Second Shift - sucks for dads too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

My mom is the exact opposite. She constantly compares my husband unfavorably to my dad. My dad never made us so much as a sandwich, helped with homework, read to us, tucked us in, NOTHING! He went to work and laid in his recliner. Yet my mom says he was such a good provider and my husband should be making $$$ by now. “You could have done so much better.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are in their twenties and I honestly think that when people their age say "I don't want to have kids, or maybe just one. When I'm older" it's because they remember what it was when they were growing up and how hard it was with two careers, a couple of kids, a cat, a dog, extracurriculars, no family help nearby, etc. etc. etc.
- They remember the year that my husband and I seriously SPLIT a weeklong vacation with the kids where he flew out on Sunday-Wednesday, then I flew in and finished the vacation with the kids while he flew out because we couldn't make our schedules align.
-They remember the god-awful succession of au pairs and nannies we had, the upsets when they quit, the absurd lengths we went to to keep them, the one that totalled the car with the kids in it, the one that had the boyfriend that was ALWAYS THERE even though we sent him home frequently.
-They remember the 'roster' of meals we had, served the same on Mondays, Tuesdays, because it was the only way we could cope.
-They remember the year that my 'big gift' on Christmas was an electric blanket that you could plug into the car to stay warm while hanging out at someone's extracurricular practice in the parking lot.
-They remember my husband and me tag teaming their swim practices and the time I arrived back from some business trip halfway through their swim practice and I was so tired I couldn't remember their names, etc. etc. etc.
Good times. I kind of see why they don't want it for themselves.

Aw. It sounds like you were doing the best you could, though.

This got me wondering about what the “ideal” or better alternative would be to the above - you would have maybe had to scrimp on vacations and other things with less income, etc.

This is something I’m working through now in trying to figure out what I would want if my partner and I had a kid. He was raised as an only child by a single mom who did a great job with limited resources but was always exhausted - constantly napping/asleep at home - so the home life was peaceful but quiet and a bit boring. I had several siblings, tons of activities, a nice but sort of absent working dad and a SAHM who loved it for a while but then crashed out with depression/exhaustion/resentment in our teens and eventually clawed her way back into the workforce.

There’s really no “perfect” way to do these things, I guess, especially given so many unpredictable variables.

I do think that commutes/drives in this area are horrendous and contribute to a lot of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

Of what/whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

Of what/whom?

Women with husbands who are good husbands and fathers and who are well liked by her parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

Of what/whom?

Women with husbands who are good husbands and fathers and who are well liked by her parents

How did you arrive at that conclusion from what was said, dear? Please show your work.

[Anonymous]

By the time we had kids we were in our late 30s-early 40s and one parent was working from home. Widowed Grandpa came over every workday to hang out and help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

Of what/whom?

Women with husbands who are good husbands and fathers and who are well liked by her parents

How did you arrive at that conclusion from what was said, dear? Please show your work.

I'm just calling it like I see it. You seem really upset that I have a good husband. How awful of me to have enough self respect to know that he is lucky to have me too, even if my mother doesn't think so.The fact that I have some self respect is part of the reason why my husband works hard to be a good partner even if he has a little bit of a complex about it.

[Anonymous]

Normal OP and while you're in it, it feels like it will never end. But it will get better. Honestly before you know it they are off to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

I so identify with this comment. Not so much about my husband, who leans in a ton, but the rest of society that acts like I am SO LUCKY to have landed a guy that is such a great dad. Meanwhile, I have the much more demanding job and still do as much. (I do feel lucky, by the way, but it is so grating when everyone fawns over him for doing what he's supposed to do as a dad).

Omg, yes.

For me the adulation for my DH for fulfilling his role as a parent (he does it very well, I'm grateful!) comes from my mother. She constantly tells me how lucky I am. And I do feel lucky. But I think DH is lucky too, but my mother doesn't.

Are you guys really that blind to the historical expectations that have traditionally surround gender? The reason why it’s notable when a man pitches his full self into childcare is that traditionally men had almost zero expectations to provide day to day childcare but he was expected to work and provide for material needs. That’s the same reason why women are lauded more than a man when she becomes a high ranking corporate leader or a top surgeon or military rank etc. The comments come from a sense of novelty. Your victim narrative is in your own mind. Don’t you think it feels a bit patronizing to a man when he is noted for taking care of his own child? It’s not exactly a great thing for anyone involved.

My husband doesn't think it is patronizing. He internalizes it and expects gratitude from me for being so evolved. He has made comments that I am lucky that he is so "domestic" since I am so lacking in that area. In other words, he is really good at running the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer and making simple dinners (I also do these things regularly but he does it a bit more. I do more of the laundry sorting and putting away and house cleaning). I appreciate it! On the other hand, between my full time job (which brings on about the same money as DH's) and taking the lead on coordinating our child's supports for her special needs, I only have so much time to organize and clean. DH likes to pile up stuff all over the house thinking it is organized, so the house is cluttered and messy.

He is a good father and husband in general but this is his blind spot. When we were dating, he made it clear he was not looking to be a sole provider - he didn't want a SAHM for a wife. And that's what I wanted too. But men in our generation and both men and women in our parents generation too often forget that if both parents are working, it is not okay for the husband to dump domestic responsibilities on the wife. If they are doing their part, that just means they aren't an entitled ahole, and that's a good thing but not a reason for intense adulation or acting like they are God's gift to women.

That sounds like the specific personality of your husband (to be a martyr) and not how I feel at all. Who is providing all of this “intense adulation”?

DP, but my guess is absolutely no one. Martyr/victim types like PP read articles on Jezebel (or equivalents), watch rage bait on YouTube and TikTok, and internalize that noise as real life.

They are married to men they readily admit are good husbands and good fathers, and their number complaint is that their mothers like their husbands? What a nightmare

You sound jealous

Of what/whom?

Women with husbands who are good husbands and fathers and who are well liked by her parents

How did you arrive at that conclusion from what was said, dear? Please show your work.

I'm just calling it like I see it. You seem really upset that I have a good husband. How awful of me to have enough self respect to know that he is lucky to have me too, even if my mother doesn't think so.The fact that I have some self respect is part of the reason why my husband works hard to be a good partner even if he has a little bit of a complex about it.

I said show your work. How did you “see” the prior statement as in any way indicative of jealousy?

Based on your lack of reading comprehension abilities, critical thinking skills, and generally aggressive nature, I think your “self respect” is largely unwarranted. That’s probably why your own mother doesn’t like you.