Equitable/reasonable division of care among siblings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a rational person and I agree with them

We've had 4 elders pass. There are many ways to help, not always the way other's dictate.

It’s not dictating when you ask for help and they always say they are too busy.

It’s not dictating when all expectations are out the window and have essentially devolved to “Gee, I wonder if they will bother to call or visit this month/this summer?”

Yet for whatever reason the unhelpful one and their spouse will be the first to text as a holiday approaches to ask what the plans are. Not because they ever want to host or offer to help, but simply so they can waltz in and enjoy the magical merriment orchestrated by the helpful siblings.

Anyone else have a sibling like this? It’s baffling how clueless some people can be.

Look, it has become so obvious that you and sibling #1 do not care for the other sibling, and pretty sure other sibling knows. You kind of sound like bullies.

Yep. It took me a long time to figure out that I’d been bullied by a sibling who was very personable and charming with outsiders. I always thought she was right and I was wrong. Then the scales fell from my eyes, and so much made sense. And she did not like that I was no longer willing to play her game. Oh, well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a rational person and I agree with them

We've had 4 elders pass. There are many ways to help, not always the way other's dictate.

It’s not dictating when you ask for help and they always say they are too busy.

It’s not dictating when all expectations are out the window and have essentially devolved to “Gee, I wonder if they will bother to call or visit this month/this summer?”

Yet for whatever reason the unhelpful one and their spouse will be the first to text as a holiday approaches to ask what the plans are. Not because they ever want to host or offer to help, but simply so they can waltz in and enjoy the magical merriment orchestrated by the helpful siblings.

Anyone else have a sibling like this? It’s baffling how clueless some people can be.

Look, it has become so obvious that you and sibling #1 do not care for the other sibling, and pretty sure other sibling knows. You kind of sound like bullies.

Hardly.

ICYMI: venting on dcum precisely to avoid losing it with a sibling who is blissfully unaware we are annoyed does not equate to bullying. Quite the opposite.

I suspect you skew unhelpful IRL.

Perhaps this thread will serve as a gentle nudge to try harder…or even just a tiny bit.

Oh, I suspect your sibling is very, very aware of your thought process in general. That is why you are seeing so little of them.

And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is more going on behind the scenes than you realize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a rational person and I agree with them

We've had 4 elders pass. There are many ways to help, not always the way other's dictate.

It’s not dictating when you ask for help and they always say they are too busy.

It’s not dictating when all expectations are out the window and have essentially devolved to “Gee, I wonder if they will bother to call or visit this month/this summer?”

Yet for whatever reason the unhelpful one and their spouse will be the first to text as a holiday approaches to ask what the plans are. Not because they ever want to host or offer to help, but simply so they can waltz in and enjoy the magical merriment orchestrated by the helpful siblings.

Anyone else have a sibling like this? It’s baffling how clueless some people can be.

Look, it has become so obvious that you and sibling #1 do not care for the other sibling, and pretty sure other sibling knows. You kind of sound like bullies.

Hardly.

ICYMI: venting on dcum precisely to avoid losing it with a sibling who is blissfully unaware we are annoyed does not equate to bullying. Quite the opposite.

I suspect you skew unhelpful IRL.

Perhaps this thread will serve as a gentle nudge to try harder…or even just a tiny bit.

Oh, I suspect your sibling is very, very aware of your thought process in general. That is why you are seeing so little of them.

And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is more going on behind the scenes than you realize.

Nope.

They’re just selfish and lazy.

Even their spouse thinks so.

[Anonymous]

Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

Again, you clearly have longstanding resentments against this sibling. And this sibling is tired of dealing with your “my way or the highway” attitude and is now doing things their own way.

It also appears that you think that your sibling and/or their spouse may read DCUM and you are hoping that they read your very specific posts and that they get your message without you having to actually talk to them yourself. If they are reading this, they will only see much of what they probably already know about you and how you operate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

Again, you clearly have longstanding resentments against this sibling. And this sibling is tired of dealing with your “my way or the highway” attitude and is now doing things their own way.

It also appears that you think that your sibling and/or their spouse may read DCUM and you are hoping that they read your very specific posts and that they get your message without you having to actually talk to them yourself. If they are reading this, they will only see much of what they probably already know about you and how you operate.

I am sure my sibling, who has no children and doesn’t live anywhere near DC, is not reading this, but I do think that it would be nice if they showed any interest in our parent, which in my “my way or the highway” terms means calling regularly and visiting occasionally without making it clear they’d rather be anywhere else.

There is no statement you can make, from tactful to direct, that produces this result. It’s remarkable to me that you live in a world where everyone steps up appropriately (which, yes, in some cases would be “not at all) for their parents. Must be nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

Again, you clearly have longstanding resentments against this sibling. And this sibling is tired of dealing with your “my way or the highway” attitude and is now doing things their own way.

It also appears that you think that your sibling and/or their spouse may read DCUM and you are hoping that they read your very specific posts and that they get your message without you having to actually talk to them yourself. If they are reading this, they will only see much of what they probably already know about you and how you operate.

I am sure my sibling, who has no children and doesn’t live anywhere near DC, is not reading this, but I do think that it would be nice if they showed any interest in our parent, which in my “my way or the highway” terms means calling regularly and visiting occasionally without making it clear they’d rather be anywhere else.

There is no statement you can make, from tactful to direct, that produces this result. It’s remarkable to me that you live in a world where everyone steps up appropriately (which, yes, in some cases would be “not at all) for their parents. Must be nice.

Are you the OP? You seem to be responding as if you are the OP, but the OP's "unhelpful" sibling has children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

Again, you clearly have longstanding resentments against this sibling. And this sibling is tired of dealing with your “my way or the highway” attitude and is now doing things their own way.

It also appears that you think that your sibling and/or their spouse may read DCUM and you are hoping that they read your very specific posts and that they get your message without you having to actually talk to them yourself. If they are reading this, they will only see much of what they probably already know about you and how you operate.

I am sure my sibling, who has no children and doesn’t live anywhere near DC, is not reading this, but I do think that it would be nice if they showed any interest in our parent, which in my “my way or the highway” terms means calling regularly and visiting occasionally without making it clear they’d rather be anywhere else.

There is no statement you can make, from tactful to direct, that produces this result. It’s remarkable to me that you live in a world where everyone steps up appropriately (which, yes, in some cases would be “not at all) for their parents. Must be nice.

Are you the OP? You seem to be responding as if you are the OP, but the OP's "unhelpful" sibling has children.

Not the op

Apparently there are many people with unhelpful siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't you say this previously?

"In fact, the unhelpful one was universally adored. The fun one. Spoiled. But our parents and all the siblings loved/love them."

A lot of people who were allowed to get away with all sorts of crap when they were younger, because youth & charm will do that, can't see why that has to change just because they're older and have some responsibilities now. The guy who goes golfing while his wife handles getting kids to sports practice is often the guy who can't be bothered to have dinner with his lonely parents occasionally, or if he shows up to a family event, he's the last one to arrive and the first to go, and all he talks about is himself.

The people who insist you can hire people to do everything? I mean, sort of, and I'm all for throwing money at problems if you can afford it and that will make the money go away. But you still need to be talking to your elderly relatives, both because they need the interaction and because it's how you find out what else they want and need.

Siblings don't all need to do the same amount or the same things. Lives are different, skills are different. But if every time someone says, "Mom needs X," you Homer Simpson it into the shrubbery; if one sibling says, "Dad wants Y" and you cannot imagine how they know that, you are doing less than the minimum. And could you stop telling us that you've "learned" something that one of us told you weeks ago? Could you stop congratulating yourself on how you talked Mom out of doing something we told you weeks ago she needs to do? You don't get to take the path of blissful (for you, not your parent) ignorance and then cast yourself as the superhero, especially when every one of your choices is clearly intended to save yourself effort and preserve your inheritance.

Again, you clearly have longstanding resentments against this sibling. And this sibling is tired of dealing with your “my way or the highway” attitude and is now doing things their own way.

It also appears that you think that your sibling and/or their spouse may read DCUM and you are hoping that they read your very specific posts and that they get your message without you having to actually talk to them yourself. If they are reading this, they will only see much of what they probably already know about you and how you operate.

I am sure my sibling, who has no children and doesn’t live anywhere near DC, is not reading this, but I do think that it would be nice if they showed any interest in our parent, which in my “my way or the highway” terms means calling regularly and visiting occasionally without making it clear they’d rather be anywhere else.

There is no statement you can make, from tactful to direct, that produces this result. It’s remarkable to me that you live in a world where everyone steps up appropriately (which, yes, in some cases would be “not at all) for their parents. Must be nice.

Are you the OP? You seem to be responding as if you are the OP, but the OP's "unhelpful" sibling has children.

Not the op

Apparently there are many people with unhelpful siblings.

And we're all controlling and unreasonable!

[Anonymous]

Look, I'm also not sure if you're the OP or not, but it has gotten ridiculous. Adult children have their own lives, which don't revolve around mommy. If mommy needs lots of help and socializing, you need to hire it out, the adult children cannot be anyone's only outlet. Loneliness is normal, we all have to find our own things to do and our own entertainment, and never has it been easier than now. Adult children don't call and visit regularly because they're busy with jobs and families, and there might be long-standing relationship problems. Elderly need to have their own group of peers to socialize with. At the end of the day, you cannot force anyone to do what you want. Your siblings are adults and decide for themselves, and this decision may be different from yours, and you'll just have to live with it. I never remember my own grandparents expecting everybody to sit with them or eat with them because they're bored, they found their own things to do until the very end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, I'm also not sure if you're the OP or not, but it has gotten ridiculous. Adult children have their own lives, which don't revolve around mommy. If mommy needs lots of help and socializing, you need to hire it out, the adult children cannot be anyone's only outlet. Loneliness is normal, we all have to find our own things to do and our own entertainment, and never has it been easier than now. Adult children don't call and visit regularly because they're busy with jobs and families, and there might be long-standing relationship problems. Elderly need to have their own group of peers to socialize with. At the end of the day, you cannot force anyone to do what you want. Your siblings are adults and decide for themselves, and this decision may be different from yours, and you'll just have to live with it. I never remember my own grandparents expecting everybody to sit with them or eat with them because they're bored, they found their own things to do until the very end.

Not OP and I agree to some extent, but the reality is people live for so long they rarely can live an autonomous life until the end. The best scenario I have seen was my great aunt who was 90+, lived at home, in good health. She still needed help to take her to doctor appointments and shopping. So unless you can throw money at it, someone has to be involved to some extent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, I'm also not sure if you're the OP or not, but it has gotten ridiculous. Adult children have their own lives, which don't revolve around mommy. If mommy needs lots of help and socializing, you need to hire it out, the adult children cannot be anyone's only outlet. Loneliness is normal, we all have to find our own things to do and our own entertainment, and never has it been easier than now. Adult children don't call and visit regularly because they're busy with jobs and families, and there might be long-standing relationship problems. Elderly need to have their own group of peers to socialize with. At the end of the day, you cannot force anyone to do what you want. Your siblings are adults and decide for themselves, and this decision may be different from yours, and you'll just have to live with it. I never remember my own grandparents expecting everybody to sit with them or eat with them because they're bored, they found their own things to do until the very end.

So what’s reasonable?

Is it reasonable to only pop in once every three months or so for a 20 minute visit…even when you live in the same town?

Assuming you think a quarterly visit is reasonable, is it reasonable to suggest you don’t show up empty handed? Perhaps you could pick up groceries or even simply stop by cvs to pick up medication on your way?

Or if you can’t pick up the meds (maybe because you don’t want to pay for the modest copay), what if your sibling suggests you visit once every three months around a meal time so you can bring a meal or observe whether she eats?

This is what we are talking about: not a big lift.

I’m so glad I’m not a jerk. I’m so glad at least most of my siblings are helpful. I’m so glad I’m modeling decent caregiving behavior for my own kids (who enjoy visiting their grandmother).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I'm also not sure if you're the OP or not, but it has gotten ridiculous. Adult children have their own lives, which don't revolve around mommy. If mommy needs lots of help and socializing, you need to hire it out, the adult children cannot be anyone's only outlet. Loneliness is normal, we all have to find our own things to do and our own entertainment, and never has it been easier than now. Adult children don't call and visit regularly because they're busy with jobs and families, and there might be long-standing relationship problems. Elderly need to have their own group of peers to socialize with. At the end of the day, you cannot force anyone to do what you want. Your siblings are adults and decide for themselves, and this decision may be different from yours, and you'll just have to live with it. I never remember my own grandparents expecting everybody to sit with them or eat with them because they're bored, they found their own things to do until the very end.

Not OP and I agree to some extent, but the reality is people live for so long they rarely can live an autonomous life until the end. The best scenario I have seen was my great aunt who was 90+, lived at home, in good health. She still needed help to take her to doctor appointments and shopping. So unless you can throw money at it, someone has to be involved to some extent.

Apparently we are supposed to rely on Ubers or nonexistent cabs for elderly grandmas.

ICYMI: broadcasting to strangers that an elderly woman lives alone is risky. So is sending a wobbly lady to the doctor alone. Ditto for not being present at medical appointments when the patient is forgetful.

SMDH

[Anonymous]

I already said, I don't know your sibling's schedule, there is no law how often one has to visit. If he wanted to come more often, he would. I don't know for example if your mom helped him out with childrearing or anything at all and if he feels indebted. If he is a jerk as you say, I'm afraid that's on your mom's parenting. Again, as you say, I guess she didn't model caregiving behavior herself perhaps. But I agree, thanks to medical advancement, the elderly live long and therefore once they're not independent any more, they should not be living alone. So you need to figure out the next steps. Whether it's having her live with one of you or hire help. You'll not avoid throwing money at it once one is helpless to such extent that they are unable to do basic daily tasks, unless you intend to give up your own life. Perhaps your sibling has figured this all out, because you sure haven't, and that's all there is to it.