The T-20 obsession comes down to class, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not really because the top schools give a ton of fincancial aid. Most of them are need-based and some give automatic full tuition to families that make 200K or less.

Also, 1500 and great grades in STEM is not enough for top 20. Especially not for a STEM major in top 20. You have to have great grades in everything plus have activities where you have made a real impact. 20-30 you can have great grades in everything and just have more regular activities. And so on. Top 20 has an overwhelming number of high stats students and can choose among them.

+1 T20 especially the ivy/T10 give a lot of need based aid, 60% of undergrads are on need based aid at these places, up to incomes near or just over 300k HHI qualifies for partial aid. For the families with 150-300k HHI, these schools are often cheaper than in state, including the expensive flagships like UVA (50k in state). For folks who have saved or have a much higher HHI and are full pay everywhere, it is not necessarily true that they are country club uber rich set. Many of the uber rich, inherited wealth or new-rich families send their kids to TCU, Baylor, SMU from our private. The kids do not have the smarts to get in to the elites without hooks. The smart but not quite super smart $$$ kids do Wake ED lately.
The non-athlete students who go to T10/ivy are either QBridge kids who get a lot of aid, upper middle class kids 150-300k who get a better $ deal at the eilte vs in state, or "regular" rich docs/lawyer/engineer kids who let their top of the class 1550+ intellectual kids go where they want.

[Anonymous]

I was much like your nephew, even was an Eagle Scout and into STEM. I did have perfect grades in all subjects, but at my middling rural school in the south that is hardly noteworthy.

I easily could have had full ride at my state flagship (now ranked T50 in fact), but I desperately wanted to leave my state and this seemed like a good path.

Your nephew likes Arizona, so it makes sense he stayed. For a lot of people, the T10 is a stepping stone to another life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

Those of us with multiple kids who have seen what the public flagship undergrad experience is versus T10/ivy understand fully the reasons people chase the latter, for the right kid where that environment would not be too much. It is not about money it is about the opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the immigrant parent obsession.

If you're at a top private high school, many parents are completely relaxed about sending their kid to place like Colby or Boston College. I know DCUM think they're all nuts but our experience with 3 kids has been the opposite. Parents are very nonchalant about where their kids land. Often the Ivy gunners are, yes, the immigrant famlies in the bunch.

Meanwhile, on Reddit so many freshmen are trying to transfer up from Emory or Rice or Vanderbilt, etc. "My parents are still so embarrassed that I'm not at an Ivy."

What does that even mean in the context of USA, which is an immigration country? Are you saying you are a Native American Indian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the opportunity/connection for us. My kid got in unhooked -Ivy. His Major really benefits from the school (not stem).

What's the major? We're gonna need more info that that. Be serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

It’s a highly educated parent expectation and an immigrant parent obsession. The angst is driven by the latter of the two.

Nope. Its a status seeking thing. Has nothing to do with being highly educated. Purely ego boosting and status related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not really because the top schools give a ton of fincancial aid. Most of them are need-based and some give automatic full tuition to families that make 200K or less.

Also, 1500 and great grades in STEM is not enough for top 20. Especially not for a STEM major in top 20. You have to have great grades in everything plus have activities where you have made a real impact. 20-30 you can have great grades in everything and just have more regular activities. And so on. Top 20 has an overwhelming number of high stats students and can choose among them.

New poster here. Just STFU. That the kid might not have actually gotten in isn't the point OP was trying to make. The point was would it matter.

[Anonymous]

Yes. It’s either old mowing east coast snobs, striver parents that want their kids to become snobs, or immigrant parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the immigrant parent obsession.

If you're at a top private high school, many parents are completely relaxed about sending their kid to place like Colby or Boston College. I know DCUM think they're all nuts but our experience with 3 kids has been the opposite. Parents are very nonchalant about where their kids land. Often the Ivy gunners are, yes, the immigrant famlies in the bunch.

Meanwhile, on Reddit so many freshmen are trying to transfer up from Emory or Rice or Vanderbilt, etc. "My parents are still so embarrassed that I'm not at an Ivy."

What does that even mean in the context of USA, which is an immigration country? Are you saying you are a Native American Indian?

NP here. Do you really need it spelled out? It just means that the parents were born and raised outside the US and culturally they are different from the parents who were born and raised in the US. And, btw, the kids of the immigrant parents are most likely were born and raised here and actually are culturally different from their own parents.

And I am an immigrant parent myself.

[Anonymous]

Sigh. I know I should just go outside and pull some weeds or do something else more useful than participate in yet another pissing match on this board, but I'll bite.

Hard working immigrants and other disadvantaged folks can actually benefit more from a top 20 than others because going to one of them moves them up from first base to third, where most of the others who attend those schools started on third base in the first place. Study after study confirms this.

But if you're ALREADY on third base, as most DCUM families and private school families are, then no it doesn't matter in the slightest.

[Anonymous]

So much angst about why people go to the college they choose to go to. MYOB!

OP - you are so judgy, it's gross! Talk about snobby - jeesh!

[Anonymous]

To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s either old mowing east coast snobs, striver parents that want their kids to become snobs, or immigrant parents.

I’m none of those and really hoped for an Ivy for my unhooked, as they really wanted it. We’re just a regular UMC family that really values education. I know it’s not essential for success and a great education can be had anywhere, but I do think there are a lot of families like us too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

Your post is actually kind of strange. Your nephew seems to want to remain in Arizona and loves to mountain bike. Tucson is nationally-renowned as a great mountain biking place.

If your nephew loved to ski, I bet he would have thought about UC Boulder or maybe even UVM (though likely Boulder would be far enough). If your nephew really wanted to work in finance in NYC, he probably would have looked for schools that give him more access to that...likely East Coast schools.

We have friends in Arizona with a kid who is a theatre nut. The kid is looking at NYU and CMU and also schools in LA (but NYU is first choice).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s either old mowing east coast snobs, striver parents that want their kids to become snobs, or immigrant parents.

I’m none of those and really hoped for an Ivy for my unhooked, as they really wanted it. We’re just a regular UMC family that really values education. I know it’s not essential for success and a great education can be had anywhere, but I do think there are a lot of families like us too.

A regular UMC family isn't regular. It's privileged. And virtually all UMC families "really value education." And you're saying in the very same sentence that your family "really values education" and a "great education can be had anywhere" but that you want an Ivy because you "really value education."

So you're clueless, living in a bubble if you consider yourself "regular," and you're talking in circles all at the same time. Well done!