Is dual-enrollment a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

+1. Talk to the teacher directly, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

You think it's cool for a teacher, at an IB school, to discourage students from applying to the IB program by calling it a "waste of time" and telling them that it's "stressful"?

Even if she personally believes DE is more advantageous than IB for whatever reason, disparaging the entire program that way in that kind of language is harmful and not good, IMO.

And I don't know what makes you assume she's right other than the fact she's a teacher at MC and an IB high school. I have way more information about said individual and I will tell you, you're making a bad judgement call based on what you know alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is better than dual enrollment for students pursuing challenging/elite 4-year academic university experience and break into elite professions.

DE is better for students who want to get the most commercial value out of school in minimum time and move on to a non-elite non-academic career and start making middle-class money.

Correct. And that's what I corrected my son when he parroted what the teacher said about IB being a waste of time. My for my son, who is trying to get into those more competitive schools, IB is absolutely better. But as you said, for students who want to go to school at the least cost, DE makes way more sense.

But that's not how some in MCPS are positioning it. It's DE over everything else, which is nuts. There are also real social tradeoffs to consider and weigh.

It just sounds like you are trying to rationalize the choices you made for your son. IB is NOT absolutely better for admission to competitive schools. You've never made a single cogent argument on why IB is better than DE or AP.

Is IB coursework more rigurous? In what way, can you compare the syllabus side by side? Do IB students have an edge compared to non-IB students? Generally yes, but you're not comparing apples to apples because of the demographics that IB schools tend to attract.

I'm not trying to rationalize the choice I made for my son. I shared the story to give a real-world example of how MCPS pushes DE on kids, since so many were in disbelief that it happens at all.

It does, and that's an example of it.

[Anonymous]

If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving students to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

You think it's cool for a teacher, at an IB school, to discourage students from applying to the IB program by calling it a "waste of time" and telling them that it's "stressful"?

Even if she personally believes DE is more advantageous than IB for whatever reason, disparaging the entire program that way in that kind of language is harmful and not good, IMO.

And I don't know what makes you assume she's right other than the fact she's a teacher at MC and an IB high school. I have way more information about said individual and I will tell you, you're making a bad judgement call based on what you know alone.

You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. The bright student asked the teacher for advice and she gave her opinion that DE is better than IB. The said student acted on the advice and switched from IB to DE. That was a private conversation that didn’t involve you, and shouldn’t concern you in the slightest. Most likely the teacher gave her honest opinion and the student decided for himself by weighing the pros and cons of each program. You just have a vague idea on what was discussed between the teacher and the other student, but are outraged at that interaction because your own son is now questioning the wisdom of getting into the IB program. I agree that IB can be for some students needlessly stressful and a waste of time if it’s not in line with the student academic needs and goals.

If you’re set on the IB for your son, go for it. The teacher and the other student should be given the benefit of the doubt that they acted ethically. You’re just speculating the student was discouraged from applying to IB. Why is it harmful for the teacher to provide solicited advice? Have you considered that the IB program at the school sucks and there are better options? You do you though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

You think it's cool for a teacher, at an IB school, to discourage students from applying to the IB program by calling it a "waste of time" and telling them that it's "stressful"?

Even if she personally believes DE is more advantageous than IB for whatever reason, disparaging the entire program that way in that kind of language is harmful and not good, IMO.

And I don't know what makes you assume she's right other than the fact she's a teacher at MC and an IB high school. I have way more information about said individual and I will tell you, you're making a bad judgement call based on what you know alone.

You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. The bright student asked the teacher for advice and she gave her opinion that DE is better than IB. The said student acted on the advice and switched from IB to DE. That was a private conversation that didn’t involve you, and shouldn’t concern you in the slightest. Most likely the teacher gave her honest opinion and the student decided for himself by weighing the pros and cons of each program. You just have a vague idea on what was discussed between the teacher and the other student, but are outraged at that interaction because your own son is now questioning the wisdom of getting into the IB program. I agree that IB can be for some students needlessly stressful and a waste of time if it’s not in line with the student academic needs and goals.

If you’re set on the IB for your son, go for it. The teacher and the other student should be given the benefit of the doubt that they acted ethically. You’re just speculating the student was discouraged from applying to IB. Why is it harmful for the teacher to provide solicited advice? Have you considered that the IB program at the school sucks and there are better options? You do you though.

I never said my son was questioning his participation in the IB program. It seems like you're the one with the chip on your shoulder and you're the one who needs to get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

I did DE back in the dark ages when it was an anomaly. I was in the first class of the then new IB program at RM. By senior year I was burnt out and done. I took whatever classes were absolutely required by MCPS and went to MC in the afternoon. After MC, I came back to RM for my typical HS activities. I didn't feel like I missed out the HS experience b/c of MC. I do feel that I missed out a lot b/c of IB. Graduated with 30 credits in gen ed. Most of them transferred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did DE back in the dark ages when it was an anomaly. I was in the first class of the then new IB program at RM. By senior year I was burnt out and done. I took whatever classes were absolutely required by MCPS and went to MC in the afternoon. After MC, I came back to RM for my typical HS activities. I didn't feel like I missed out the HS experience b/c of MC. I do feel that I missed out a lot b/c of IB. Graduated with 30 credits in gen ed. Most of them transferred.

You did DE AND the IB Diploma program simultaneously? That seems like a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

You think it's cool for a teacher, at an IB school, to discourage students from applying to the IB program by calling it a "waste of time" and telling them that it's "stressful"?

Even if she personally believes DE is more advantageous than IB for whatever reason, disparaging the entire program that way in that kind of language is harmful and not good, IMO.

And I don't know what makes you assume she's right other than the fact she's a teacher at MC and an IB high school. I have way more information about said individual and I will tell you, you're making a bad judgement call based on what you know alone.

You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. The bright student asked the teacher for advice and she gave her opinion that DE is better than IB. The said student acted on the advice and switched from IB to DE. That was a private conversation that didn’t involve you, and shouldn’t concern you in the slightest. Most likely the teacher gave her honest opinion and the student decided for himself by weighing the pros and cons of each program. You just have a vague idea on what was discussed between the teacher and the other student, but are outraged at that interaction because your own son is now questioning the wisdom of getting into the IB program. I agree that IB can be for some students needlessly stressful and a waste of time if it’s not in line with the student academic needs and goals.

If you’re set on the IB for your son, go for it. The teacher and the other student should be given the benefit of the doubt that they acted ethically. You’re just speculating the student was discouraged from applying to IB. Why is it harmful for the teacher to provide solicited advice? Have you considered that the IB program at the school sucks and there are better options? You do you though.

I never said my son was questioning his participation in the IB program. It seems like you're the one with the chip on your shoulder and you're the one who needs to get over yourself.

You should stop lying then, because this is what you posted earlier:

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying.

If your son is not questioning the wisdom of enrolling in the IB program, why did you have to point to all the data and research to counteract the teacher narrative? You just dig yourself deeper and deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

You didn't answer my question. If IB is so terrible like you say it is and DE so superior, why is MCPS expanding access to it across the entire school system?

Those two opinions don't compute. On the one hand, you're saying trust the teacher/school system and then on the other hand, you're saying to ignore them and that IB is an empty vessel that's not worth the time or energy as MCPS is literally arguing and investing in expanding access to it.

Which one is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did DE back in the dark ages when it was an anomaly. I was in the first class of the then new IB program at RM. By senior year I was burnt out and done. I took whatever classes were absolutely required by MCPS and went to MC in the afternoon. After MC, I came back to RM for my typical HS activities. I didn't feel like I missed out the HS experience b/c of MC. I do feel that I missed out a lot b/c of IB. Graduated with 30 credits in gen ed. Most of them transferred.

You did DE AND the IB Diploma program simultaneously? That seems like a lot.

Nope, I dropped IB in my senior year. I took the bare min I had to to graduate. I took English 12 (not even honors) and probably 1 or 2 more classes that I don't remember.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...recently, I found out my kid's friend who is super bright and had committed to the IB diploma program for next year, has changed his mind and will now attend the DE program at MC. When I asked why he'd switched, my son said that their teacher, who is also a professor at Montgomery College, told them that IB is a "waste of time" and "stressful." She says they'd be better off getting college credits from the DE program rather than IB.

This is so sad because she teaches IB classes, but clearly, as a Montgomery College professor, she has a vested interest in propping up enrollment numbers at her college. This is what I mean when I say MCPS is PUSHING DE on kids.

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying. MCPS and Montgomery College have an incestuous relationship and they're using each other for mutual benefit, not for the betterment of our kids.

I think the teacher is spot on for DE being better than IB. She teaches both, so she’s more than qualified to make an assessment on the programs. Why don’t you just contact her and ask for advice and see for yourself if her argument holds water instead on relying on second hand information filtered through a bunch of teenagers.

You think it's cool for a teacher, at an IB school, to discourage students from applying to the IB program by calling it a "waste of time" and telling them that it's "stressful"?

Even if she personally believes DE is more advantageous than IB for whatever reason, disparaging the entire program that way in that kind of language is harmful and not good, IMO.

And I don't know what makes you assume she's right other than the fact she's a teacher at MC and an IB high school. I have way more information about said individual and I will tell you, you're making a bad judgement call based on what you know alone.

You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. The bright student asked the teacher for advice and she gave her opinion that DE is better than IB. The said student acted on the advice and switched from IB to DE. That was a private conversation that didn’t involve you, and shouldn’t concern you in the slightest. Most likely the teacher gave her honest opinion and the student decided for himself by weighing the pros and cons of each program. You just have a vague idea on what was discussed between the teacher and the other student, but are outraged at that interaction because your own son is now questioning the wisdom of getting into the IB program. I agree that IB can be for some students needlessly stressful and a waste of time if it’s not in line with the student academic needs and goals.

If you’re set on the IB for your son, go for it. The teacher and the other student should be given the benefit of the doubt that they acted ethically. You’re just speculating the student was discouraged from applying to IB. Why is it harmful for the teacher to provide solicited advice? Have you considered that the IB program at the school sucks and there are better options? You do you though.

I never said my son was questioning his participation in the IB program. It seems like you're the one with the chip on your shoulder and you're the one who needs to get over yourself.

You should stop lying then, because this is what you posted earlier:

I had to point to my son, all of the data and research that shows how distinguished kids who complete the IB program are to counteract the false narrative his teacher was saying.

If your son is not questioning the wisdom of enrolling in the IB program, why did you have to point to all the data and research to counteract the teacher narrative? You just dig yourself deeper and deeper.

I counteracted the false narrative because her assertion that "it's a waste of time" is not true based on the data I was pointing to. I was teaching my son to do his own research and to investigate things for himself and not to rely on the opinion of a teacher who might be biased, or have an invested stake in pushing one option over the other.

It was a lesson in critical thinking.