Two spouses: a play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There definitely seems like a distinct lack of conversation here around who is doing what in this particular play.

But, I also think all this dictating of exactly what kids have to wear for events by the powers that be is madness. In our school, I find the teachers often don’t mention the dress code until the Monday of the week you need it — instead of the week before when normal people could coordinate over the weekend. It makes me totally insane. For example, I’m the mom who travels for work and also makes virtually all our income. But suddenly, my kid tells me Monday night (when I’m in Chicago) that she needs a red dress for Thursday. I’m getting home late Tuesday night and have to work Wednesday. So, the first chance I would have to deal with this is really Wednesday night. And the performance is Thursday!! So, I’m telling my husband that in addition to solo parenting on Monday and Tuesday night for our 16 year old who has a rare genetic disorder and is cognitively a baby (he has to feed her, change her diaper, etc), he needs to drag her out to the store with the other kid to look for the special red dress that she now needs. Or we have to convince my kid to wear some garbage dress that we can overnight from Amazon, which she won’t be happy with and is just bad for the environment since she will never wear it again.

This whole situation is ridiculously unfavorable to the less wealthy. Frankly, I have plenty of money and I’m not interested in buying some one off thing my kid will probably refuse to wear again.

And those of you who think this crap isn’t a pain in the butt mystify me. Of course, doing this one time isn’t the end of the world. But the intensive parenting that is a monster created by our current culture is very challenging. And even though I’m a pretty ardent feminist, Phyllis Shafly wasn’t totally wrong to question why women would want to go to work and do all the work of a housewife. We taught women they could bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan. No one said to the men, “hey, you are really going to have to learn to make the breakfast for your whole family proactively just because you know it has to be done.” I would argue I have one of the most equitable marriages out there, but studies show over and over that my life is the anomaly.

I don’t think this was the point of your post, but I also felt like things were a lot more equitable in our marriage when I was the breadwinner and DH was home with the kids more.
Part of it is that I really do think that it’s easier to do a lot of this “mental load” kind of thing from work, and then hand off the physical tasks to the person at home.
When I was working more, I would read the emails and plan the birthday parties and things while I was at work. And then I would hand off the actual physical tasks to DH to do.
With him as the breadwinner, I’m in charge of both making the “to do” list and checking off all of the items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the thing that’s difficult about these types of asks is 1) there is often not a lot of notice so there’s a bit of a scramble if you don’t have a green shirt (have to not only buy one but buy one that will arrive on time which limits the options) and 2) these things are on top of the million things you have to do already and they tend to cluster around busy times of the year. My husband works more than I do so I don’t mind doing *more* of this stuff but I don’t appreciate having to *always* be the one who finds time to do the extra things.

I try and do what I can to keep the day to day stuff reasonable so I can add on these extra things without being flustered. But it means things like celebrating my kid’s December birthday in January and not doing some of the magic making for Christmas that some people are able to do (it’s also the busy season at my work). And even still it’s sometimes a lot and I wish I didn’t have to be up ordering a shirt once the kids are finally asleep. I can only imagine how nice it would be if when that random email came in I didn’t even think about it and knew my DH would take care of it. I can’t do that because he just won’t if he feels too busy. He is ok disappointing the kids in a way I am not. I have tried it enough times to know that.

And the Greek chorus of “it’s your fault because you knew what he was doing like when you married him” can just shut up because no I didn’t. We both worked all the time, and I had multiple periods of having a more challenging workload and we just powered through kind of surviving. Someone had to change when we had kids but I changed a whole heck of a lot more.

You have multiple children? Your spouse was co-equal with one child, but not more?

What was the family planning discussion like when you discussed having more than one child, where he was a co-equal parent?

The family planning discussion after our first was that I was unwilling to do it all and have a second so I was one and done unless he made some changes. He agreed (I think he intellectually agrees that our split should be more equal) and left his intensive job for one with better hours and did much better for about a year at which time I agreed to have a second child. We had about 6 good months with number 2 (he took his maximum allowed paternity leave and was completely off) and then he started to become dissatisfied with his work. A short time after that he decided he “had to leave” his family friendly job and “the only jobs available” were along the lines of the one I objected to in the first place with zero work life boundaries. I vehemently argued against ALL of this and basically begged him to stay at his current job but I had no more leverage because he only wanted two kids. It has been impossible to argue with because he just says he couldn’t stay and is completely unwilling to do shift his career at all so the options in that narrow definition of his career are relatively limited. So now I make it work. I love my second kid and can’t regret them but this is NOT what I agreed to. I will never know if this is what he planned all along. I don’t actually think so but who knows.

I know other women who have similar stories. It’s more common than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who organized all these events to begin with? Start there.

Sounds like the school. ( except for the birthday party)

I doubt Christmas caroling at the old people’s home is part of the curriculum. With mandatory red dress, and cookies. If yes, the cookies are a home economics project, and mom isn't responsible for making them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the thing that’s difficult about these types of asks is 1) there is often not a lot of notice so there’s a bit of a scramble if you don’t have a green shirt (have to not only buy one but buy one that will arrive on time which limits the options) and 2) these things are on top of the million things you have to do already and they tend to cluster around busy times of the year. My husband works more than I do so I don’t mind doing *more* of this stuff but I don’t appreciate having to *always* be the one who finds time to do the extra things.

I try and do what I can to keep the day to day stuff reasonable so I can add on these extra things without being flustered. But it means things like celebrating my kid’s December birthday in January and not doing some of the magic making for Christmas that some people are able to do (it’s also the busy season at my work). And even still it’s sometimes a lot and I wish I didn’t have to be up ordering a shirt once the kids are finally asleep. I can only imagine how nice it would be if when that random email came in I didn’t even think about it and knew my DH would take care of it. I can’t do that because he just won’t if he feels too busy. He is ok disappointing the kids in a way I am not. I have tried it enough times to know that.

And the Greek chorus of “it’s your fault because you knew what he was doing like when you married him” can just shut up because no I didn’t. We both worked all the time, and I had multiple periods of having a more challenging workload and we just powered through kind of surviving. Someone had to change when we had kids but I changed a whole heck of a lot more.

You have multiple children? Your spouse was co-equal with one child, but not more?

What was the family planning discussion like when you discussed having more than one child, where he was a co-equal parent?

The family planning discussion after our first was that I was unwilling to do it all and have a second so I was one and done unless he made some changes. He agreed (I think he intellectually agrees that our split should be more equal) and left his intensive job for one with better hours and did much better for about a year at which time I agreed to have a second child. We had about 6 good months with number 2 (he took his maximum allowed paternity leave and was completely off) and then he started to become dissatisfied with his work. A short time after that he decided he “had to leave” his family friendly job and “the only jobs available” were along the lines of the one I objected to in the first place with zero work life boundaries. I vehemently argued against ALL of this and basically begged him to stay at his current job but I had no more leverage because he only wanted two kids. It has been impossible to argue with because he just says he couldn’t stay and is completely unwilling to do shift his career at all so the options in that narrow definition of his career are relatively limited. So now I make it work. I love my second kid and can’t regret them but this is NOT what I agreed to. I will never know if this is what he planned all along. I don’t actually think so but who knows.

I know other women who have similar stories. It’s more common than you think.

PP I believe this is very common, and its why I think women should consider single parenting, if at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

My kid never has the color of shirt they need. We don't have clothes in every color of the rainbow at all times (maybe we should, but that would of course be a task that would fall to me, isn't it? and then everyone would make fun of me for being the OCD mom who overplays I'm guessing). She'll have a red dress but it turns out it's two sizes too small.

Like it is bizarre you are assuming that OP's kids already had all the items they needed for these performances -- the entire reason OP is annoyed is because obviously they didn't already have them, or what they had didn't fit, and she had to put effort into helping to buy or borrow items in order to fulfill the requirement. And it was OP who figured out they didn't have that stuff, and did it far enough in advance that they could order things online or go pick something up in a store without having to scramble the night before.

Same with the kid's gift. Yes, children can pick out a birthday gift for a friend. But the act of taking that kid shopping or being organized enough to sit down at a computer with the kid to select something online far enough in advance to get it in time, is work. Also if the kid suggests a gift that costs too much, or the thing they pick is sold out, you have to work through that with them because an 7 year old is not going to just know that Lego Set A is a more appropriate gift than Lego Set B. You have to teach them. And then the gift need to be wrapped and you have to remember to bring it. And no, most elementary age kids cannot do all that independently without quite a bit of handholding from a parent. They aren't slow, they are children.

Is your husband really so incompetent that he can't do these things? Or do you just assume he is? In our house, if DC doesn't ask Dad on their own, I can simply tell them to and DH handles it with no issues.

What is frustrating is that no, of course most men are capable of looking in a dresser, seeing there's no green shirt, and buying a green shirt. That is not a complicated or difficult activity. And YET, a shocking number of dads will act as thought this activity is beyond them. They will say they will do it but then procrastinate, because they have learned that if they put off tasks until the last possible minute, their wives will panic and do it for them rather than disappoint their kids. Or they'll half ass it and do it wrong (they buy a green shirt but it's two sizes too big and comes down to their kid's knees and the kid looks ridiculous and feels even worse) which will lead their wives not to ask at all the next time.

If you have a husband who doesn't pull this crap, congrats. And don't give me that "was he like this before you married him" crap because no, he wasn't. Because we didn't have kids. It started with kids, it often does. I only have one kid because it started when she was an infant and he'd let her sit in her own $hit for hours and claim he didn't smell that the diaper was dirty. Or I'd ask him to get the baby dressed before we left the house and he'd put her in a sleeveless onesie in January. It is weaponized incompetence and many of these men learned it from their fathers and it doesn't emerge until the kids are on the scene because they don't actually mind doing responsible things for themselves, they just do not want to caretake and find ways to get out of it.

Many men are like this, because there are no real social consequences for it.

Most men are not like this at all, but don’t let that stop you from drawing a little caricature to make yourself feel better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Yes, my children are capable of saying what they want to give their friends for birthday presents. WTF.

WTF so they can say "what" but they can't actually shop and by it. Obviously. So more work for you.

Oh FFS, are you completely helpless?

"What do you want to get Simon for his birthday, Larlo?"

"Groot Legos!"

<Internet search, find Marvel Dancing Groot Lego for $35.99 on Amazon. Click "buy now.">

Damn, I'm never getting that minute of my life back. And now I'm so mentally exhausted I need a nap.

Jesus. You pathetic women.

If it’s so easy, why didn’t dad do it?

Because mom would criticize HOW he did it, in all likelihood.

So what? It's dad choice if he wants to let the criticism impact him. He doesn't have to listen to it.

Dads like that don’t give two F’s so criticizing his poor judgment or age inappropriateness or lack of safety with the kids just rolls down the narc’s back and fuels his need for control via stonewalling.

The reason moms criticize in that situation is because she is the one who will be blamed if Larlo shows up to the concert in the wrong outfit or the gift purchased for the birthday party is totally inappropriate. Every time. People will KNOW that dad was the one who got Larlo ready for the concert or bought the inappropriate gift, but they will only judge the mom for failing to do it herself or failing to appropriately supervises her husband (everyone knows men are helpless and can't be expected to do basic things like buy kid's birthday gifts or get kids ready for a holiday concert, who does mom think she is just delegating that task and not following up to make sure it was done correctly).

Thus dads continue to shirk responsibility or half ass parenting tasks, because the only person who will ever criticize them for it is their nagging wife, and women wind up doing everything because it's usually easier to just do it yourself than to delegate the task, watch your DH fail at it, and then STILL be the one getting the scolding email from the teacher or the exasperated look from the birthday boy's parents, while DH is impervious to it because it's not directed at him. No one expects him to be a competent parent.

Nope.

Everyone knows it’s the damn ass Dad.

When Dad shows up to a volleyball game with a a 10 yo who smashes her knee open we all know it’s Dads fault. Not the mom who was at the choir audition with the other kid.

When Dad shows up to the bday party and hangs his 6 yo from a 12’ warped wall and she falls and fractures her legs, we all know it’s the Dads fault. Not the mom who was elsewhere with the other kid.

When Dad goes to playground and doodles around with the drone whilst his 7 yo goes too fast down a big hill she’s not supposed to be on, and busts her chest falling over and onto the handle bars, we all know it’s the dads fault. Not the mom who was doing laundry in the house at 8am.

When dad drops off the kid and they are in their correct uniform, we all k ow it’s the dad’s fault.

When mom’s in a biz trip and the kid doesn’t bring a lunch to the field trip, we all know it’s the dad’s fault.

When dad lets an 8 yo buy a bunch of trash from Amazon for a bday present, we all know it’s the dad’s fault.

When dad forgets to sign up for swim lessons at 8am despite multiple verbal, digital and written reminders and the kid get shut out, we all know it’s the dads fault.

We also know the dad is a failure as a parent. And feel sorry for the kids and mother. Oh well.

That’s a lot of projection right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Yes, my children are capable of saying what they want to give their friends for birthday presents. WTF.

Candy and $67 of makeup! Buy it daddy!

Is your husband incapable of using his brain?

Or are you just the obnoxious controlling type who complains they have to do everything but anytime someone tries to take over, you complain that what they are doing isn't right.

Most dads would know not to buy $67 of makeup for a gift. It may not be exactly what you would have bought...but that's ok.

So ma’am what would you say to him once the above happened? Anything?

What would you say to him the 20th time it happened a year? Anything?

I've never had to say anything because DH is a capable adult. The problem here isn't the "mental load" or whatever. The problem here is your husband is an idiot if he thinks $70 of make up is an appropriate birthday gift.

Correct, he’s an “idiot.”

What’s your next move? Divorce? Coddle him? Sleep with time more? Try to house train him?


Wanna guess why he’s an “idiot”? This is the heart of OP’s post.

Well, if you follow the OP and anything in the press, it’s because he’s lazy, misogynistic, incompetent, self-centered, doesn’t care about anyone else, not parent material, or all of the above.

It probably is all the above. But that's not a one off thing. Her husband suddenly became a self centered idiot after kids? Doubtful

You’re both right.
1) He didn’t rise tot he challenge of being a spouse, parent or homeowner.

2) bachelor days working, having an apartments, leaning or or blaming roommates, a weekly apt maid, happy hour dates, and tagging along on other peoples trips weren’t very demanding Adult responsibilities to test his limits or ability to step up or grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

You just think you have all the answers! But oops! No red dress. Or that green shirt from last year is now 2 sizes too small. What now super mom?

Then either their dad or I buy one or take them to buy it. You do have to do somethings for kids because they are kids. Were you under the impression that you birth them and then magically stuff just happens for 18 years?

Maybe you just have undiagnosed ADHD so basic things are very challenging for you

Nobody says it's hard. But you seem stuck on these very simple tasks. But in a day there are so many very simple tasks. Someone has to do them. And husbands would say they are focused on many other tasks just not the buying shirt tasks. For my house our division of labor is pretty even but no, my husband doesn't have to do the shirt but he is leaving work early today to take the car for an oil change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the thing that’s difficult about these types of asks is 1) there is often not a lot of notice so there’s a bit of a scramble if you don’t have a green shirt (have to not only buy one but buy one that will arrive on time which limits the options) and 2) these things are on top of the million things you have to do already and they tend to cluster around busy times of the year. My husband works more than I do so I don’t mind doing *more* of this stuff but I don’t appreciate having to *always* be the one who finds time to do the extra things.

I try and do what I can to keep the day to day stuff reasonable so I can add on these extra things without being flustered. But it means things like celebrating my kid’s December birthday in January and not doing some of the magic making for Christmas that some people are able to do (it’s also the busy season at my work). And even still it’s sometimes a lot and I wish I didn’t have to be up ordering a shirt once the kids are finally asleep. I can only imagine how nice it would be if when that random email came in I didn’t even think about it and knew my DH would take care of it. I can’t do that because he just won’t if he feels too busy. He is ok disappointing the kids in a way I am not. I have tried it enough times to know that.

And the Greek chorus of “it’s your fault because you knew what he was doing like when you married him” can just shut up because no I didn’t. We both worked all the time, and I had multiple periods of having a more challenging workload and we just powered through kind of surviving. Someone had to change when we had kids but I changed a whole heck of a lot more.

You have multiple children? Your spouse was co-equal with one child, but not more?

What was the family planning discussion like when you discussed having more than one child, where he was a co-equal parent?

The family planning discussion after our first was that I was unwilling to do it all and have a second so I was one and done unless he made some changes. He agreed (I think he intellectually agrees that our split should be more equal) and left his intensive job for one with better hours and did much better for about a year at which time I agreed to have a second child. We had about 6 good months with number 2 (he took his maximum allowed paternity leave and was completely off) and then he started to become dissatisfied with his work. A short time after that he decided he “had to leave” his family friendly job and “the only jobs available” were along the lines of the one I objected to in the first place with zero work life boundaries. I vehemently argued against ALL of this and basically begged him to stay at his current job but I had no more leverage because he only wanted two kids. It has been impossible to argue with because he just says he couldn’t stay and is completely unwilling to do shift his career at all so the options in that narrow definition of his career are relatively limited. So now I make it work. I love my second kid and can’t regret them but this is NOT what I agreed to. I will never know if this is what he planned all along. I don’t actually think so but who knows.

I know other women who have similar stories. It’s more common than you think.

PP I believe this is very common, and its why I think women should consider single parenting, if at all.

You are wrong. Either OP's DH is the exception or OP is lying. People don't pretend with children for a whole year. It's complete BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the thing that’s difficult about these types of asks is 1) there is often not a lot of notice so there’s a bit of a scramble if you don’t have a green shirt (have to not only buy one but buy one that will arrive on time which limits the options) and 2) these things are on top of the million things you have to do already and they tend to cluster around busy times of the year. My husband works more than I do so I don’t mind doing *more* of this stuff but I don’t appreciate having to *always* be the one who finds time to do the extra things.

I try and do what I can to keep the day to day stuff reasonable so I can add on these extra things without being flustered. But it means things like celebrating my kid’s December birthday in January and not doing some of the magic making for Christmas that some people are able to do (it’s also the busy season at my work). And even still it’s sometimes a lot and I wish I didn’t have to be up ordering a shirt once the kids are finally asleep. I can only imagine how nice it would be if when that random email came in I didn’t even think about it and knew my DH would take care of it. I can’t do that because he just won’t if he feels too busy. He is ok disappointing the kids in a way I am not. I have tried it enough times to know that.

And the Greek chorus of “it’s your fault because you knew what he was doing like when you married him” can just shut up because no I didn’t. We both worked all the time, and I had multiple periods of having a more challenging workload and we just powered through kind of surviving. Someone had to change when we had kids but I changed a whole heck of a lot more.

You have multiple children? Your spouse was co-equal with one child, but not more?

What was the family planning discussion like when you discussed having more than one child, where he was a co-equal parent?

The family planning discussion after our first was that I was unwilling to do it all and have a second so I was one and done unless he made some changes. He agreed (I think he intellectually agrees that our split should be more equal) and left his intensive job for one with better hours and did much better for about a year at which time I agreed to have a second child. We had about 6 good months with number 2 (he took his maximum allowed paternity leave and was completely off) and then he started to become dissatisfied with his work. A short time after that he decided he “had to leave” his family friendly job and “the only jobs available” were along the lines of the one I objected to in the first place with zero work life boundaries. I vehemently argued against ALL of this and basically begged him to stay at his current job but I had no more leverage because he only wanted two kids. It has been impossible to argue with because he just says he couldn’t stay and is completely unwilling to do shift his career at all so the options in that narrow definition of his career are relatively limited. So now I make it work. I love my second kid and can’t regret them but this is NOT what I agreed to. I will never know if this is what he planned all along. I don’t actually think so but who knows.

I know other women who have similar stories. It’s more common than you think.

Correct.

They put themselves first all the time, not their kids and definitely not you.

This then forces the other parent to do more for their kids’ development because the other parent is doing so little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who organized all these events to begin with? Start there.

Sounds like the school. ( except for the birthday party)

I doubt Christmas caroling at the old people’s home is part of the curriculum. With mandatory red dress, and cookies. If yes, the cookies are a home economics project, and mom isn't responsible for making them.

It's probably Girl Scouts or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Clear reason why there are so many Gray Divorces.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

My kid never has the color of shirt they need. We don't have clothes in every color of the rainbow at all times (maybe we should, but that would of course be a task that would fall to me, isn't it? and then everyone would make fun of me for being the OCD mom who overplays I'm guessing). She'll have a red dress but it turns out it's two sizes too small.

Like it is bizarre you are assuming that OP's kids already had all the items they needed for these performances -- the entire reason OP is annoyed is because obviously they didn't already have them, or what they had didn't fit, and she had to put effort into helping to buy or borrow items in order to fulfill the requirement. And it was OP who figured out they didn't have that stuff, and did it far enough in advance that they could order things online or go pick something up in a store without having to scramble the night before.

Same with the kid's gift. Yes, children can pick out a birthday gift for a friend. But the act of taking that kid shopping or being organized enough to sit down at a computer with the kid to select something online far enough in advance to get it in time, is work. Also if the kid suggests a gift that costs too much, or the thing they pick is sold out, you have to work through that with them because an 7 year old is not going to just know that Lego Set A is a more appropriate gift than Lego Set B. You have to teach them. And then the gift need to be wrapped and you have to remember to bring it. And no, most elementary age kids cannot do all that independently without quite a bit of handholding from a parent. They aren't slow, they are children.

Is your husband really so incompetent that he can't do these things? Or do you just assume he is? In our house, if DC doesn't ask Dad on their own, I can simply tell them to and DH handles it with no issues.

What is frustrating is that no, of course most men are capable of looking in a dresser, seeing there's no green shirt, and buying a green shirt. That is not a complicated or difficult activity. And YET, a shocking number of dads will act as thought this activity is beyond them. They will say they will do it but then procrastinate, because they have learned that if they put off tasks until the last possible minute, their wives will panic and do it for them rather than disappoint their kids. Or they'll half ass it and do it wrong (they buy a green shirt but it's two sizes too big and comes down to their kid's knees and the kid looks ridiculous and feels even worse) which will lead their wives not to ask at all the next time.

If you have a husband who doesn't pull this crap, congrats. And don't give me that "was he like this before you married him" crap because no, he wasn't. Because we didn't have kids. It started with kids, it often does. I only have one kid because it started when she was an infant and he'd let her sit in her own $hit for hours and claim he didn't smell that the diaper was dirty. Or I'd ask him to get the baby dressed before we left the house and he'd put her in a sleeveless onesie in January. It is weaponized incompetence and many of these men learned it from their fathers and it doesn't emerge until the kids are on the scene because they don't actually mind doing responsible things for themselves, they just do not want to caretake and find ways to get out of it.

Many men are like this, because there are no real social consequences for it.

So he was super involved before kids? Helped around the house? Cooked? Took care of household issues and repairs? Took responsibility for gifts ? I have a hard time believing guys like this were so helpful and involved right up until the second a kid was born.

+.5

This is not always the case but it is true.

Many women who want to start a family and have children will overlook red flags, yellow flags, and settle for faulty spouses who cannot parent.

Whelp, 40% of births in America are to unwed women and the father No Shows forever so guess you’re right. Ma and maternal GMa will raise the multiple baby daddy kids. As best they can or can’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Yes, my children are capable of saying what they want to give their friends for birthday presents. WTF.

Candy and $67 of makeup! Buy it daddy!

Is your husband incapable of using his brain?

Or are you just the obnoxious controlling type who complains they have to do everything but anytime someone tries to take over, you complain that what they are doing isn't right.

Most dads would know not to buy $67 of makeup for a gift. It may not be exactly what you would have bought...but that's ok.

So ma’am what would you say to him once the above happened? Anything?

What would you say to him the 20th time it happened a year? Anything?

I've never had to say anything because DH is a capable adult. The problem here isn't the "mental load" or whatever. The problem here is your husband is an idiot if he thinks $70 of make up is an appropriate birthday gift.

Correct, he’s an “idiot.”

What’s your next move? Divorce? Coddle him? Sleep with time more? Try to house train him?


Wanna guess why he’s an “idiot”? This is the heart of OP’s post.

Well, if you follow the OP and anything in the press, it’s because he’s lazy, misogynistic, incompetent, self-centered, doesn’t care about anyone else, not parent material, or all of the above.

It probably is all the above. But that's not a one off thing. Her husband suddenly became a self centered idiot after kids? Doubtful

He was always an idiot.

But he was young and not responsible for a property or a living child.

He said he wanted all that since that’s what A Man has- a wife, house and kids. So he went along with it and then mentally and physically checked out. Now he’s a tag-along ManChild.

[Anonymous]

OP is stressing over gifting cookies. This isn’t a baby sitting in a bag of crap.

There are people who are genuinely struggling with the necessities. If OP really was struggling she would not even be considering cookie gifts.