ADHD daughter making the entire family late in the morning and I cannot stop losing it on her

[Anonymous]

My post got eaten in the crash, but essentially it said that my own dc with sn was not able to handle the mornings on her own until recently at age 8. At 6, I was dressing her and doing teeth and hair. It wasn’t PDA , she has asd and some delays.

Some of our kids mature in some ways way later than nt kids. No amount of parenting changes that. I’d dial down the conflict OP and just do stuff for her as she is maturing. She can practice the routine on non school days. I’d talk to the doctor about the skin picking, might be anxiety.

[Anonymous]

It sounds very hard and clearly she has some kind of emotional issue about following directions. I can tell that you are doing all you can. My advice would be to try some sort of medication that doesn’t affect appetite. You can get blood testing to find out which would be best. I’d also try to find a parent coach who can come to the house to help you with strategies, and/or a parenting group. I used to have students who had in-home therapy through social services, so I know they exist. I know it’s one more thing to add to your plate.

I also had a student who put his parents through craziness every morning, and when I found out about it, I offered a school incentive for each day that I got a note from home saying he had cooperated in the morning, and it seemed to help. He was also embarrassed that I knew about, I think.

I’m sorry. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For my 6yo ADHD son, we just don't do independence during the school/work week. We tried it and it just caused us to be late and yelling/miserable constantly. Instead, if he won't get out of bed we carry him downstairs to the couch. We then get his clothes and help him dress. Next we stand by the bathroom door making sure he does everything he needs to do. We get him breakfast and sit next to him while he eats. When it's time to go, we get his shoes and help him put them on and then grab his jacket while walking out the door. It stinks but the alternative was exactly what you describe. We practice independence on the weekends and holidays. That's our bandwidth right now.

This is our story as well. We pick ours up out of bed and move her to ours or the couch. She eats simple breakfast every morning like cereal. She is allowed to watch a favorite cartoon while eating. We set a timer in the bathroom and remind every few minutes to finish up. I dress her and then get her out the door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Look, I don’t want a 2 hour morning routine either. But this is how we do it because she is slow with everything and resists it. If we give her shorter amount of time things won’t get done. We give extra time for everything so she can get it done with our help and we have time to work around her resistance and distractability. We are with her every step
Of the routine.

If we don’t give her 10 minutes to poop she won’t poop at school and stool holds. Then is in a foul mood and will tantrum after school and won’t eat until she has a BM but at this point we have to give Miralax because she’s constipated.

If we give her a bar or tiny breakfast in the car it won’t get eaten and she won’t eat or drink all day and will melt down the moment she’s out of school.

Trying to incentivize doesn’t work. The incentive is always expected and she does not connect her behavior to the outcome of the incentive

Trying to create urgency doesn’t work, stresses her out, and causes her to flip out and get stressed out and scream at us.

Forcing doesn’t work because she fights us or just tries to
Make it go more slowly. Refusing to stop moving for getting hair brushed, fighting me getting her pajamas off.

No matter what we do we run up against her behavior issues. Even her therapist has said she’s kind of at a loss.

OP, I think you are a little defensive and rationalizing your current formula which isn't working for you. Two hours is really long in the morning, even for adults. It's fine to give her 10 minutes in the bathroom in the morning. Keep that but let's try a visual timer and constant verbal reminders. Also shrink breakfast time with smaller and faster to eat. What about oatmeal or waffles/pancakes with fruit. She will eat when she is hungry and will not starve herself to death. Pack lunches she will eat even if they are multiple smaller items or a repetitive menu. Also, you must physically dress her. She clearly cannot do it herself so stop setting her up to fail by allowing her to do it. Keep going through the tantrum and don't stop. Don't create urgency or a rewards/consequence scenario. Be matter of fact and stay on a timetable. 1 hour from wake-up to out the door. If you can't get anything to change or work, there may be another problem besides ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is 6. 6 years old. I have one kid with ADHD and one without. I also have ADHD and I can assure you that non-ADHD 6yr olds also struggle with some of these things.

What systems are you putting in place to help her be successful?

What behavioral supports are you providing? Checklist on a dry erase board? Visual timer? Constant routine? Minimizing distractions while she is eating or finding a nook for her to eat away from the chaos if there are lots of people running around, asking about lunches or other questions.

What are you doing to teach her executive functioning skills? You can’t just tell a kid (with or without ADHD) “pack your backpack” or “clean your room”. You literally need to teach them every step of the process - how to do it, what order to do it in, and how to know if it was done correctly.

Why can’t she get up in the morning? What is her bedtime? Can she fall asleep on her own in a reasonable time?

Running around shouting reminders in the morning and expecting her to magically “get it” is not helping and is probably making her feel like crap about herself. Kids do well when they can. It’s on you to create the environment to support her success. Take a hard look in the mirror - are you chaotic, frazzled, and stressed in the morning? Kids with ADHD often have at least one parent with ADHD. She’s 6. You are an adult. Put your own life jacket on first and then he’ll your kid if she’s struggling. She is not making you late. Your family dynamic and morning routine is making you late.

+100 She is not the problem here--she's 6! You're giving her a lot of attention, and inadvertently reinforcing a lot of the behaviors you don't like.

Drop off what you can from the demands. See what you can do the night before. Look seriously into making visual checklists featuring pictures of her doing every step in the process of whatever the task is--making this can be a fun activity for you both. Start with one task to master.

And maybe most importantly--look inside yourself. My anxiety and frustration with my own ADHD behaviors was making my reactions much bigger than they had to be. I was escalating a lot of situations in order to have the control I felt I needed. When I let go of a lot of things by choice, my life got easier. Saying that FWIW.

Check out the ADHD Dude on YouTube, and locally, Dr. Shapiro.

Good luck!

I am the ADHD parent you are replying to and the bolded text nails it. I have a NT spouse and he handles morning routine or any event where we have to leave punctually so much different than I do and that helps me have a different perspective. NT people, especially those without an ADHD kid, might not realize that ADHD people can swing to two wildly different extremes in these situations. I have ADHD and I am never late to anything- ever. But it comes at a cost. I am fixated on being punctual and I go into “waiting mode” for important deadlines where I am scared to start something or do anything not related to the deadline lest I get distracted and miss it. I can also get anxious or short tempered if my plan is disrupted. Other people with ADHD have “time blindness” where they think they have more time than they do and get distracted or lose track of time. It would not surprise me if OP has a rigid plan and an inability to adjust the plan on the fly while the daughter tends towards time blindness and distractibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is 6. 6 years old. I have one kid with ADHD and one without. I also have ADHD and I can assure you that non-ADHD 6yr olds also struggle with some of these things.

What systems are you putting in place to help her be successful?

What behavioral supports are you providing? Checklist on a dry erase board? Visual timer? Constant routine? Minimizing distractions while she is eating or finding a nook for her to eat away from the chaos if there are lots of people running around, asking about lunches or other questions.

What are you doing to teach her executive functioning skills? You can’t just tell a kid (with or without ADHD) “pack your backpack” or “clean your room”. You literally need to teach them every step of the process - how to do it, what order to do it in, and how to know if it was done correctly.

Why can’t she get up in the morning? What is her bedtime? Can she fall asleep on her own in a reasonable time?

Running around shouting reminders in the morning and expecting her to magically “get it” is not helping and is probably making her feel like crap about herself. Kids do well when they can. It’s on you to create the environment to support her success. Take a hard look in the mirror - are you chaotic, frazzled, and stressed in the morning? Kids with ADHD often have at least one parent with ADHD. She’s 6. You are an adult. Put your own life jacket on first and then he’ll your kid if she’s struggling. She is not making you late. Your family dynamic and morning routine is making you late.

+100 She is not the problem here--she's 6! You're giving her a lot of attention, and inadvertently reinforcing a lot of the behaviors you don't like.

Drop off what you can from the demands. See what you can do the night before. Look seriously into making visual checklists featuring pictures of her doing every step in the process of whatever the task is--making this can be a fun activity for you both. Start with one task to master.

And maybe most importantly--look inside yourself. My anxiety and frustration with my own ADHD behaviors was making my reactions much bigger than they had to be. I was escalating a lot of situations in order to have the control I felt I needed. When I let go of a lot of things by choice, my life got easier. Saying that FWIW.

Check out the ADHD Dude on YouTube, and locally, Dr. Shapiro.

Good luck!

I am the ADHD parent you are replying to and the bolded text nails it. I have a NT spouse and he handles morning routine or any event where we have to leave punctually so much different than I do and that helps me have a different perspective. NT people, especially those without an ADHD kid, might not realize that ADHD people can swing to two wildly different extremes in these situations. I have ADHD and I am never late to anything- ever. But it comes at a cost. I am fixated on being punctual and I go into “waiting mode” for important deadlines where I am scared to start something or do anything not related to the deadline lest I get distracted and miss it. I can also get anxious or short tempered if my plan is disrupted. Other people with ADHD have “time blindness” where they think they have more time than they do and get distracted or lose track of time. It would not surprise me if OP has a rigid plan and an inability to adjust the plan on the fly while the daughter tends towards time blindness and distractibility.

This is such a helpful perspective. My 11 yo adhd child definitely seems to ping pong between these extremes, at times (hyper focus on timing and then freak out if any of us are a minute behind her), or totally lose track of time.

[Anonymous]

OP - have you had your child screened for PANS/PANDAS? Our child was diagnosed as "autism-PDA", but much of that resolved after diagnosis and treatment for PANS/PANDAS. (I honestly think that for some kids, PDA is a missed PANS/PANDAS diagnosis - it'll be interesting to see whether they converge in the future.)

What makes me think this:
- extremely difficult behavior, puts you at your wits' end
- normal parenting strategies (incentives, consequences, rules) completely do not work [if it's PANS/PANDAS, you cannot discipline yourself out of a fundamentally medical issue (brain inflammation) driving the behavior]
- super irritable, rage-y
- frequent meltdowns/tantrums, including physical violence
- food restrictions (ARFID-like limitations/"pickiness")
- ADHD/adhd-like behavior
- sleep difficulties

Look out for whether there are any OCD-like behaviors (does not have to be classic OCD like repetitive handwashing), tics, repeated actions or words. In our kid's case, it was initially very subtle because they would fly into panic attacks / meltdowns over seemingly small triggers that were not readily apparent as OCD (but at root they were) because they did not want to give the "real" reason (e.g., that X was causing "contamination") - they knew it didn't make sense and were embarrassed about it. Also look out for dilated pupils (one of the indicators that our kid is in a flare).

Our diagnosis was delayed because doctors expect there to be sudden onset of the OCD aspect - in our case, overall onset was (as far as we can tell) in the preschool years when kids are tantrumy anyway so the meltdowns and OCD behaviors initially blended in and then over time were attributed to general anxiety. In our case, mold seems to have been the underlying trigger.

Resources:
- https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/pandas.html
- https://aspire.care/what-is-pans/definition/
- https://childmind.org/guide/parents-guide-to-pans-and-pandas/
- https://pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandas/

Wishing you good luck - whatever the cause, your child sounds like a challenge and I've been there. Sympathies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

When I first started the journey down the path of life with an ADHD kid I sat down with a therapist and we talked about what life would be like for my kid with ADHD, I was medication resistant because I too had ADHD and didn’t really even know it until my own therapist suggested I might be dealing with my own neuro issues. Turns out I have been all the flu mice but I was able to make and compensate because of a really high IQ. So I lost things and was late to most things but When you are brilliant you learn compensate.

Flash forward ADHD kid who has a high average IQ, who is bright but brilliant and he struggles with so much. It was his therapist who suggested that unlike me he’d probably need to take medication because many things wouldn’t come naturally or easily to him and he struggle to figure basic things out even with help.

Those early years I took care of morning routine, and many times I lost my cool bit reminded myself that I was partly to blame since I had a hard time with routines. I hired help, did PT and OT and got IEP to help my kid until he could better help himself.

I also let some things go. I dressed him at 6. What’s the big deal? The first OT appt. I realized how far behind he was in basic fine motor skills no wonder he struggled to dress himself. I almost cried when he couldn’t balance on one leg in OT. Of course he struggled to put his pants on. Taking him to therapies helped me to see just what how hard things were for him. Much harder than they ever were for me.

Compassion and learning to let things go.

When he was older I put him on medication and he’s so much better able to cope now. Your kid is young so I get not medically treating the ADHD yelling at your kid isn’t going to fix anything, your kid is skin picking, something is clearly not working. My kid self harms like that and I’m at every specialist I can get into to figure out what I need to do to help them. You have a long road ahead of you. Good luck

[Anonymous]

My 6 yr old is expected to do exactly 3 things in the morning:

1) Eat breakfast (fruit and cereal with milk, every morning)
2) Brush teeth
3) Put on the clothes we lay out for (school uniform do same every day)

We brush her hair, make her lunch, pack her bag, put her coat on her, etc.

She can do this routine in 20 minutes— 15 minutes to eat (she’s a very slow eater) and teeth and dressed in 5 if we walk her through that part.

Ideally she sleeps until 7:45 and we leave the house at 8:05 or 8:10. If she gets up early, she gets to linger over breakfast longer which she enjoys. If she sleeps until 8, we have to stay on her to get through the routine so we can leave before 8:30, but that’s okay since we’ll have been up for an hour and be totally done getting ourselves ready so we can focus on her.

[Anonymous]

OP, my childhood sounded similar to yours. I had inattentive ADHD with no help from my family. No doctors, no nothing. I was good a school but it was a struggle to get anything done. I had to stay up late to get anything done and still am like that today. My parents were like yours in that they believed in natural consequences. I had to get a taxi once because my parents refused to drive me in when I missed the bus in high school.

Fast forward to now and I have a 6 year old who may have ADHD (we are in the initial stages). She is difficult, like yours. My one saving grace is that she loves the bus and hates to miss it. I had to make many changes to our routine and only sometimes have to yell. My DD typically sleeps in her clothes, I won't talk to her (she loves to talk and will chatter endlessly if we let her) until she is sitting at the breakfast table. We give her pre made breakfast sandwiches or pre made pancakes, waffles, etc. I am making her lunch while she eats (heating up premade pasta portions, because she is also a picky eater and likes a hot lunch). TV is my DD's currency so if she is dressed and ready before the bus, she gets whatever time left for Prodigy, an online math game. I can do this because we have worked very hard at telling her that she needs to follow our directions about turning off screens or all of them will be taken away. If she doesn't comply with the morning routine she already knows that the TV is gone. She also gets an allowance just for getting dressed and out the door in the morning. She loves getting money! We have gotten to the point where we have added in hair brushing., which she will do herself (I used to do it if we had time). One day I will add in tooth brushing,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of jerks posting here acting like: “Duh OP just do these 85 steps in the same exact order! Be a PARENT!”

You all suck.

OP, she sounds extremely hard. I would start by implementing the sleeping in next days clothes and short hair. Low hanging fruit to make this easier. Prioritize the food and bathroom issues.

They don’t write parenting advice for kids like this. In previous generations, kids like this were beaten into compliance. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but let’s not pretend that standard parenting advice works for kids like this.

Thank you, OP here. I am just at my wits end. I have already cried about this today. I have ADHD. I grew up an absolute disaster. Constantly being screamed at, always misplacing assignments and never able to find anything, late for everything, anxiety, staying up late and never getting enough rest and overworking to compensate for my inability to learn concepts when they were taught in class because I could t process information that quickly. I always ran out of time on tests. Procrastinated on big assignments. Took 3x as long to finish work. I basically turned into a teenage workaholic to overcome myself and stopped getting enough sleep around age 10. My parents never got me a specialist, never talked to my doctor, never got me diagnosed or medication, and never prioritized my health sleep enough to tell my teachers I was doing hours of homework every night and crying each night over it because it was so hard for me. Somehow I still became an honors student but it was at a great cost. I am doing so much more for my DD than was ever done for me and I did not have nearly the same amount of tantrums, I didn’t attack my parents, they didn’t help me break down big tasks or talk to my teachers or make me special meals because I was picky or walk me through every step of the morning. My mom took a tough love parenting class on natural consequences and regularly let me miss the bus when I was running late. I had a panic attack once that school called an ambulance for thinking it was asthma and my mom was angry at me for it. I am trying to hard to be better for my DD and I just feel like nothing works and I have nothing left to give and no life of my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who agrees with the comment above about maybe you are allowing too much time. I looked back at your schedule and you are short of 2 hours for a morning routine. That is a loooong time. We are up and out within the hour. It's true re the urgency - ADHD loves a race.

I WISH this was true. I have tried challenges and races. She gets stressed out. Hey, I bet you can’t get dressed in 20 seconds. I’m gonna turn my back and count to 20 and see if you can do it! She will wail, mommy, no! You’re making it a contest, stop it! This alone can cause tears. When I’m being playful and silly.

She’s inattentive. She lives in her head and is constantly daydreaming. Anything can distract her on a moments notice - a thought or idea, a utensil, a toy, an article of clothing. Even in a simplified environment she finds something to engage with.

I understand we have to find something to motivate her but we can’t. She is like that dog that chases squirrels in Up. She can’t focus long enough to finish tasks to completion unless it’s of her own volition, and being “forced” to go to school is something she hates and doesn’t want to do.

I don’t know how you motivate a child like this.

And yes, we are working with her doctor. She’s been recommending medication for a while but her appetite and eating are already not great and neither is weight gain and she’s very small for her age so we have been putting it off, as well as concerns about interactions with asthma meds she’s already on that cause other behavior issues.

My small daughter is on a non stimulant ADHD medication (Qelbree). We have had no issues with appetite depression. As for interactions, the doctor can determine what will work with the asthma medications. I think it’s time you rethink your opposition to medication, OP.

[Anonymous]

Has she had a full neuropsych screening to make sure you aren’t dealing with more than just ADHD?

[Anonymous]

OP: I have a9 yr old who got so many tardy slips, the principal called. So here's what I did;
1. Sat down with ADHD spouse and had the talk with them about how important this was and they couldn't undermine the getting to school on time thing.
2. We all wake up 15 minutes earlier (and spouse 30 min earlier).
3. Made a schedule. Spouse is supposed to make breakfast but doesn't half the time so I do it all in the am.
4. I ensure they are both out the door on time before waking and dealing with second ADHD kid.
5. I get dressed/ready while #2 is getting ready. Yes, I can do it in 30 min so by the time I need to force him out the door, I'm ready to go.
6. I arrive at work at 9:30.

If I had to be there for 9, I am not sure what I'd do. I guess I'd wake up earlier, get ready earlier and leave ADHD spouse and child to get to second school on time which they wouldn't and it would all fall apart.

Good luck. You've just got to try stuff and unfortunatly, you might have to do more and sleep less.

[Anonymous]

^^ It's been a month and no tardy's and fewer melt downs.

[Anonymous]

tardies...