Is there anybody who truly believes at Democrats are the reason for the shut down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's totally believable. A clean CR would have avoided a shutdown while allowing for negotiations around Democratic political priorities. Instead, blackmail was employed to try to force those priorities through without further negotiation. It's a form of either extortion, or a negotiating tactic, depending on your perspective, but in either case it's attributable to the Democrats.

The issue is the "allowing for negotiations around Democratic political priorities" simply will not happen. I know it. You know it. We've been watching it for 9 months. Republicans can't, won't, and haven't included them or negotiated with them. On anything.
So this talking point you're offering is complete and utter BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the primaries of 2020, every Democrat candidate for President committed to providing healthcare for illegals. When the Speaker points it out this week, dcum moves the goalpost to Daca.

You people are so predictable and America sees it

lol

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/unearthed-debate-clip-goes-viral-201944091.html


Here is the clip from the 2020 debate.

EVERY Democrat raised their hands saying they would offer illegals healthcare.

Every Democrat!

Paying for this has almost bankrupt CA and other states. Why not remove illegals (or better would have not to let them in the first place), and pay for better healthcare for our elderly and veterans? Or how about reducing the healthcare cost for citizens and legal residents?

Unfortunately this is why the shutdown is not going to be successful for the Dems. The better opportunity was the last CR when Dems could have pointed to things in the BBB that would lead to limits in rural healthcare access or the corruptness of giving the 1% yet another tax break while the rest of the country suffers with affordability.

But the "illegal" issue is the false herring. What Dems still don't get is that expanding healthcare coverage has not/does not lead to lower healthcare costs. The theory behind expanded coverage was that greater access to preventative care would lead to fewer ER visits which is what healthcare orgs said was the root evil of high healthcare costs. We've tested this theory for 10+ years and it has not proven true.

The Dems should have a plan that tests out a new theory and push for that. Not cling on to a failed program.

Dems would love to have a plan that addresses healthcare. ACA was a starting point. But R's have no desire and intention of addressing it other than to undercut or repeal.

So, please, try again. And wehre is this 10 years' tests you reference?

[Anonymous]

The latest headline from CNN saying senate Democrats block the bill to re-opeen the govt. So yeah even CNN believes it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chris Cuomo does.

Why is this so hard for you Republicans to understand?

A LOT has changed since March. So, maybe he's worried about his seat. But also, the Republicans are using scorched earth, and in many instances illegal, tactics to dismantle our government and our democracy. Republicans have refused to include Dems. Have refused to negotiate. They have name called. They have not carried out their constitutional duties. They have lied.
So, there have been 6 months since the last CR, not 6 days. With those changes, whatever vote happened in March is a lifetime ago and irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russ the Reaper knows who is at fault. Unless the Senate passes the CR today, Russ will 'unleash the whirlwind'

Russ the Reaper is fast on his way to becoming Russ the Defendant

Speaking of Russ the Reaper...this trolling video is from the sm account of our esteemed "president."

That's pretty funny, actually. But political leaders should be held to a higher standard than trolling people on the other side of the aisle.

Yeah, I agree. It’s in bad taste several times over, and even setting aside the fact that it’s beneath the dignity of the presidency, it’s kinda cruel to make a meme video celebrating that real human beings may face unemployment and struggle to feed their families. But if we’re going to stoop that low, it was pretty well done in its absurdity tbh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the primaries of 2020, every Democrat candidate for President committed to providing healthcare for illegals. When the Speaker points it out this week, dcum moves the goalpost to Daca.

You people are so predictable and America sees it

lol

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/unearthed-debate-clip-goes-viral-201944091.html


Here is the clip from the 2020 debate.

EVERY Democrat raised their hands saying they would offer illegals healthcare.

Every Democrat!

Paying for this has almost bankrupt CA and other states. Why not remove illegals (or better would have not to let them in the first place), and pay for better healthcare for our elderly and veterans? Or how about reducing the healthcare cost for citizens and legal residents?

Unfortunately this is why the shutdown is not going to be successful for the Dems. The better opportunity was the last CR when Dems could have pointed to things in the BBB that would lead to limits in rural healthcare access or the corruptness of giving the 1% yet another tax break while the rest of the country suffers with affordability.

But the "illegal" issue is the false herring. What Dems still don't get is that expanding healthcare coverage has not/does not lead to lower healthcare costs. The theory behind expanded coverage was that greater access to preventative care would lead to fewer ER visits which is what healthcare orgs said was the root evil of high healthcare costs. We've tested this theory for 10+ years and it has not proven true.

The Dems should have a plan that tests out a new theory and push for that. Not cling on to a failed program.

Dems would love to have a plan that addresses healthcare. ACA was a starting point. But R's have no desire and intention of addressing it other than to undercut or repeal.

So, please, try again. And wehre is this 10 years' tests you reference?

10+ years since ACA is the "test" period.

Coverage expanded during this person = great. BUT Costs continued to rise at the same rate as pre-ACA (one of many charts available: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total%20national%20health%20expenditures,%201970-2023) = not great.

"Dems would love to have a plan that addresses healthcare." = I get that they have no control to pass it now, but they can certainly do the work to craft one now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The latest headline from CNN saying senate Democrats block the bill to re-opeen the govt. So yeah even CNN believes it.

And who owns/controls CNN?

[Anonymous]

"There's no one in America who believes the Dems are in charge. Trump brags about his big victories in the House & Senate. Everyone knows he's controlling govt - in fact, too much. So the argument to blame Ds ... no one believes it. If he wants Democrats' votes, he should get healthcare."

-Ro Khanna

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The latest headline from CNN saying senate Democrats block the bill to re-opeen the govt. So yeah even CNN believes it.

Trump's done whatever he wants for nine months, legal or not. But all of a sudden, he needs 60 votes. GMAFB. Everybody knows this is on the Republicans.

[Anonymous]

Someone who is winning doesn't post crazy messages on government websites blaming the liberals.

Someone who is winning doesn't change out of office email messages blaming democrats.

Someone who is winning has a cohesive message that resonates with the American public without lying.

The GOP fails on all three counts.

[Anonymous]

The House will not convene next week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup. Proven in black and white - when you scroll down from what @GOP highlighted in yellow it CLEARLY STATES that it does NOT apply to illegal aliens. Republicans are LYING about the reasons for the shutdown. If the Republicans are in the right about all of this then why are they telling PROVEN, UNDISPUTABLE LIES?

The fact remains: illegal aliens currently receive free medical care in the United States, where they cannot be refused treatment at any emergency room at any time.

Illegal aliens receive emergency Medicaid under a law passed in 1986. "Hospitals can get federal Medicaid funding to reimburse them for emergency services they are required to provide to low-income individuals, regardless of immigration status, which includes undocumented people," Mr Cuello told us.

"Emergency Medicaid is very temporary coverage for the medical services provided at all emergency rooms, often just one service on one day, but not necessarily ongoing health insurance enrollment, like a U.S. citizen can pay for, or receives by qualifying for Medicaid," he added.

I just want to make it very clear that this Trumper's objection is that undocumented people are not refused treatment in emergency rooms.

I am trying to let that sink in. It sounds like PP is not only against the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act that has been law since Ronald Reagan, but the idea of public hospitals are treating immigrants in emergency rooms as well.

PP would have hospitals refuse the undocumented emergency care. Just when I think people can't go any lower...

Yes.

When I hear people advocate for this, I always ask them how they expect -- in detail -- this to play out.

A grandmother looking after a grandchild who goes into a wheezing asthma attack. She doesn't have the insurance card for some reason, say that the mother just dropped her off while going to the store. Now the grandmother either calls an ambulance or rushes the child in her own car to the ER door. What happens?

Do we have security guards holding the door shut while the grandmother is screaming and clawing at it, her grandchild going blue at her feet? DO we let them inside the door so the child doesn't die outside, but at least under a roof?

What about car accidents? They drag you out from a car crash, but your wallet fell out, or is in the pants they cut off to wedge you out, or whatever. You have broken bones, a head bleed, you need surgery. Do the paramedics call it in and be told to leave you to die on the side of the road, since they can't find proof of insurance, or do we have another scene with the guards holding the ER bay doors shut? How exactly does this play out?

Of course there are going to be non-emergency complaints that could, in theory, play out in some way not quite so egregious. But how do the non-emergency cases play out?

And what about borderline emergency cases? Your father, or grandfather, or uncle, or whomever is shoveling snow and falls down. His chest hurts, and he is sweaty. Does the neighbor who finds him wait until the house can be searched to find the insurance card? How exactly does this work, again?

Maybe your dad (in this new world) always keeps his insurance card on him for exactly this reason. What about your nephew at the pool, who hits his head diving off the board? Do you want a lifeguard earching nearby cars before calling an ambulance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://budget.house.gov/press-release/california-to-spend-84-billion-this-year-on-health-care-for-illegal-aliens


California to spend 8.4 Billion on healthcare for illegals!!!!

Many other states also pay for healthcare for illegal aliens, plus federal “emergency Medicaid” dollars pay for free healthcare for illegal aliens: (From the BBC):

“Can undocumented immigrants get free healthcare in US? . .
"Under longstanding policy, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to enrol in any federally-funded health coverage programs including Medicaid, CHIP, or Medicare, or to purchase coverage through the ACA Marketplaces", Drishti Pillai, KFF's Director of Immigrant Health Policy told us.

However, undocumented immigrants can receive emergency Medicaid, though, under a law passed in 1986. "Hospitals can get federal Medicaid funding to reimburse them for emergency services they are required to provide to low-income individuals, regardless of immigration status, which includes undocumented people," Mr Cuello told us.
"Emergency Medicaid is very temporary coverage for the emergency services, often just one service on one day, not ongoing health insurance enrolment like a US citizen gets," he added.

Reagan was president.
GOP controlled the Senate.
GOP was the minority in the House, but not by much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup. Proven in black and white - when you scroll down from what @GOP highlighted in yellow it CLEARLY STATES that it does NOT apply to illegal aliens. Republicans are LYING about the reasons for the shutdown. If the Republicans are in the right about all of this then why are they telling PROVEN, UNDISPUTABLE LIES?

The fact remains: illegal aliens currently receive free medical care in the United States, where they cannot be refused treatment at any emergency room at any time.

Illegal aliens receive emergency Medicaid under a law passed in 1986. "Hospitals can get federal Medicaid funding to reimburse them for emergency services they are required to provide to low-income individuals, regardless of immigration status, which includes undocumented people," Mr Cuello told us.

"Emergency Medicaid is very temporary coverage for the medical services provided at all emergency rooms, often just one service on one day, but not necessarily ongoing health insurance enrollment, like a U.S. citizen can pay for, or receives by qualifying for Medicaid," he added.

I just want to make it very clear that this Trumper's objection is that undocumented people are not refused treatment in emergency rooms.

I am trying to let that sink in. It sounds like PP is not only against the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act that has been law since Ronald Reagan, but the idea of public hospitals are treating immigrants in emergency rooms as well.

PP would have hospitals refuse the undocumented emergency care. Just when I think people can't go any lower...

Yes.

When I hear people advocate for this, I always ask them how they expect -- in detail -- this to play out.

A grandmother looking after a grandchild who goes into a wheezing asthma attack. She doesn't have the insurance card for some reason, say that the mother just dropped her off while going to the store. Now the grandmother either calls an ambulance or rushes the child in her own car to the ER door. What happens?

Do we have security guards holding the door shut while the grandmother is screaming and clawing at it, her grandchild going blue at her feet? DO we let them inside the door so the child doesn't die outside, but at least under a roof?

What about car accidents? They drag you out from a car crash, but your wallet fell out, or is in the pants they cut off to wedge you out, or whatever. You have broken bones, a head bleed, you need surgery. Do the paramedics call it in and be told to leave you to die on the side of the road, since they can't find proof of insurance, or do we have another scene with the guards holding the ER bay doors shut? How exactly does this play out?

Of course there are going to be non-emergency complaints that could, in theory, play out in some way not quite so egregious. But how do the non-emergency cases play out?

And what about borderline emergency cases? Your father, or grandfather, or uncle, or whomever is shoveling snow and falls down. His chest hurts, and he is sweaty. Does the neighbor who finds him wait until the house can be searched to find the insurance card? How exactly does this work, again?

Maybe your dad (in this new world) always keeps his insurance card on him for exactly this reason. What about your nephew at the pool, who hits his head diving off the board? Do you want a lifeguard earching nearby cars before calling an ambulance?

So I’m a new poster, and I’m not steeped in the details, and I accordingly do not have a side though if I were to, but just as a value judgment, I’d prefer a scenario where undocumented immigrants get some reasonable quantum of healthcare even on the public dime to one where being undocumented means no medical care. With that wind-up, let me ask: are you sure that this is how it works? When I was a kid, my parents did not always have health insurance, and they went to the ER on more than one occasion. My recollection is that they were admitted and that we had to apply for what I believe the hospital called “charity” if we were to get out of paying a massive bill that we couldn’t afford. That fact, coupled with some awareness that hospitals have an ethical duty to stabilize all comers without regard to ability to pay, makes me doubt that the scenario you’ve described is plausible, but I’m open to contradiction if you actually know what you’re talking about (and maybe you do!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup. Proven in black and white - when you scroll down from what @GOP highlighted in yellow it CLEARLY STATES that it does NOT apply to illegal aliens. Republicans are LYING about the reasons for the shutdown. If the Republicans are in the right about all of this then why are they telling PROVEN, UNDISPUTABLE LIES?

The fact remains: illegal aliens currently receive free medical care in the United States, where they cannot be refused treatment at any emergency room at any time.

Illegal aliens receive emergency Medicaid under a law passed in 1986. "Hospitals can get federal Medicaid funding to reimburse them for emergency services they are required to provide to low-income individuals, regardless of immigration status, which includes undocumented people," Mr Cuello told us.

"Emergency Medicaid is very temporary coverage for the medical services provided at all emergency rooms, often just one service on one day, but not necessarily ongoing health insurance enrollment, like a U.S. citizen can pay for, or receives by qualifying for Medicaid," he added.

I just want to make it very clear that this Trumper's objection is that undocumented people are not refused treatment in emergency rooms.

I am trying to let that sink in. It sounds like PP is not only against the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act that has been law since Ronald Reagan, but the idea of public hospitals are treating immigrants in emergency rooms as well.

PP would have hospitals refuse the undocumented emergency care. Just when I think people can't go any lower...

Yes.

When I hear people advocate for this, I always ask them how they expect -- in detail -- this to play out.

A grandmother looking after a grandchild who goes into a wheezing asthma attack. She doesn't have the insurance card for some reason, say that the mother just dropped her off while going to the store. Now the grandmother either calls an ambulance or rushes the child in her own car to the ER door. What happens?

Do we have security guards holding the door shut while the grandmother is screaming and clawing at it, her grandchild going blue at her feet? DO we let them inside the door so the child doesn't die outside, but at least under a roof?

What about car accidents? They drag you out from a car crash, but your wallet fell out, or is in the pants they cut off to wedge you out, or whatever. You have broken bones, a head bleed, you need surgery. Do the paramedics call it in and be told to leave you to die on the side of the road, since they can't find proof of insurance, or do we have another scene with the guards holding the ER bay doors shut? How exactly does this play out?

Of course there are going to be non-emergency complaints that could, in theory, play out in some way not quite so egregious. But how do the non-emergency cases play out?

And what about borderline emergency cases? Your father, or grandfather, or uncle, or whomever is shoveling snow and falls down. His chest hurts, and he is sweaty. Does the neighbor who finds him wait until the house can be searched to find the insurance card? How exactly does this work, again?

Maybe your dad (in this new world) always keeps his insurance card on him for exactly this reason. What about your nephew at the pool, who hits his head diving off the board? Do you want a lifeguard earching nearby cars before calling an ambulance?

One doesn't need to be a citizen to buy insurance. So having an insurance card doesn't mean the ER should, or should not, treat the patient in this scenario.