ADHD daughter making the entire family late in the morning and I cannot stop losing it on her

[Anonymous]

I don't have advice, but can empathize. I was late to work today because my 7yo (who we are awaiting psych eval in April) insisted last minute on bringing a disposable fork named Forky, to whom she had added googly eyes and pipe cleaner arms. She refused to leave the house without it. I didn't have time for a battle or the tantrum that would ensue. She often starts a power struggle as we are trying to leave. (My sweater is the wrong color, I need a different hair style, I'm drawing a picture for my teacher) and it becomes impossible to peacefully leave the house. And, as you know, wrestling an angry 40-50 lb child into the car doesn't work very well. Also, her dad and I are divorced, and he helpfully texted me that if I stop letting her win, she will stop fighting me. Thanks, Captain Obvious. It sounds like you are trying so hard. Many of us are struggling with you. It's not easy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of jerks posting here acting like: “Duh OP just do these 85 steps in the same exact order! Be a PARENT!”

You all suck.

OP, she sounds extremely hard. I would start by implementing the sleeping in next days clothes and short hair. Low hanging fruit to make this easier. Prioritize the food and bathroom issues.

They don’t write parenting advice for kids like this. In previous generations, kids like this were beaten into compliance. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but let’s not pretend that standard parenting advice works for kids like this.

I've also been surprised by the way people are piling on. Parenting is HARD! Parenting a child with differences is HARD! Can we all show some empathy?

She's looking for advice & help, and it's fine to give that, but it can be done without put downs & sarcasm.

OP, my husband and I took the Parent Child Journey course led by Dr. Dan Shapiro (others have mentioned it here in this thread and if you search his name, you'll find tons of people recommending it). The course is pay what you can & there are different options for how to take it (there is a course in person, a go at your own pace course with online videos, and the 3rd option which is what I'd recommend the online videos & a weekly zoom discussion with Dr. Dan & other parent participants to discuss). I cannot say enough positive things about the course and Dr. Dan Shapiro.

https://www.parentchildjourney.com/

We struggle with some of the same things that you mention in your post and while the course hasn't fixed everything, I do feel more confident in having a road map & tools to follow and go back to from the course.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is 6. 6 years old. I have one kid with ADHD and one without. I also have ADHD and I can assure you that non-ADHD 6yr olds also struggle with some of these things.

What systems are you putting in place to help her be successful?

What behavioral supports are you providing? Checklist on a dry erase board? Visual timer? Constant routine? Minimizing distractions while she is eating or finding a nook for her to eat away from the chaos if there are lots of people running around, asking about lunches or other questions.

What are you doing to teach her executive functioning skills? You can’t just tell a kid (with or without ADHD) “pack your backpack” or “clean your room”. You literally need to teach them every step of the process - how to do it, what order to do it in, and how to know if it was done correctly.

Why can’t she get up in the morning? What is her bedtime? Can she fall asleep on her own in a reasonable time?

Running around shouting reminders in the morning and expecting her to magically “get it” is not helping and is probably making her feel like crap about herself. Kids do well when they can. It’s on you to create the environment to support her success. Take a hard look in the mirror - are you chaotic, frazzled, and stressed in the morning? Kids with ADHD often have at least one parent with ADHD. She’s 6. You are an adult. Put your own life jacket on first and then he’ll your kid if she’s struggling. She is not making you late. Your family dynamic and morning routine is making you late.

+100 She is not the problem here--she's 6! You're giving her a lot of attention, and inadvertently reinforcing a lot of the behaviors you don't like.

Drop off what you can from the demands. See what you can do the night before. Look seriously into making visual checklists featuring pictures of her doing every step in the process of whatever the task is--making this can be a fun activity for you both. Start with one task to master.

And maybe most importantly--look inside yourself. My anxiety and frustration with my own ADHD behaviors was making my reactions much bigger than they had to be. I was escalating a lot of situations in order to have the control I felt I needed. When I let go of a lot of things by choice, my life got easier. Saying that FWIW.

Check out the ADHD Dude on YouTube, and locally, Dr. Shapiro.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Yes to putting her to bed with her school clothes on.

My 13 year old does this sometimes on his own. He doesn't have ADHD but has dyslexia and while he's over all pretty good about stuff, he can have some executive function challenges (his sped teacher says it's actually just age appropriate

He's takes a shower right before bed and puts on what he's going to wear for school the next day. I mean, it's just joggers and a long sleeved T. Basically pjs anyway.

[Anonymous]

Op, I am jealous that you don’t have anywhere to be until after 9, and I agree that you need to get ahold of this because soon she’ll start way earlier. I just did it for my very adhd kid at that age. She’ll get it eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD 6 year old DD makes our family late almost every single day. She somehow manages to find distractions every single morning so that she has to constantly be monitored and pushed and forced out the door by her dad and I. It’s been going on for years and I am at my wits end from constantly trying to set us up for success and having her sabotage (however inadvertently) our efforts to be on time.

A typical morning is that she won’t want to get out of bed so that can be a 20 minute fight. If we get her to the table she will daydream, bring toys to the table, get up and play with her brother, or space out and not eat. Since she does not eat lunch at school most days due to extreme distractability her dad and I have to give constant reminders to her - Larla, please eat your fruit. Larla, please eat your eggs. I think we must say these things upwards of 10-20 times. We make her special foods (she’s picky and only eats certain things) and getting her to finish requires both of us pushing her and reminding her dozens of times.

She will then go to the bathroom and get lost - we try to give privacy for pooping but if left alone she’ll skin pick til she bleeds or daydream on the toilet and forget to poop. If we let her get dressed alone (after laying a full outfit on the bed or giving her choices between two items and laying them out) she just won’t. She will bring playing with toys, reading a book, etc. Often after many kind, repeated, reminders we have to help her get dressed herself. We push her to get her hair combed and then escort her to put on shoes and coat she she often gets lost again. She often then will manufacture a crisis as we are getting out the door about some random toy or trinket she “must” have she force us to search the house for it and tear it apart while she gets hysterical and makes us more and more late.

I am so tired of this pattern. Her dad and I try every day to stay calm, but after the 30th gentle reminder or kind word, we find her screwing around and one of us at some point usually loses it and starts yelling. Yelling seems to be the only thing she responds to and I hate that we do it. We have tried talking to her, reasoning with her, sticker charts, teaching her to tell time, humor, singing Daniel Tiger songs/pretends and literally nothing works. We are late, constantly and she doesn’t care. If her dad and I have a meeting or something important and we ask for her help, it makes her behavior worse. She will tell us time doesn’t matter. Eventually she might apologize but the pattern repeats every single day.

What can I do? I feel like a failure as a parent every day.

OP, can you give us an update on how this morning went?

I agree with many of the posters here, and in rereading your initial post, I have bolded the lines that I think are the sum of the problem. Do you not see how you are catering to her bad behavior? And yet - you give us the one thing that does work in ensuring her cooperation - yelling! So, yell more.

I'm serious. You seem overly caught up in the fact that you have to be so nice, like you're dealing with a colleague or neighbor. You are not. You are dealing with an immature child who is limited in her development. She is trying so hard to tell you that she needs a strict routine and she needs for YOU to take charge. So, do it - not by begging and negotiating and pleading with her, but by telling her that this is the way it is, and she needs to get in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

Incentivize! Small prizes for each day, big prize gif end of the week if she can get out the door in time

[Anonymous]

Similar situation with my 7 year old son, only it happens much faster than your schedule. Up at 645 and put the door at 730. We do a combination of all of these suggestions so I dont have much to offer other than commiseration. It is nuts how difficult it is to get out the dang door!!

What works for me is doing things for him for the sake of my sanity, and lowering my expectations! I also try to love on him more other times of the day because I know my annoyance shows every morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

Incentivize! Small prizes for each day, big prize gif end of the week if she can get out the door in time

DP. Fwiw, incentives/rewards/bribes don't work for either of my kids. One just ignores them, the other takes it as a challenge to do the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

Incentivize! Small prizes for each day, big prize gif end of the week if she can get out the door in time

Just an FYI that if the child turns out to have autism of the PDA variety, this will NOT work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point I’m calling troll because you don’t actually seem to want advice. Multiple people have provided multiple ideas and you just come up with excuses why it will never work.

I don't think OP is a troll but I think she thinks she knows best. Listen OP, we've been there, done that. Bought the tshirt. We wear the scars.

Again, I'd be SHOCKED if adhd was the only dx.

That or she's the type who wants to martyr herself so that everyone knows she has the hardest job and the most difficult kid. Even though there are things that would help. But some people don't actually want to make it better, they just want all the sympathy and hair pats.

No need to be nasty to OP. As she said above, the PDA diagnosis fits her to a T. What OP is saying is that she’s already tried a lot of the conventional advice, and it did not work. She’s in the weeds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schedule is ridiculous. Right out the gate you're setting yourself up for failure. She's tired and needs more sleep and you're forcing her out to bed to have a 50 minute breakfast she's not interested in. Whittle all of this down to 45 mins to an hour. Do her hair for her (she's 6 not 16).

Your kid needs medication. This is no way for any of you to live.

She gets upward of 10 hours a day.

so you’re putting her to bed at 9:30? That’s later than my 11 yo goes to bed and she gets up at the same time as your kid. I would move her bedtime up by an hour.

Bedtime is 8:30 but she can take until 9:00 or 9:30 to be asleep. She often picks her skin or just tosses and turns.

This is why people use melatonin. Sleep is vital - for everyone and even more so for kid with atttentional issues and possibly other issues.

(Fwiw, I have a kid with ASD and ADHD-I and a kid with ASD/PDA and ADHD-H and it's hard. But you still have to parent.)

Yes, I know the importance of sleep. We have tried melatonin but it makes her a monster the next day. She’s extremely sensitive to any medications and even 1/4 of the dose makes her loopy and emotional the next day. I will lay with her, have taught her guided relaxation, rub her back, scratch her head, and make her do deep breathing every night to help her fall asleep. Sometimes it happens quickly but often it doesn’t.

Why would you suggest that “I still have to parent,” as though I am not? What about my posts ever suggested that I am not working my tail off to parent? I never get a break, and am constantly trying new and different parenting techniques, seeing specialists and our doctor, etc. I do nothing but parent. Nothing.

Me too, OP. I’m also told it’s my parenting. Then the well-meaning person suggests something that already crashed and burned. Under the direction of a parenting coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember, a child with ADHD is delayed about 3 years in maturity level. She will learn to do everything on her own - but it will be later.

100%. I "dressed" my ADHD daughter while we chatted and took her through the same routine every morning until 4th grade. She began to take over most of the steps and is now completely independent though still might need a gentle reminder to brush her teeth or remember her computer charger.

She is now, an 8th grader, a straight A student, super creative and an overall good kid with a healthy self esteem. And we have a close relationship.

Parents - your young ADHD kids are not trying to torture you or make you late on purpose. Have a little compassion and ignore the type A super moms who have it all wired. You have a different kid - be patient and loving and do what works until your kid is mature enough to take on these habits.

We went to an OT to learn to take pills at that age. Not sure if that’s an option for your family.
As a side note, my oldest son is also ADHD and we shamed him (unintentionally) and nagged him, and guess what - it didn't click for him until 8th grade either. And he still has self esteem issues around organization. (And was an angry teenager) I wish we had been more patient with him.

Thank you. My doctor said not to dress her and that we were enabling her. Honestly I just want to cry. My other kid is SN (entirely other issues) and I just am at the end of my rope with the two of them.

If you're at the end of your rope, forget that doctor. I'm the pp from the first page w/the 6yo boy. His ADHD is clinically severe. He sounds very similar to your daughter actually. We are in a tricky situation in that he will only take a liquid form of ADHD medication so it's not possible to give a "booster" at school so to speak. This means that during the school week we wait until the last possible minute to give him his ADHD medication so that he can get through a school day without issue. It also means that during the week his time with us in the morning and evening is unmedicated. It is HARD. Do what you have to for things to be easier on you during the week-even if that means dressing her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of jerks posting here acting like: “Duh OP just do these 85 steps in the same exact order! Be a PARENT!”

You all suck.

OP, she sounds extremely hard. I would start by implementing the sleeping in next days clothes and short hair. Low hanging fruit to make this easier. Prioritize the food and bathroom issues.

They don’t write parenting advice for kids like this. In previous generations, kids like this were beaten into compliance. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but let’s not pretend that standard parenting advice works for kids like this.

AMEN! A lot of people on this thread seem to have kids with only ADHD. This kiddo is clearly extra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of jerks posting here acting like: “Duh OP just do these 85 steps in the same exact order! Be a PARENT!”

You all suck.

OP, she sounds extremely hard. I would start by implementing the sleeping in next days clothes and short hair. Low hanging fruit to make this easier. Prioritize the food and bathroom issues.

They don’t write parenting advice for kids like this. In previous generations, kids like this were beaten into compliance. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but let’s not pretend that standard parenting advice works for kids like this.

AMEN! A lot of people on this thread seem to have kids with only ADHD. This kiddo is clearly extra.

DP. We got the PDA diagnosis for DC for other reasons but I wonder what would have been different if I had heard this years ago.