performance of motherhood. I don't think women do any of this because women just intrinsically are bad. I think we do it because we are all participating in the misogynist pastime of constantly measuring and comparing women in order to find them wanting, so that we may criticize and judge them. All women have experienced this. When it happens at the hands of other women it feels like a betrayal, and when it happens at the hands of an entire group of women it is worse. Admitting this is not misogyny. Women participate in the patriarchy every day. Pointing that out is not misogyny.

It isn't. If that's the only experience you have with groups of women, I feel sorry for you. You're either a terrible judge of character or you're seeing/perceiving these situations in a distorted way.

New poster here. I can not believe you are denying such bullying exists. It is common. I believe that people like you are very comfortable being dishonest. You are really mind f'ing the poster when you claim it is all them. I experienced group bullying after moving in to a neighborhood because I was open about my child having learning disabilities. The general attitude from the women was that we were the "wrong" moving in to the neighborhood.

I did not deny it. I said that it isn’t difficult for groups of women to be tolerant and non-judgmental. You completely misunderstood what I wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

I need therapy because my friends aren't bullies? Strange

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

I need therapy because my friends aren't bullies? Strange

Yes! If you don’t admit right now that women are catty, competitive, and mean by nature and that men are chill, you need therapy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

I need therapy because my friends aren't bullies? Strange

Your experience doesn't negate anyone else's. Nothing changes or makes the existence of bullies less true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

I need therapy because my friends aren't bullies? Strange

I am not the poster or posters you are interacting with but having read your posts here, I'm confident your friend group has a bully in it (or at least someone judgmental and unkind towards other women and determined to "win" instead of empathize when talking with other women about their lives). I wonder why you can't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Ignore these posters op. They always show up to gaslight. There are plenty of us who know exactly what you are talking about. Many of us watch the bullying go on. I keep my distance from the mean girl cliques but it hurts when it affects your kids. And it does.

NP. Having different experiences than you is not gaslighting.

Then the onus is on the person unfamiliar to read and learn. Haven't run into this? Feel free to read others experiences and educate yourself so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way.

Maybe you should read and learn about people who don't live in communities full of bullies then. Perhaps educate yourself.

You are damned and determined to blame the victims here. You need therapy. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a friend of yours.

I need therapy because my friends aren't bullies? Strange

Your experience doesn't negate anyone else's. Nothing changes or makes the existence of bullies less true.

I've never said it does. I only said that it was my experience and y'all jumped down my throat and said I was a bad friend who needed therapy. If you're worried about negating other people's experiences, you might want to look in the mirror.