H claims that I abuse him emotionally, whereas I think it is the other way around

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read this whole thread, OP, but I read your opening entry and I have two thoughts.
1–your DH does not feel appreciated by you, so his insecurity leads him to point out his financial contribution as the “heavy lift” in the relationship. Just as *your* heavy lift is all the organizational details of the household and of your daughter’s appointments and happenings. You didn’t really say what YOU have said that leads into the “you are expendable…”comment. Does he mean financially he’d rather have you focusing on household things than monetary contributions? Or does he actually mean YOU??

2–in the example scenarios you gave, he is reacting to you as though you are someone he does not LIKE. Forget love. He is actually dripping with disdain in how he responds to you and speaks to you. (Obviously based on your summary)
But this likely didn’t come out of nowhere.
Because it also sounds like you continue to “push his buttons” to exacerbate every situation—whether you mean to or not. And you seem yo always have a very good reason for correcting him or interjecting with your opinion that contradicts his statement—but the fact is that he is not in a mindset to hear the “very good reason” because he is at a point where he feels that all hears from you is criticism, nitpicking, and contradiction to every thought or idea or opinion or action that he has. Literally. That is how he is internalizing each interaction you detailed.
You gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for your actions and statements that frankly makes YOU sound a little gaslight-y. Like any normal person would react negatively to someone pushing their hand away from the microwave.
If he constantly feel like you are someone who acts like she thinks she knows it all—then og course he’s going to get irritated when you —yet again—tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he makes the “ITD be a good idea to get there early and meet the other parents” suggestion.
OP—you may be right about that. But if you complain that he isn’t involved in DD’s activities or household things and then he makes an attempt only to be corrected by you about how he doesn’t know anything about that….then where is the incentive for him to engage?

I think bottom line is that you are genuinely not in touch with how you have been engaging with him and this has all built up inside him until he just can’t anymore.

You need to take some ownership and just sit down with him and tell him you realized that he is perceiving your comments as criticism and you don’t want to have that kind of relationship.
He just wants you to value him and feel proud of him but to him it feels like you are always correcting him. Tell him you are going ti be more mindful if that and then start treating him like someone you value and admire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

The parenting app thing is genius. What a wonderful person came up with that! Lots of people being mean to OP about wanting to stay in the house but it may not be about the luxury but the neighborhood. I spent a lot of time looking and there just was not a house in our neighborhood for sale. The kids would have to move schools and would lose all the friends that they walk/bike to, at an age when that is really tough. That’s why I decided to stay—I don’t give a sh-t about the material stuff. My spouse works so much that he isn’t that much of a factor and I just don’t let him get me upset or engaged. Once I stopped engaging with his nonsense it decreased a lot. He is the kind of person that feels like “if you send one of my guys to the hospital, I sent three of your guys to the morgue” so it’s just not worth any sort of disagreement with him. He has a lot of stuff he takes care of, and I don’t engage on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're teaching your daughter to be a doormat. When she becomes a teenager with her own opinions, DH will treat her like crap too. You can force her to live in those conditions or put solutions into effect. Communication will be hard, but at least you'll have your own space.

She’s actually teaching he daughter how to dismiss her future husband and make him feel two feet tall. Her DH is just fed up with her picking apart everything he does.
Guys aren’t really that complicated, people.
They want sex, respect, and peace—not necessarily in that order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're teaching your daughter to be a doormat. When she becomes a teenager with her own opinions, DH will treat her like crap too. You can force her to live in those conditions or put solutions into effect. Communication will be hard, but at least you'll have your own space.

She’s actually teaching he daughter how to dismiss her future husband and make him feel two feet tall. Her DH is just fed up with her picking apart everything he does.
Guys aren’t really that complicated, people.
They want sex, respect, and peace—not necessarily in that order.


+1
Guarantee if she were to treat him as someone she loved and admired, he would not be tired of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

The parenting app thing is genius. What a wonderful person came up with that! Lots of people being mean to OP about wanting to stay in the house but it may not be about the luxury but the neighborhood. I spent a lot of time looking and there just was not a house in our neighborhood for sale. The kids would have to move schools and would lose all the friends that they walk/bike to, at an age when that is really tough. That’s why I decided to stay—I don’t give a sh-t about the material stuff. My spouse works so much that he isn’t that much of a factor and I just don’t let him get me upset or engaged. Once I stopped engaging with his nonsense it decreased a Lott. He is the kind of person that feels like “if you send one of my guys to the hospital, I sent three of your guys to the morgue” so it’s just not worth any sort of disagreement with him. He has a lot of stuff he takes care of, and I don’t engage on that.

This doesn’t surprise me at all.
Men just want to be loved and appreciated by their wives (whom they married largely because they felt they found a woman who loved and appreciates him!)……but if it is no longer the case that she loves or appreciates him as she once did, then the next best thing is just to be left alone. Unless he’s a total sociopath, men just dint typically pick fights—as a general rule.

[Anonymous]

This one seems like a mix. In part the way you describe him makes him seem obnoxious at least but then you also seem to be obnoxious - physically knocking his hand away from the microwave and going into the kitchen and getting into an argument with him about dairy after he asked you to stay out and let him cook with your daughter. It’s hard to know if really it’s one of you that the problem or if you are both instigating and pushing each others buttons.

Would need to be a fly on the wall or hear other perspectives to know who is abusing who or if it’s reciprocal abuse.

[Anonymous]

OP also claims her husband gaslights her when she leaves a pot boiling on the stove and walks away to take a phone call... Somehow that is his fault that OP is an airhead.

[Anonymous]

Divorce him, he is an arsehole who is probably cheating.
You earn a lot of money as is, and stop staying in an abusive marriage bcs you like the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread, OP, but I read your opening entry and I have two thoughts.
1–your DH does not feel appreciated by you, so his insecurity leads him to point out his financial contribution as the “heavy lift” in the relationship. Just as *your* heavy lift is all the organizational details of the household and of your daughter’s appointments and happenings. You didn’t really say what YOU have said that leads into the “you are expendable…”comment. Does he mean financially he’d rather have you focusing on household things than monetary contributions? Or does he actually mean YOU??

2–in the example scenarios you gave, he is reacting to you as though you are someone he does not LIKE. Forget love. He is actually dripping with disdain in how he responds to you and speaks to you. (Obviously based on your summary)
But this likely didn’t come out of nowhere.
Because it also sounds like you continue to “push his buttons” to exacerbate every situation—whether you mean to or not. And you seem yo always have a very good reason for correcting him or interjecting with your opinion that contradicts his statement—but the fact is that he is not in a mindset to hear the “very good reason” because he is at a point where he feels that all hears from you is criticism, nitpicking, and contradiction to every thought or idea or opinion or action that he has. Literally. That is how he is internalizing each interaction you detailed.
You gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for your actions and statements that frankly makes YOU sound a little gaslight-y. Like any normal person would react negatively to someone pushing their hand away from the microwave.
If he constantly feel like you are someone who acts like she thinks she knows it all—then og course he’s going to get irritated when you —yet again—tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he makes the “ITD be a good idea to get there early and meet the other parents” suggestion.
OP—you may be right about that. But if you complain that he isn’t involved in DD’s activities or household things and then he makes an attempt only to be corrected by you about how he doesn’t know anything about that….then where is the incentive for him to engage?

I think bottom line is that you are genuinely not in touch with how you have been engaging with him and this has all built up inside him until he just can’t anymore.

You need to take some ownership and just sit down with him and tell him you realized that he is perceiving your comments as criticism and you don’t want to have that kind of relationship.
He just wants you to value him and feel proud of him but to him it feels like you are always correcting him. Tell him you are going ti be more mindful if that and then start treating him like someone you value and admire.

OP. Thanks for your input, this is an interesting perspective. I agree, in an earlier phase I would have made (and did in fact make) an effort to show more appreciation. The problem is, however, that he lacks basic life skills, so it is hard to keep up the admiring and respectful attitude. The latest example is that after more than two years of having installed the house alarm system, he seriously thinks that you can circumvent the armed door sensors "if you just open the door very slowly." I am not kidding. All while I had explained to him numerous times before that you can bypass certain sensors and how to do it.

Before people jump on me for this, though: I did NOT criticize him in any way for this statement. I merely told him in a neutral tone that no, the reason why the alarm did not go off was because I had bypassed that particular door sensor.

However, in such circumstances it is hard to "admire and respect" him.

My most stressful memory about this is when DD was 11 months old. We lived in an apartment building. Holding the baby in his arms, he met me at the garage entrance while I was entering through the gate. After my car passed under the raised barrier, he walked right through behind the car. The barrier crashed down into place literally one inch in front of the baby's head. I thought I would have a heart attack. His reaction: "I don't understand why you are so upset, neither I nor the baby were in danger at any time." This is hard to believe, but I am not making it up. One of the most traumatic memories of my life.

I still show him appreciation regarding his work, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

The parenting app thing is genius. What a wonderful person came up with that! Lots of people being mean to OP about wanting to stay in the house but it may not be about the luxury but the neighborhood. I spent a lot of time looking and there just was not a house in our neighborhood for sale. The kids would have to move schools and would lose all the friends that they walk/bike to, at an age when that is really tough. That’s why I decided to stay—I don’t give a sh-t about the material stuff. My spouse works so much that he isn’t that much of a factor and I just don’t let him get me upset or engaged. Once I stopped engaging with his nonsense it decreased a Lott. He is the kind of person that feels like “if you send one of my guys to the hospital, I sent three of your guys to the morgue” so it’s just not worth any sort of disagreement with him. He has a lot of stuff he takes care of, and I don’t engage on that.

This doesn’t surprise me at all.
Men just want to be loved and appreciated by their wives (whom they married largely because they felt they found a woman who loved and appreciates him!)……but if it is no longer the case that she loves or appreciates him as she once did, then the next best thing is just to be left alone. Unless he’s a total sociopath, men just dint typically pick fights—as a general rule.

You’re crazy (or have a limited world experience). I’m a lawyer and I spend all day dealing with men who love picking fights. Did you ever see the college debate teams? Or the boxing teams? There are lots and lots of men who LOVE to pick fights. And also lots and lots of men who can’t deal with any level of disagreement or contradiction. I could give examples but I don’t think you’re in a rational headspace to hear them. But trust me, I spent literally a decade being the sweetness and light wife who did nothing but encourage him, and it did not matter one bit — if something else set him off (like when our thermostat broke and he couldn’t figure out how to fix it, or when someone else got the promotion he wanted, or our kid broke something), it always bounced back on me. Yes, he married me because I was his loving, supportive cheerleader for years and he really wanted/needed that. But eventually it became clear that I could never fill that hole in his soul, and trying to do that would only drag me down into the depths with him. We are both much happier, healthier with disengagement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread, OP, but I read your opening entry and I have two thoughts.
1–your DH does not feel appreciated by you, so his insecurity leads him to point out his financial contribution as the “heavy lift” in the relationship. Just as *your* heavy lift is all the organizational details of the household and of your daughter’s appointments and happenings. You didn’t really say what YOU have said that leads into the “you are expendable…”comment. Does he mean financially he’d rather have you focusing on household things than monetary contributions? Or does he actually mean YOU??

2–in the example scenarios you gave, he is reacting to you as though you are someone he does not LIKE. Forget love. He is actually dripping with disdain in how he responds to you and speaks to you. (Obviously based on your summary)
But this likely didn’t come out of nowhere.
Because it also sounds like you continue to “push his buttons” to exacerbate every situation—whether you mean to or not. And you seem yo always have a very good reason for correcting him or interjecting with your opinion that contradicts his statement—but the fact is that he is not in a mindset to hear the “very good reason” because he is at a point where he feels that all hears from you is criticism, nitpicking, and contradiction to every thought or idea or opinion or action that he has. Literally. That is how he is internalizing each interaction you detailed.
You gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for your actions and statements that frankly makes YOU sound a little gaslight-y. Like any normal person would react negatively to someone pushing their hand away from the microwave.
If he constantly feel like you are someone who acts like she thinks she knows it all—then og course he’s going to get irritated when you —yet again—tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he makes the “ITD be a good idea to get there early and meet the other parents” suggestion.
OP—you may be right about that. But if you complain that he isn’t involved in DD’s activities or household things and then he makes an attempt only to be corrected by you about how he doesn’t know anything about that….then where is the incentive for him to engage?

I think bottom line is that you are genuinely not in touch with how you have been engaging with him and this has all built up inside him until he just can’t anymore.

You need to take some ownership and just sit down with him and tell him you realized that he is perceiving your comments as criticism and you don’t want to have that kind of relationship.
He just wants you to value him and feel proud of him but to him it feels like you are always correcting him. Tell him you are going ti be more mindful if that and then start treating him like someone you value and admire.

Troll playing every which side now.

Lame AND trashy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread, OP, but I read your opening entry and I have two thoughts.
1–your DH does not feel appreciated by you, so his insecurity leads him to point out his financial contribution as the “heavy lift” in the relationship. Just as *your* heavy lift is all the organizational details of the household and of your daughter’s appointments and happenings. You didn’t really say what YOU have said that leads into the “you are expendable…”comment. Does he mean financially he’d rather have you focusing on household things than monetary contributions? Or does he actually mean YOU??

2–in the example scenarios you gave, he is reacting to you as though you are someone he does not LIKE. Forget love. He is actually dripping with disdain in how he responds to you and speaks to you. (Obviously based on your summary)
But this likely didn’t come out of nowhere.
Because it also sounds like you continue to “push his buttons” to exacerbate every situation—whether you mean to or not. And you seem yo always have a very good reason for correcting him or interjecting with your opinion that contradicts his statement—but the fact is that he is not in a mindset to hear the “very good reason” because he is at a point where he feels that all hears from you is criticism, nitpicking, and contradiction to every thought or idea or opinion or action that he has. Literally. That is how he is internalizing each interaction you detailed.
You gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for your actions and statements that frankly makes YOU sound a little gaslight-y. Like any normal person would react negatively to someone pushing their hand away from the microwave.
If he constantly feel like you are someone who acts like she thinks she knows it all—then og course he’s going to get irritated when you —yet again—tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he makes the “ITD be a good idea to get there early and meet the other parents” suggestion.
OP—you may be right about that. But if you complain that he isn’t involved in DD’s activities or household things and then he makes an attempt only to be corrected by you about how he doesn’t know anything about that….then where is the incentive for him to engage?

I think bottom line is that you are genuinely not in touch with how you have been engaging with him and this has all built up inside him until he just can’t anymore.

You need to take some ownership and just sit down with him and tell him you realized that he is perceiving your comments as criticism and you don’t want to have that kind of relationship.
He just wants you to value him and feel proud of him but to him it feels like you are always correcting him. Tell him you are going ti be more mindful if that and then start treating him like someone you value and admire.

OP. Thanks for your input, this is an interesting perspective. I agree, in an earlier phase I would have made (and did in fact make) an effort to show more appreciation. The problem is, however, that he lacks basic life skills, so it is hard to keep up the admiring and respectful attitude. The latest example is that after more than two years of having installed the house alarm system, he seriously thinks that you can circumvent the armed door sensors "if you just open the door very slowly." I am not kidding. All while I had explained to him numerous times before that you can bypass certain sensors and how to do it.

Before people jump on me for this, though: I did NOT criticize him in any way for this statement. I merely told him in a neutral tone that no, the reason why the alarm did not go off was because I had bypassed that particular door sensor.

However, in such circumstances it is hard to "admire and respect" him.

My most stressful memory about this is when DD was 11 months old. We lived in an apartment building. Holding the baby in his arms, he met me at the garage entrance while I was entering through the gate. After my car passed under the raised barrier, he walked right through behind the car. The barrier crashed down into place literally one inch in front of the baby's head. I thought I would have a heart attack. His reaction: "I don't understand why you are so upset, neither I nor the baby were in danger at any time." This is hard to believe, but I am not making it up. One of the most traumatic memories of my life.

I still show him appreciation regarding his work, though.

Sock puppet your way to the trash can Op.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

The parenting app thing is genius. What a wonderful person came up with that! Lots of people being mean to OP about wanting to stay in the house but it may not be about the luxury but the neighborhood. I spent a lot of time looking and there just was not a house in our neighborhood for sale. The kids would have to move schools and would lose all the friends that they walk/bike to, at an age when that is really tough. That’s why I decided to stay—I don’t give a sh-t about the material stuff. My spouse works so much that he isn’t that much of a factor and I just don’t let him get me upset or engaged. Once I stopped engaging with his nonsense it decreased a Lott. He is the kind of person that feels like “if you send one of my guys to the hospital, I sent three of your guys to the morgue” so it’s just not worth any sort of disagreement with him. He has a lot of stuff he takes care of, and I don’t engage on that.

This doesn’t surprise me at all.
Men just want to be loved and appreciated by their wives (whom they married largely because they felt they found a woman who loved and appreciates him!)……but if it is no longer the case that she loves or appreciates him as she once did, then the next best thing is just to be left alone. Unless he’s a total sociopath, men just dint typically pick fights—as a general rule.

No they want to be adored and not have to lift a finger. If you make a request, he lashes out

[Anonymous]

OP, why don't you just post links to the many threads you have started instead of starting a new one every week? It would help save people time.

[Anonymous]

More fun to troll and sock puppet around