H claims that I abuse him emotionally, whereas I think it is the other way around

[Anonymous]

^^btw I read something interesting today that reminded me of how I was so unwilling to leave even though it was so unbearable. It said that your nervous system is always trying to keep you safe and change seems so scary whereas the known seems so safe. That was me. It was really hard taking the leap, but it’s so much better on the other side. I do know that keeping my home was a big part of it but now that I am here I also feel like I could have moved and it would have been ok. Hugs to you, OP.

[Anonymous]

OP you should divorce and get away from your abusive husband, even if both of you have to downsize to smaller houses.

My mother never left - and she wasn’t even staying for a beautiful house.

By the time I was 30 I’d lost all respect for her and most of my affection for her, too. We were estranged by the time she died, many years younger than she should have because my vampire father sucked the life out of her.

Don’t make your daughter see this. It is messing her up. Why don’t women understand that? When you stay with an abuser you are, effectively, abusing your children. Daughters or sons - they both need a better model of self respect and love.

[Anonymous]

You're teaching your daughter to be a doormat. When she becomes a teenager with her own opinions, DH will treat her like crap too. You can force her to live in those conditions or put solutions into effect. Communication will be hard, but at least you'll have your own space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He sounds like my DH, who doesn’t have a clue about a lot of things but is incredibly rigid and defiant when informed of something like the foil situation you described. In our case, we don’t love our house. Everything else is similar down to DH claiming I am “abusive.”

The reality is that DH’s family of origin has a lot of mental health and developmental disorders. He was diagnosed with ADHD and HFA as an adult, although he claims that the many specialists involved in this long diagnostic process are wrong. Anyway, DH perceives any feedback or communication short of silence or a compliment to be mean, angry, argumentative, critical, etc. His parents walked on eggshells around him and his sister as a coping mechanism to manage their issues amidst cultural resistance to diagnosis or support, but unfortunately that resulted in his perception now that anything short of adulation is “abuse”.

I would consider myself to be in a situation that involves emotional abuse, but I don’t have a good plan to get out of this that protects my DD. I’m working on documentation of both DH’s behavior and medical situation in the hopes that it would protect me in a custody soJustin.

Same here.

[Anonymous]

Personally I do not see how divorce would be worse than living w/this person…..this person who probably treats the mud on the ground w/much more respect than his own wife.

But I digress.
Honestly, so you have a beautiful house.
Is that more important than setting a good example of what a loving relationship looks like for your daughter??

I would much rather live in a shack w/someone who loves + respects me (especially in front of my child!) vs. living in my dream home where every wknd I am reminded how badly someone wants to leave me! 😯

Again I digress.

OP, since your husband makes good money you can divorce him and still have a good life w/your daughter.
You can get spousal/child support and likely full custody since he works so much and so far away from your home.

There is no reason why leaving him will be a disadvantage.
Again you will not be able to have your beautiful home > but instead you will have a beautiful life.

Looks like a more than fair trade off if you ask me!
Good luck!!

[Anonymous]

When both of you agreed on a marriage where your DH works 3 hours away and is only present on the weekends, you confirmed what really matters to both of you.

Looks like you are changing your mind now and he is stuck in his ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can’t protect her. He will treat her better if you stay out of it because he will have to and not blame you. People with HFA often blame others to not take accountability themselves. They have rejection sensitivity because of high anxiety. You being part of the equation gives him an excuse to behave badly. When you are out of it, he will have more reason to behave well. If you want what is best for your daughter I think you let them bond in their own way. It won’t be a neurotypical way but it will hopefully be a loving relationship in the way he can achieve that. He probably only wants one weekend day a week or month anyway. Don’t sweat it.

NP

Agree but it’s hard to “not sweat it” when someone with poor judgment takes a kid in a summer vacation. You’ll never get the truth of what happened, how got injured anyways. It’s sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think that dividing the house into two separate units would cut down on a lot if interaction (for example related to the kitchen, as one PP has pointed out). This can easily be accomplished just by putting up a drywall at a staircase. This would allow us to keep the house.

Of course, we would have to come up with a suitable financial arrangement.

You're a skilled troll, but you went just a little too far.

Yeah the four languages and red has of former NT/ND relationship posts. of which there are many!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am reviving this post a year later to give an update and get some feedback on the current situation:

Six weeks ago H agreed to move to the guest apartment himself. I suggested, and he rejected the idea of splitting up days when we would each take turns spending time with our daughter (like "you take care of her Friday afternoons/evenings, Saturday mornings, Sunday afternoons" or any other combination). He says he wants to be able to see our daughter anytime. I told him of course, she could go to the guest apartment at any time, he needs only to text or call her. He doesn't want that either. He shows up at any random time in the main house. As a result, I am stressed out of my mind anytime he is at home (in the guest apartment), knowing that he might come over at any time and say something that hurts me. His latest statements: "Your are just incapable of being content, you have never been content." "There is so much negativity coming from you, I can't be expected to be civil toward you."

I dread it whenever he is at home, even if he is in the guest apartment. I don't know how to get him to come over only at predetermined times (when I would be either in my home office or out of the house).

Our daughter wants me to stay in the main house and not switch with H, because she wants me upstairs with her at night, especially when H is away at work during several nights a week.

Changes from a year ago:
- Now he comes home not only during the weekend, but also during Monday and Thursday nights.
- Now he does not threaten with moving out anymore. On the contrary, he insists on living here and would ideally want me to move out asap.
- I told him that I would be moving out as soon as our daughter goes off to college (still a few years out).

That’s a dumb supposed update of a supposedly true Op.

Divorce him now.

He’s bullying you all the time. Bullying you to move out. Then you show your cards about moving out in a few years. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

[Anonymous]

Did he play football, OP? This should like how my ex husbands CTE began. Rage, volatility, irrational, victim/persecutor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm in a similar situation.

I think detaching is the only thing you can do in the short term. Don't respond. Look up BIFF -- Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. This is how you respond to high conflict people. I suggest that you go out on the weekends or even possibly travel and leave him to care for your child. The more you separate yourself the healthier you will feel. Do not just hang around making yourself passive bait for his abuse.

Longterm steps: therapist for you, consult a lawyer, check out real estate, and slowly dismantle your fears of moving away from this person.

He may be borderline -- this is what my therapist thinks my husband is. People with borderline personality demonize others once they split (only see the bad in you). They have hair trigger tempers and frequent explosions of rage. You are always at fault and they crave being the victim, therefore you are made to be the perpetrator. You are not crazy. He is.

Regarding the practical situation, I am also very attached to our home and unsure of whether I can maintain it without my husband. Yet I am also clear (finally) on the fact that this is very unhealthy and I need to prioritize health. We have been separated for six months and are supposed to be coming back together but I'm really not sure what is going to happen. I have similar worries that he would torment me in divorce also, since the separation has been hell and he has found lots of ways to get at me -- twisting situations to make it my fault, threats, putting the kids in the middle of our conflicts. It's going to be at least ten more years of raising the kids together so that does hold me back from going to an instant divorce. We are supposed to be starting therapy together. I don't know if he will listen to the therapist.

I wish you peace, OP. It's awful and I know because I am there now too. We will get to the other side of this and it will be better.

OP here. Sending you big hugs. Your situation is so similar to mine. I, too, am concerned that a divorce would bring out more nastiness in my husband.

I can only tell you what others on this thread have kindly advised me: do the math with a divorce lawyer, see how much you would be entitled to, including child support. You may be able to keep the house. Best wishes to you!

OP, it’s PP back with an update.

First, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. You’re still walking on eggshells. (Btw that’s a great book — Walking on Eggshells — about being in a relationship with a borderline person. Might be helpful.)

I divorced. I kept the house. It’s been nothing but a positive for me, to be honest. Yes, it’s hard not seeing the kids when they are not here, but I do see them a lot … between my custody days, visits, extracurriculars and other school events, it works out to almost every day each month.

The amount of stress that has gone out of my life is unbelievable. I feel so, so much happier. I have a peaceful space that is no longer full of toxicity and that is just mine. Yes, he is still mentally ill and occasionally harassing. I’m learning to just let go and accept that this is his nature and will not change. I am no longer wishing or expecting him to be rational, not aggressive, not attention seeking etc.

I met someone else and I don’t know if or when it will go somewhere, but that’s been nice. And I also know that if it goes nowhere I’ll still be happy. My life has expanded so much.

I wish the same freedom and happiness for you, OP. I hope you’re able to break free of this and have your life back. Although the hardest thing for me was accepting that this meant losing time with my kids and feeling like I was not always there for them, I feel that I was able to give them a lot of gifts that I wasn’t able to do before. My self-respect was in the trash because of the abuse and gaslighting I tolerated daily. At least this way they see as a full person, getting back to myself, and they’ll know that it’s ok to leave an unhealthy relationship and that you can affirm yourself in a positive way without anyone else. That is important too.

OP here. PP, thanks much for the update! It is so heartening to hear that your life is peaceful again. It gives me hope.

To what extent, if any, are your children being negatively influenced by their father's behavior? Or is he perhaps behaving in a more civil manner when with them than when he was around you?

Did you have to get a new mortgage for the house or were you able to buy him out?

Big hugs, congratulations and all the best!

He is mostly ok with them. I do keep tabs on it as they are old enough to tell me. He is on his best behavior now as I think he is afraid of losing custody or their affection if he acts out. However the kids do see through some of his bribery/ indulgence. Overall they are old enough and have strong enough voices that I believe they will be able to let me know if in a few years they prefer not to be with him.

I think for them having one house that is peaceful and sane and one that may be off at times is still better than one dysfunctional house. I was not able to protect them from his issues when they were here, and he never took it on them to the point that it would have made a definitive case against him being capable of taking some custody. From what I have heard there needs to be proof of physical abuse and neglect for that.

I bought him out. Had a clause in our agreement that I will stay on the old mortgage until rates get low or a certain amount of time passes.

Wishing you the best, OP. Whatever you decide. It’s not easy. I was swimming in the soup of his toxicity for so long that I couldn’t see my way out. I think getting your own physical space and mental space within the house could be a good first step. You need to get stronger and clearer and it will become clear to you that you CAN handle everything without having to be with him. He’s probably gaslit you to the point that you really question yourself.

Take good care!

Btw I also put in our agreement a non harassment clause and a requirement that we do all our communication over a parenting app that prints to a PDF for family court. He is still occasionally nasty, attention seeking, etc but it does cut down a lot of the hostility because he needs to show that he is communicating constructively to keep joint legal custody.

From what you said, if you do all the admin and work around education, extracurriculars etc you may have a case for full legal custody. That would drastically cut down on your communication. I recommend you explore with a lawyer.

OP here. PP, I'm so glad that both the co-parenting and the house situation have worked out for you. Big hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're teaching your daughter to be a doormat. When she becomes a teenager with her own opinions, DH will treat her like crap too. You can force her to live in those conditions or put solutions into effect. Communication will be hard, but at least you'll have your own space.

Agreed. OP would rather her daughter be abused than leave her "beautiful home". Really tragic for this little girl, no parent cares enough to put her first.