Son pledging there’s definitely hazing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is mentally tough and willing to take some physical challenges, and is looking for belonging in a group...why not do ROTC? At least then the physical stress will be for a purpose, and your kid will still have a tight group. I can't imagine the psychological manipulation that convinces 18 yr olds that they need to put up with this disgusting abuse for no worthwhile purpose.

+1. This. I am personally not a huge fan of the military but it seems like it provides great opportunities to some kids. If you are going to undergo hazing, let it affect least be for a purpose. And at least somewhat supervised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is mentally tough and willing to take some physical challenges, and is looking for belonging in a group...why not do ROTC? At least then the physical stress will be for a purpose, and your kid will still have a tight group. I can't imagine the psychological manipulation that convinces 18 yr olds that they need to put up with this disgusting abuse for no worthwhile purpose.

+1. This. I am personally not a huge fan of the military but it seems like it provides great opportunities to some kids. If you are going to undergo hazing, let it affect least be for a purpose. And at least somewhat supervised.

^^ Let it at least be…

[Anonymous]

+1. This. I am personally not a huge fan of the military but it seems like it provides great opportunities to some kids. If you are going to undergo hazing, let it affect least be for a purpose. And at least somewhat supervised.


How would you know 🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. Go ahead and name the school and the frat here. It's anonymous after all.. It's not like they are going to sue you. It will end up helping a lot of other kids/parents.

FWIW, my DS (at Michigan) considered a Frat last year but realized most of them are predominantly White and filled with a bunch of racist a-holes. His decision to not keep going was validated when he saw other kids that persevered being abused, crying in the dorms, etc. He's moved on and now has plenty of friends and activities he's part of. The familiar argument about "brothers" after college and 'network' is all BS. Do you really want your son to have racist, a-hole brothers and benefit from their network?

It depends on the school. At Lehigh, the fraternity and sorority networks are strong. I see pix of people 35 years out of school or more.

IU has had so many problems with the frats and sororities that they aggressively go after them so much the parents on the parent's FB pages for the school whine about it all the time. It gave me a very bad opinion of the school that parents were openly angry about the IU admin punishing the greek houses where violence and hazing were happening. It was stunning to see how upset these parents were about the school standing up to their kid's house rule breaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

He was fully prepared for that kind of thing. No this is forced eating of horrible stuff with vomit of 40 guys for hours ensuing that were allowed only the floor to do so then “activities” in the vomit. Literally all day everyone yelling at you you’re a piece of shit, etc. yes stupid stuff like driving he could care less about that. He actually believes one guy is psychotic/sociopath. It’s 7 weeks. Severe, dangerous sleep deprivation. 10 guys left after first night. I want him to quit but has to come from him. We’d wholeheartedly support him and he has the confidence to quit. He is well- liked, has a lot of friends, a girlfriend, has a good future ahead of him

The comment about, if he stays, doing this to others was something we talked about last night. He’s worried about that. He also said he’s “mentally tough” but I reminded him none of us know where are breaking point may be.

OP, I would press hard on him to quit under these circumstances. Reassure him that it doesn't mean that his isn't "mentally tough". Instead, it means that he has respect for himself and others and isn't willing to be treated this way, watch others be treated this way, or treat others this way in future years. Assure him (and get his father to assure him if possible) that dropping out isn't a sign that he isn't a real man - it is a sign that he is a real man.

+1 It isn't mentally tough to be a follower. He's a sheep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. This. I am personally not a huge fan of the military but it seems like it provides great opportunities to some kids. If you are going to undergo hazing, let it affect least be for a purpose. And at least somewhat supervised.

How would you know 🤣

I actually followed some congressional hearings on the subject. Again, I don’t actually know but did look into it when we thought a nephew might join up.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10948/5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s an adult (presumably) and can make his own choices. Land the helicopter.

Nope. It’s called being an adult. If he’s expressing concern to a parent, take it seriously. “Really bad” may involve life/death situations, or it may fall short of that but still carry terrible risks and consequences on various levels. Take it seriously and encourage him to prioritize his safety/health/values by walking away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s an adult (presumably) and can make his own choices. Land the helicopter.

Nope. It’s called being an adult. If he’s expressing concern to a parent, take it seriously. “Really bad” may involve life/death situations, or it may fall short of that but still carry terrible risks and consequences on various levels. Take it seriously and encourage him to prioritize his safety/health/values by walking away.

18 is not a full adult. He is a student and still growing up. I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

He was fully prepared for that kind of thing. No this is forced eating of horrible stuff with vomit of 40 guys for hours ensuing that were allowed only the floor to do so then “activities” in the vomit. Literally all day everyone yelling at you you’re a piece of shit, etc. yes stupid stuff like driving he could care less about that. He actually believes one guy is psychotic/sociopath. It’s 7 weeks. Severe, dangerous sleep deprivation. 10 guys left after first night. I want him to quit but has to come from him. We’d wholeheartedly support him and he has the confidence to quit. He is well- liked, has a lot of friends, a girlfriend, has a good future ahead of him

The comment about, if he stays, doing this to others was something we talked about last night. He’s worried about that. He also said he’s “mentally tough” but I reminded him none of us know where are breaking point may be.

I'm the PP you are responding too. I have had 3 kids pledge and my advice is for him to drop and report full stop. He sounds like a fine young man and there is no reason to stay, an organization that executes their pledge activities like that needs to be shut down. There are plenty of fraternities that do not conduct themselves like that.

This +1 I am the PP which has a DS at UVA in a frat. He actually told me after having gone through pledging, he has less respect for those that did it at other notoriously hard pledging processes because its so easy just to drop. Makes you wonder about a person who could voluntarily go through what OP's son is describing. To the other PP's point though, there are absolutely other fraternities that do not even come close to that type of hazing. The boys just need to find them, ask around and go in eyes wide open with one foot out the door in case they see or are asked to do something they are uncomfortable with.

But UVA has taken a strong stance against hazing. Two frats were terminated in 2022 for hazing at UVA. Google UVA terminates two fraternities, July 2022, I believe.

[Anonymous]

I'm so proud of the schools who go after the bad fraternities and sororities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t understand the appeal of the Greek system when I went to school and I can’t believe it’s still a thing.

Sorry you didn't get a bid, geed.

Never even tried bc again I never saw the appeal. You calling me a geek like that’s some sort of insult does nothing to lessen the a-hole stereotype though.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t date rape prevalent or accepted in many frats? I feel like that’s one thing we even heard about back in the 90s. Has that situation improved?

[Anonymous]

As proud as x-President of Phi Betta Kappa you guys need to grow a pair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t understand the appeal of the Greek system when I went to school and I can’t believe it’s still a thing.

Sorry you didn't get a bid, geed.

Never even tried bc again I never saw the appeal. You calling me a geek like that’s some sort of insult does nothing to lessen the a-hole stereotype though.

They don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t date rape prevalent or accepted in many frats? I feel like that’s one thing we even heard about back in the 90s. Has that situation improved?

We live with rape culture and while the average person ignores or even defends it (see: Andrew state), college students are among the ones raising awareness and fighting back.