ADHD daughter making the entire family late in the morning and I cannot stop losing it on her

[Anonymous]

What happens if she doesn’t poop in the morning? She can poop at school.
That is WAY too long for eating. Can she bring unfinished food in the car?

There is Zero incentive to finish early. If my kids finish their checklists they get to play video games or watch a show on the iPad until it’s time to go. Shoes and coats on while they do it. For a long time they also got a dumdum lollipop or a Hershey kiss every time they got in the car on time.
There is no music, iPad, toys, or anything remotely fun at our house until the checklist is done.

We have toothbrushes and hair brushes in the 1st floor powder room. If they forget something upstairs, a parent will get it. Once they are downstairs and at the table eating, they do not go back upstairs at all. That’s how they get distracted and “lost”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop catering to her adhd, as that’s what you’re doing. You allow her to sleep in. You allow her toys at the table. You allow her to get up from the table. You excuse your constant reminders to eat because teachers aren’t doing their job ID implementing services at lunch (or you just didn’t get those lunch services written into the IEP yet), you make her special foods that she doesn’t eat because oh dear she’s picky and wouldn’t eat otherwise, you allow skin picking rather than finding a way to redirect and insist she must Bm at a certain time, you allow her to have toys during morning routine and in the car.

You have to stop catering to her needs and blaming her bad behavior and your lack of parenting on the adhd. Put a schedule in place for the morning and follow it, no excuses. If she doesn’t get out of bed pick her up and carry her to the bathroom. If she gets up from the table breakfast it’s finished and you move to the next step in the routine. Practice the routine, do it the same way every single time. Do not lose patience, do not even speak to give instructions use gestures or pictures, etc.

And get some parent training because at this rate she’s going to be running your household by age 10.

You are the parents, she’s the child. Act like it.

Telling a child (or anyone) with ADHD to shut up and try harder is not helpful. It also belies a complete misunderstanding of ADHD. I do agree that the adults need to take more responsibility for the situation. Blaming a child who is struggling as if they are being willfully defiant and assuming the child will magically acquire the skills needed to comply if the parent is strict enough is so wrong and so damaging.

Don’t know what you read, but I never said tell the child was willfully being defiant and certainly didn’t say to tell her to shut up and try harder. In fact I said don’t even speak when teaching her the morning routine (or giving directions that require independence as a long-term goal). This reasoning is tri-fold- it promotes independence, keeps prompt dependence from forming, as well as keeping parents from unnecessarily yelling or getting frustrated (since OP said this is a current problem). Just because the child can’t control it now doesn’t mean they can’t learn, but what OP is doing now is clearly not working. There’s nothing magic about it, just lots of patience, time, and hard work. While the child can’t control everything, OP and DH can change their approach. The longer the child is allowed to “run the show” the harder the family dynamics and child’s behavior will be to change. Parent training is definitely in order. Yelling is never the answer unless the child is in immediate danger (running into traffic, fingers in electrical socket, etc).

[Anonymous]

She doesn’t listen to your rules or respect your boundaries because you need to change your parenting. You need to find her currency. Whatever rewards and punishments you are using are not working. Try something else.

Maybe counterintuitively there is too much time in the morning - ADHD people often thrive on urgency. Maybe it needs to be a race in the morning.

Also counterintuitively, consider connection and peaceful parenting. I’ll admit I thought it was dumb and would never work for my kid - but I did Laura Markham’s online class with weekly assignments and it really helped my ADHD kid with his outbursts and meltdowns.

[Anonymous]

Put her to bed in her clean clothes for tomorrow.

Short hair.

Kind bar in the car.

Talk to a dr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens if she doesn’t poop in the morning? She can poop at school.
That is WAY too long for eating. Can she bring unfinished food in the car?

There is Zero incentive to finish early. If my kids finish their checklists they get to play video games or watch a show on the iPad until it’s time to go. Shoes and coats on while they do it. For a long time they also got a dumdum lollipop or a Hershey kiss every time they got in the car on time.
There is no music, iPad, toys, or anything remotely fun at our house until the checklist is done.

We have toothbrushes and hair brushes in the 1st floor powder room. If they forget something upstairs, a parent will get it. Once they are downstairs and at the table eating, they do not go back upstairs at all. That’s how they get distracted and “lost”.

She literally eats nothing at school most days. Often doesn’t drink water. So she will go an entire school day without eating so we serve a massive breakfast to remedy that. Her weight gain is not great. She gets cereal, hot eggs/pancakes, sausage, etc. A very full meal. If we just do cereal or something sugary she will be melting down after school so it’s protein heavy.

We have tried incentives and they don’t work. She then expects it no matter what. She will cry and tantrum if she doesn’t receive it, even if she’s late. If we promise iPad she expects it even if we are 10 minutes late. She then flips out and makes us more late with the 20-30 minute tantrum that follows. We have tried this at least 4-5 times and every time we end up having to sign her in late to school.

At some point, we just cannot keep having her do this to us. We have jobs and we have to get to work.

[Anonymous]

I am a PP who agrees with the comment above about maybe you are allowing too much time. I looked back at your schedule and you are short of 2 hours for a morning routine. That is a loooong time. We are up and out within the hour. It's true re the urgency - ADHD loves a race.

[Anonymous]

Pick one pain point to address and fix that. If it’s toys at the table, then figure out how to remove them from site. If it’s taking too long to poop, add a timer.

Remember her brain is wired for dopamine and she will always choose what gives her the quickest fix. Not what is rational, not even what is necessarily the positive…what is quickest.

So, manage that. Either make element of the routine more interesting or remove anything that is going to compete. If she gets argumentative, then realize that is a dopamine source and disengage.

[Anonymous]

Your expectations are unreasonable for a 6 yo with ADHD. At this stage, you or your spouse should probably get up and get yourselves ready earlier so you can give a dedicated 30-45 minutes to helping her stay on task in the morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

You need to be more consistent. When you say to do something mean it the first time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who agrees with the comment above about maybe you are allowing too much time. I looked back at your schedule and you are short of 2 hours for a morning routine. That is a loooong time. We are up and out within the hour. It's true re the urgency - ADHD loves a race.

I WISH this was true. I have tried challenges and races. She gets stressed out. Hey, I bet you can’t get dressed in 20 seconds. I’m gonna turn my back and count to 20 and see if you can do it! She will wail, mommy, no! You’re making it a contest, stop it! This alone can cause tears. When I’m being playful and silly.

She’s inattentive. She lives in her head and is constantly daydreaming. Anything can distract her on a moments notice - a thought or idea, a utensil, a toy, an article of clothing. Even in a simplified environment she finds something to engage with.

I understand we have to find something to motivate her but we can’t. She is like that dog that chases squirrels in Up. She can’t focus long enough to finish tasks to completion unless it’s of her own volition, and being “forced” to go to school is something she hates and doesn’t want to do.

I don’t know how you motivate a child like this.

And yes, we are working with her doctor. She’s been recommending medication for a while but her appetite and eating are already not great and neither is weight gain and she’s very small for her age so we have been putting it off, as well as concerns about interactions with asthma meds she’s already on that cause other behavior issues.

[Anonymous]

The first thing to do is simplify her morning routine so that it only includes items that are absolutely necessary. Ideally she sleeps in her clothes for the next day but, if not that, they are chosen in put out for her in whatever room is easiest/least distracting. Breakfast should absolutely be eaten in the car.

So her routine might looks like this:
1. Get out of bed and walk into the bathroom
2. Use potty, brush teeth and hair, put on clothes.
3. Walk down a flight of stairs, put on shoes by the front door.
4. Walk out front door, get in car, buckle seat belt, get handed breakfast bar and sippy cup with milk.

Then you need to assign times to each of these tasks. Like 3 minutes for 1 and 15 minutes for 2. Load all of these into a chore/behavior app that gives stars when each of these tasks are done in the allotted time. With rewards associated with numbers of stars.

Then set up a rule that says when she gets her seatbelt buckled before the car clock reads 8:00 (or whatever time) she is immediately handed a Hershey's kiss.

This worked like magic for my ADD 6-year-old DD. Implementing it sounds like a pain but it is WAY easier than what you are currently doing.

[Anonymous]

I think some of this is that she gets used to being late. My kids have ADHD. From the time they were born, I wake up, but their clothes on them immediately, bathroom, and then we walk out the door. There is no time to dawdle. They eat breakfast at daycare and elementary school. If they didn't, they'd be getting a muffin or baked egg quiche in a tupperware to eat on the way. Absolutely everything is packed and laid out the night before. I have 3 kids and we make it out the door in 15 minutes flat, zero whining or yelling at them.

Shockingly when I dropped the rope with my oldest, she knew exactly what to do and is waiting at the door every morning. I think to set good routines, you have to do it for them and then after a while, they just do the routine automatically.

[Anonymous]

She's only 6. How big is she? Put her clothes on her, bring her to the breakfast table, carry her to the car.

And yes, that morning routine is awful. Two hours? You need to shorten it, whether having her sleep later, or adding something to the morning - dog walk? Handwriting practice or instrument practice? Something to keep the morning scheduled and moving forward instead of getting lost in dawdling.

[Anonymous]

I have a 6 year old without ADD. She is slow AF. I wake her up and put her clothes on her while she is still in bed. I put her shoes on her. I brush her hair. I let her eat a waffle in the car on days she is too slow to eat.

Six year olds can't be expected to manage their morning routine like an adult. Especially a six year old with a disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I should have added - we follow the same routine every single day down to about the minute with many cushions of time built into the schedule.

7:30-7:45 wake-up and use the bathroom
7:50-8:40 breakfast (plenty of time for her to focus and eat)
8:40-8:50 bathroom (pooping time and brushing teeth)
8:50-9:00 get dressed and hair combed (clothes are laid out for her)
9:00-9:10 get shoes and socks and coat on (all laid out for her)
9:10-9:15 walk out the door (we get her lunch and backpack, she just has to walk to the car)

We have a visual schedule for her. We have used sand timers and phone timers since she was in preschool. She hates them and throws the sand timers or flips them. Phone timers she ignores or just asks for more time when they run out. Or she gets upset and starts crying “no timer no timer!” When we put it out and it becomes a fight/distraction and not a tool.

She’s in weekly therapy and the therapist is working on listening and following directions.

I am ADHD myself and have had to figure out how to survive with no diagnosis til I was 33 and no medication. My mom gave up on me when I was young and just let me nearly miss the bus most days. She didn’t ever break tasks down or help me move from one activity to the other.

Our mornings are not us just yelling at yer. They are a series of us kindly saying, Larla, it’s time to get out of bed. Larla, please go use the bathroom and wash your hands, Larla,
Please go to your room and take your Pajamas off and put on your clothes. We walk with her through every activity. We give warnings repeatedly for everything - you have 5 minutes left to finish breakfast, you have 2 minutes left for breakfast, ok now breakfast is over and it’s time to go to the bathroom. She is only left alone to poop and if she skin picks when the door is closed the door is then left open, she loses her privacy, and we cover her wounds with bandaids so she can’t pick them.

She doesn’t care about rules. It does not matter if we say, no toys at the the table or in the car. She has no respect for what we tell her to do if it opposes what she wants. If we take away privileges as a punishment she just screams and flips out and has an epic meltdown that can take 20 minutes to get her to reset.

She doesn’t get out of bed often in the mornings because she doesn’t want to. She had an appropriate bedtime. She often takes 30-45 minutes or more to fall asleep. If we give her melatonin she has emotional outbursts the next day so we don’t use it anymore.

We aren’t just some a home parents screaming at our kids. We are providing extensive scaffolding, support, etc. and she just won’t comply. If we move her through activities she doesn’t want to do she hurts is because she’s 45 pounds now and big enough to do damage.

omg this is one hour and 45 min of getting ready in the morning! That is seriously wild. I'd want to throw the timers too. I don't think 6 year olds can follow timers.

Get yourself completely ready. Then go get her. Breakfast is too long and maybe she's just not hungry. Pack a bigger lunch. You need to cut this whole thing down to 30 min tops. Stop arguing with her because it's not working. Just calmly dress her. If she tries to tantrum or hit you, just hold her hands and keep on dressing her. Tantrums mean she gets carried to the car and handed breakfast in her car seat. Epic meltdowns are fine, just keep carrying on with the routine and don't feed the tantrum or acknowledge it.