The T-20 obsession comes down to class, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're setting up a strawman with 'foreclose.' For STEM careers, where you did your undergrad does matter. Georgia Tech, UT Cockrell, Caltech, Rice, MIT aren't just names on the back of your SUV. The research pipelines, faculty connections, peer networks, and venture capital ecosystems (looking at you, Stanford and MIT) shape outcomes in concrete ways, especially for students headed toward PhD programs, elite research positions, or startups.
The law school analogy isn't quite right. A strong LSAT and GPA can get you from Arizona into a T-14, and from there the law school prestige and targeted recruiting does the heavy lifting for clerkships, the academy, big law. PhD admissions, research opportunities, faculty recommendations, the institutional reputation (prestige) runs through all of it in STEM in ways the law school pipeline simply doesn't.

You are correct...but there has to be a reason when you see the undergrads at say Yale or Harvard law school, you may only see 2-3 kids who attended Arizona, but you will see literally hundreds that attended an Ivy or other Top 20 undergrad. Both Yale and Harvard law schools alone will have like 100+ kids who attended Yale undergrad and a 100+ kids who attended Harvard undergrad.

Perhaps it's because Arizona undergrads for the most part just want to practice law in Phoenix or Tucson...I don't know. I would imagine the University of Arizona law school has 100+ kids who went to University of Arizona undergrad.

Yale Law doesn't even have 200 total students in an entire class.

Yeah...that's why the 100+ was for the entire law school. When Yale last published this data, I believe like 29% of Yale Law School students went to Yale undergrad.

Nope. The class of 2028 has 204 students from 85 schools. If the percent were anywhere near that high, we'd be talking 60 from Yale and 142 from 84 other schools. Less than 2 kids on average. The class is not now and never has been that lopsided.

The most recent data I can find on line is the Yale Law bulletin for 2020. It says that out of 636 students in the JD program in 2018, 90 went to Yale undergrad. That's 14 percent, not 29.

The most annoying thing about DCUM's college forum is how often posters pull the wrong numbers completely out of their a$$es when the right ones are so easily searchable on line. It happens time and again.

Way to miss the forest through the trees, but OK 14% went to Yale (which is close to 100, but yes well below 29%).

You have the data, so how many at Yale law went to a top 20 school undergrad in 2018...and how many went to University of Arizona. Or post the link, and I will tell you.

Certainly, when you review the list there are at least 60+ colleges who are just sending 1 kid to Yale each.

Yes, Yale Law in particular enrolls a lot of top 20. It's much smaller than Harvard and more selective. So, yea, it's fair to say if you have your eye on Yale Law School you're better off going to a very highly ranked undergraduate school.

But it's the outlier. Harvard isn't like that because it's three times bigger.

And you can't just look at these numbers in isolation. If you got into a top 10 or top 20 undergrad but decided to go to, say, Arizona, you're likely to do well on the LSAT. And the LSAT counts a LOT for law school admissions -- much more than the SAT/ACT for college. If you have excellent grades at Arizona and a high LSAT to go along with them, you absolutely are quite competitive for top law school admissions. Yale itself might remain a long shot, but it's a long shot for everybody. Even Yale undergrad.

You also have to remember than many of these "non-elite" undergrads are turning down Harvard, Columbia, etc for law school (not Yale; few turn down Yale) because they're expensive. These students are getting merit aid at other schools. Take Amy Coney Barrett the Supreme Court Justice. She turned down University of Chicago Law for a full ride to Notre Dame Law. That happens a lot with the "non-elite" grads. They'll take the money and run more often than the "elite" undergrads because they're not so obsessed with the big names.

I'm not saying you're not better off applying to law school from a top undergrad. All I'm saying is that the gap isn't a wide as you think and the lines are very blurry. The one thing you cannot do is simply like at the number of students enrolled from each undergrad and reach hard and fast conclusions from them.

[Anonymous]

It’s the same reason why parents choose private over public - the peer group.

State flagships often have a lot of unmotivated kids who just want to do bare minimum, get a C and move on. In selective schools kids are driven and curios. I want my DC to be around driven and curios kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the same reason why parents choose private over public - the peer group.

State flagships often have a lot of unmotivated kids who just want to do bare minimum, get a C and move on. In selective schools kids are driven and curios. I want my DC to be around driven and curios kids.

You are so full of shit I can smell it from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the same reason why parents choose private over public - the peer group.

State flagships often have a lot of unmotivated kids who just want to do bare minimum, get a C and move on. In selective schools kids are driven and curios. I want my DC to be around driven and curios kids.

Another vote for "class"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're setting up a strawman with 'foreclose.' For STEM careers, where you did your undergrad does matter. Georgia Tech, UT Cockrell, Caltech, Rice, MIT aren't just names on the back of your SUV. The research pipelines, faculty connections, peer networks, and venture capital ecosystems (looking at you, Stanford and MIT) shape outcomes in concrete ways, especially for students headed toward PhD programs, elite research positions, or startups.
The law school analogy isn't quite right. A strong LSAT and GPA can get you from Arizona into a T-14, and from there the law school prestige and targeted recruiting does the heavy lifting for clerkships, the academy, big law. PhD admissions, research opportunities, faculty recommendations, the institutional reputation (prestige) runs through all of it in STEM in ways the law school pipeline simply doesn't.

Strive much?

DP. You say “strive” like it’s a bad thing. My kid is a striving AI research scientist who no doubt could make a lot more in industry but is choosing academia as a career. DC, whose work focuses on translational AI in health and medicine, is glad to be at a resource-rich, “prestigious” university where they were able to join a lab as a freshman, attain funded fellowships to conduct full-time research over the summers, publish and present at conferences early on in their academic career, and so on.

Just listen to yourself. You sound unhinged.

You sound like unhinged. Why are you going after a stem nerd?

I'm not. I'm going after a STEM nerd's parent.

Why go after the parent of a stem nerd?

Because she's in denial of her own parental failure.

Huh? How is raising a stem nerd a parental failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only HYPMS matter. The rest of T20 are no different from NYU or USC. Or UVA.

Time for the stupid to appear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the same reason why parents choose private over public - the peer group.

State flagships often have a lot of unmotivated kids who just want to do bare minimum, get a C and move on. In selective schools kids are driven and curios. I want my DC to be around driven and curios kids.

What’s curios?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

What is raw talent?
The ability of not having to ask such a dumb question.

Your racism is showing again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

It’s just not a western thing. Some Eastern European whites but mostly east and south Asian kids doIMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

I'm white and I totally get it, Asians deserve everything their hard work gets them! But I don't think it's just Asian culture, but the immigrant mindset, over time with Jewish, Soviet bloc, etc. Hard work=payoff

[Anonymous]

There are at least three types gunning for top schools, especially top privates. There are the smart kids with little money or status who want a rocket to prestige and wealth. There are the wealthy and cultured who want to repeat/pass down a lineage of tradition, pedigree, connections, and culture. And, there are the UMC, who are eager to prove that they’ve arrived — they hope to start the traditions and join the groups occupied by the truly wealthy.

But what really happens to these people? The really smart, hard-working, grit-fueled strivers take jobs at notable firms, but eventually leave to become entrepreneurs. They leave behind the desire for cultural status to get rich. The truly wealthy marry each other, live off trusts, and assume leading cultural roles. The UMC becomes the traditional strivers. They never really integrate with the grit-fueled or the well-connected, but take jobs with high-income and big titles and work long hours for many years, oftentimes on Wall Street, at Big Law, or as doctors. They mostly don’t hold leading cultural roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

It’s just not a western thing. Some Eastern European whites but mostly east and south Asian kids doIMO.

It was a western thing when American whites used to be in the game (before the new Asian immigration era)? How convenient (not)!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

You are a 100% correct. Posters here who claim that highly educated parents value education and therefore send their kids to top 20 are actually status obsessed. Its no different from collecting luxury brand items. Its a signaling mechanism because most people associate intelligence and brilliance with attending a top 20 school so the parents desperately want to signal that. It also signals to others that you belong in that group who ‘care’ about education or status. Its a way to fit in with other status obsessed people. All the claims about opportunities, peer groups etc are just excuses to justify their pursuit of status seeking by way of college admissions. There are numerous opportunities at state flagships and very brilliant and hard working students as well.