The T-20 obsession comes down to class, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

In the varsity blues scandal the vast majority of the families are from the West Coast. Majority are non-immigrant upper class private school crowd.

You are just projecting your prejudices.

Again not true. Those were only the ones that you heard about because of famous people involved. And, typically the biggest admissions scandals come from overseas Asians falsifying pretty much everything. How about the Yale girl "from" North Dakota?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

It’s just not a western thing. Some Eastern European whites but mostly east and south Asian kids doIMO.

Yeah sure. White people aren't interested in basketball either, I guess.

I think that you believed that you had a clever riposte but trust me you didn't. Trying to equate an American sport played worldwide to a math competition shows exactly how much you misunderstand society.

It’s the same thing: white people couldn’t compete in those areas, not they don’t want to. Trying to paint it in way it isn’t is laughable.

Keep telling yourself that and then go and see who shows up at the clubs and competitions right from the beginning. Non-participation isn't an indicator of a lack of ability but rather a lack of interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

It’s just not a western thing. Some Eastern European whites but mostly east and south Asian kids doIMO.

Yeah sure. White people aren't interested in basketball either, I guess.

I think that you believed that you had a clever riposte but trust me you didn't. Trying to equate an American sport played worldwide to a math competition shows exactly how much you misunderstand society.

It’s the same thing: white people couldn’t compete in those areas, not they don’t want to. Trying to paint it in way it isn’t is laughable.

Keep telling yourself that and then go and see who shows up at the clubs and competitions right from the beginning. Non-participation isn't an indicator of a lack of ability but rather a lack of interest.

Obviously not true. Are you saying schools in Midwest and south where there are few to no Asian kids have no STEM clubs? I saw otherwise. The fact is that they still can’t compete at national or even regional level where there are Asian participants. Even if what you said was true, which is not, why did white people have interest decades ago when there were much fewer Asians of non restaurant workers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

T20? The only people who say T20 are people who are not on Ivies, Stanford or MIT…. Simple…. Everything else (Dukes, Nwesterns, Notee Dames, Rices of the world) is referes to as T20…please….. have some “class”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

T20? The only people who say T20 are people who are not on Ivies, Stanford or MIT…. Simple…. Everything else (Dukes, Nwesterns, Notee Dames, Rices of the world) is referes to as T20…please….. have some “class”

Always confuses me what are T20s because they keep changing every year. Like UM and WashU made T20 this year, but not last year.
What about T10? They seem to be a stable list.

[Anonymous]

Many ivy and ivy plus obsessed white families at our dmv private.

[Anonymous]

Taken from a trip to ISEF with my white kid, many of the midwest flyover schools or TX or NC or GA kids are Asian, they just happen to live in Kansas, and that's the geographic diversity that MIT, Cal Tech, Brown, Yale wants. My kid is now in at T10 and many of the kids from TX or Indiana or AZ are Asian. One kid's parent is from AZ and works at Google, spends the week at Apple in CA, mom at home with kids. Guess who gets into T10 from AZ? I have to say, these parents have the admissions game down to a science, very, very savvy, and so are the kids, very impressive, I have to say.

[Anonymous]

Not really. T-20 is the only option affordable for DC. Full ride merit aid. In state Maryland and received $0 offer from UMD. Even Montgomery College is more expensive.

[Anonymous]

The word T20 is already lacking class….that already Implies you were not IVY or MIT/Stanford otherwise you would have not used the term T20 to begin with….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

Asians dominate because pretty much only Asians participate.

nah although whites do get discouraged to participate because they're dominated.

It’s just not a western thing. Some Eastern European whites but mostly east and south Asian kids doIMO.

Yeah sure. White people aren't interested in basketball either, I guess.

I think that you believed that you had a clever riposte but trust me you didn't. Trying to equate an American sport played worldwide to a math competition shows exactly how much you misunderstand society.

It’s the same thing: white people couldn’t compete in those areas, not they don’t want to. Trying to paint it in way it isn’t is laughable.

Your racism is disgraceful
.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are at least three types gunning for top schools, especially top privates. There are the smart kids with little money or status who want a rocket to prestige and wealth. There are the wealthy and cultured who want to repeat/pass down a lineage of tradition, pedigree, connections, and culture. And, there are the UMC, who are eager to prove that they’ve arrived — they hope to start the traditions and join the groups occupied by the truly wealthy.

But what really happens to these people? The really smart, hard-working, grit-fueled strivers take jobs at notable firms, but eventually leave to become entrepreneurs. They leave behind the desire for cultural status to get rich. The truly wealthy marry each other, live off trusts, and assume leading cultural roles. The UMC becomes the traditional strivers. They never really integrate with the grit-fueled or the well-connected, but take jobs with high-income and big titles and work long hours for many years, oftentimes on Wall Street, at Big Law, or as doctors. They mostly don’t hold leading cultural roles.

Spot on

[Anonymous]

Some people are drawn to the idea of prestige, but once they realize the return on investment doesn’t add up, that appeal starts to fade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew had a 1500 (or higher) on the SAT, incredible grades in STEM classes, and he's an Eagle Scout. He lives in Arizona. He went to Arizona because he got a full-scholarship. One parent works for a non-profit and the other is a government scientist. He also loves to mountain bike. He has no connection to the Northeast or Northern California. Arizona made the most sense.

There are lots of students like my nephew who have the stats to enroll in the T-20, but don't, for a variety of financial and personal reasons. Many of my colleagues started at state flagships, graduated from top law schools, and won federal clerkships. None of them grew up in wealthy households. Solid middle class. It doesn't seem that not going to a T-20 for undergrad forecloses opportunities later.

Is this T-20 obsession a 1 percenter thing? Is it about impressing the law firm partners? Or the ladies at the country club? Or is it about replenishing those who think of themselves as elites?

I just started reading this board, and the sturm and drang over admission to this small set of schools is BANANAS.

T20? The only people who say T20 are people who are not on Ivies, Stanford or MIT…. Simple…. Everything else (Dukes, Nwesterns, Notee Dames, Rices of the world) is referes to as T20…please….. have some “class”

Class is spelling and punctuating correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems primarily an East Coast obsession.

If you have spent time in the bay area immigrant community you wouldn't say that. Among the non-immigrant upper class private school crowd on the West Coast things seem to be a bit more chill. Very good schools or better are expected but the T20 obsession definitely isn't as strong.

That's because rich people don't need their kids to go to a T10 to make connections. They already have those connections. Their kids will get the top jobs through those connections.

Unhooked kids can benefit most from the T10 connections, but most of the universities have more spots open for legacies, the wealthy and athletes than for unhooked applicatns.

While, this is intuitively true...the wealthiest, most connected rich people still send their kids to T10 schools. Gates' kids at Stanford, Bezos' kids at Princeton (transferred to MIT), Musk's kid at Brown, etc.

It's simply a strange, urban myth that rich parents aren't pretty obsessed with their kids also attending top schools. The crazy top college consultants charge like $750,000 to children of hedge fund founders, PE fund founders, Tech entrepreneurs...and yes, very wealthy international families (though those families are a far cry from immigrant families in the US).

I don't doubt that, and I bet they hide the obsession with elite colleges from other parents. They like to play it off cool.. "Oh, I don't really care where Larla goes to college as long as it's a good fit and they are happy there", all while paying $$$ to college consultants to get their kids into the most prestigious college they can.

I paid $100 for a college student to read one of my DC's essays. Other than that, we didn't pay for any tutors (for any SAT/AP exams) or college consultants. The one person I know who did pay $$$ for a college consultant was an umc white parent.

The stereotyping of Asian parents on this board is off the charts.

-asian immigrant parent

Putting it another way for you: racism and jealousy from the white people are off the chart here.

I think these white parents hate that Asian kids "strive" too hard, making it harder for their kids. They believe that these Asian kids' efforts should be purely based on innate talent. But then these same white parents will pay up the nose for travel sports, college counselors and all kinds of extra curriculars; send them to private schools.. all to package their kid's college application.

This kind of thing happened in the town of Princeton years ago when the white parents didn't like that the Asian kids were coming into their HS with their studying and work ethic, making it harder for their white kids to keep up. The white parents wanted their kids to be able to be involved in extra curriculars and have top grades, but it was getting harder to do that because the Asian kids came into town and up'd the academic rigor. Said Asian students also had extra curriculars and kept their grades up. But, the white parents didn't like that there was "too much pressure" now on their kids.

Same old sh(t - blame the others for taking away what you think is rightfully yours without you having to work too hard. This is very MAGA.

According to my observation, this is actually the case for the most part, i.e., Asian kids tend to have much more raw talent than their white counterparts, which I believe is where the jealousy is really from. For example, look at the IMO outcomes and team selection process, Asians simply dominate. This is not something that can be made up for by work ethic. But white people are just too jealous and reluctant to admit it.

If you have been to Asia, you would know this is simply untrue. Asia also has its fair share of dimwits and low performers. Heck, you dont even have to go to Asia. Just look around even the middling schools here.
It is by sheer population numbers that Asian students seem to dominate. When 1/6th of the world's population in Mainland Chinese, you will have that proportionate share of talent.

[Anonymous]

Asian populations, like all populations, have a distribution of wits. It’s always been the case that immigrants represent a small segment of their home population — generally, smart and disproportionately ambitious but lacking significant opportunities in their home country.