Is dual-enrollment a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

You didn't answer my question. If IB is so terrible like you say it is and DE so superior, why is MCPS expanding access to it across the entire school system?

Those two opinions don't compute. On the one hand, you're saying trust the teacher/school system and then on the other hand, you're saying to ignore them and that IB is an empty vessel that's not worth the time or energy as MCPS is literally arguing and investing in expanding access to it.

Which one is it?

If you’re asking me why MCPS takes the decisions they take you’re dumber than I thought. You’d fit right in within the IB diploma program lol. Sorry, I had to make this joke!

Are you saying you can’t filter advice for yourself and make your own decision. Within the same organization like a school there can be conflicting points of view. Nobody said IB is worthless and an empty vessel, just that DE has some advantages over IB.

Your only argument for IB is that others said so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

You didn't answer my question. If IB is so terrible like you say it is and DE so superior, why is MCPS expanding access to it across the entire school system?

Those two opinions don't compute. On the one hand, you're saying trust the teacher/school system and then on the other hand, you're saying to ignore them and that IB is an empty vessel that's not worth the time or energy as MCPS is literally arguing and investing in expanding access to it.

Which one is it?

If you’re asking me why MCPS takes the decisions they take you’re dumber than I thought. You’d fit right in within the IB diploma program lol. Sorry, I had to make this joke!

Are you saying you can’t filter advice for yourself and make your own decision. Within the same organization like a school there can be conflicting points of view. Nobody said IB is worthless and an empty vessel, just that DE has some advantages over IB.

Your only argument for IB is that others said so.

I think the moron here is you. I pointed out that you were citing that the teacher/school system is the expert and that I was wrong to contradicting her because she knows best. You then went on a tear about why IB sucks and that DE is in fact way better than IB in the spirit of substantiating the teacher's opinion.

I then pointed out that IF IB is so useless as you claim, and that if we should trust what the experts say (i.e. MCPS as a system and by proxy the curriculum choices it makes), then why is MCPS expanding access to IB if DE is sooooo much more superior and a complete waste of time as you've spent numerous posts reiterating?

I don't know why you're so motivated to push DE, but I'm guessing you're part of the cult who pushes it on kids at school in MCPS. Do you get kickbacks for it? What's your stake in this fight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

You didn't answer my question. If IB is so terrible like you say it is and DE so superior, why is MCPS expanding access to it across the entire school system?

Those two opinions don't compute. On the one hand, you're saying trust the teacher/school system and then on the other hand, you're saying to ignore them and that IB is an empty vessel that's not worth the time or energy as MCPS is literally arguing and investing in expanding access to it.

Which one is it?

If you’re asking me why MCPS takes the decisions they take you’re dumber than I thought. You’d fit right in within the IB diploma program lol. Sorry, I had to make this joke!

Are you saying you can’t filter advice for yourself and make your own decision. Within the same organization like a school there can be conflicting points of view. Nobody said IB is worthless and an empty vessel, just that DE has some advantages over IB.

Your only argument for IB is that others said so.

You're not dismissing IB and calling worthless, but you're calling me dumb and saying my supposed stupidity is evidence of why I would be a good fit the IB Diploma Program.

Your inferiority complex and logical fallacies are showing and telling on themselves.

I don't know how or why IB hurt you, but it's clear you've got some intense feelings about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dual enrollment is for kids to get college credit. Some kids have topped out at what their school has to offer, so they go to MC for a math, science etc… class they want/need. A lot of schools may not take an AP credit, but more take an actual college credit. It also looks more impressive on a college application as its a real college class, which is more rigorous than an AP class. Most other counties in MD (and other states) have many more kids doing this than MCPS does.

Correction: it does not look more impressive than getting a 4 or 5 on an AP exam. Many colleges prefer AP credits because they are standardised exams. If you ask kids, they almost always say that the AP classes are harder than MC classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dual enrollment is for kids to get college credit. Some kids have topped out at what their school has to offer, so they go to MC for a math, science etc… class they want/need. A lot of schools may not take an AP credit, but more take an actual college credit. It also looks more impressive on a college application as its a real college class, which is more rigorous than an AP class. Most other counties in MD (and other states) have many more kids doing this than MCPS does.

Correction: it does not look more impressive than getting a 4 or 5 on an AP exam. Many colleges prefer AP credits because they are standardised exams. If you ask kids, they almost always say that the AP classes are harder than MC classes

The MC/DE cabal is going to cut your throat for making this assertion, even though you're absolutely right.

[Anonymous]

We hired a private college counselor for my oldest who is a rising junior. We are fortunate as we can afford full pay at any US college. The college advisor told us that the top 25 colleges look more favourably at AP credits vs. MC credits. She discouraged my son from signing up for MC classes even though his MCPS HS heavily pushes MC classes. Obviously, a kid needing to graduate early from college (UMD) because of financial reasons might make a different choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If IB is such a waste of time and DE is so superior, why do kids from across the county clamor to get into RM's Magnet IB program?

Why is MCPS establishing Regional IB programs to lure more affluent, high-achieving schools to its lower-performing schools to lift the bar?

IB is VERY respected and sought after for a reason. You want to argue that MC trumps it because....?

Ah, the good old argument from authority!

Here are some reasons DE is better than IB for the student that is aiming to top 10 colleges:

1. Greater variety of classes that fit the interest of the student, for example: organic chemistry, genetics, linear algebra, modern physics
2. More flexibility on the schedule, you can choose each semester what classes to enroll in, you can take classes over the summer, there are online options etc.
3. Higher level of classes up to sophomore level in college, AP and IB are only freshman level classes
4. You get CC credit for specific courses, that can be equivalent 1:1 to university courses, you can also take AP exam at the end if you want
5. You’re not committed to a years long program that may be a bad fit, have bad teachers, or is not aligned with the student evolving interests.


Your entire argument fir IB is that it’s well known and respected because others said so.

You didn't answer my question. If IB is so terrible like you say it is and DE so superior, why is MCPS expanding access to it across the entire school system?

Those two opinions don't compute. On the one hand, you're saying trust the teacher/school system and then on the other hand, you're saying to ignore them and that IB is an empty vessel that's not worth the time or energy as MCPS is literally arguing and investing in expanding access to it.

Which one is it?

If you’re asking me why MCPS takes the decisions they take you’re dumber than I thought. You’d fit right in within the IB diploma program lol. Sorry, I had to make this joke!

Are you saying you can’t filter advice for yourself and make your own decision. Within the same organization like a school there can be conflicting points of view. Nobody said IB is worthless and an empty vessel, just that DE has some advantages over IB.

Your only argument for IB is that others said so.

You're not dismissing IB and calling worthless, but you're calling me dumb and saying my supposed stupidity is evidence of why I would be a good fit the IB Diploma Program.

Your inferiority complex and logical fallacies are showing and telling on themselves.

I don't know how or why IB hurt you, but it's clear you've got some intense feelings about it.

I’m glad I successfully trolled you! Not because I have something against IB, but because your attitude of superiority sucks! You act like DE is for the poor masses who only dream about toiling away in the middle class, while IB is for the in the know crowd angling for the “elite” colleges and professions. That couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact I graduated with an advanced degree from one of those elite colleges. The way to get in is to find your passion, love to learn and develop your interests into deep expertise and knowledge. You can do this anywhere, including at the local community college. It’s not a negative, contrary to what “experts” will tell you.

IB is a rigorous, yet inflexible program. It’s not better than AP or DE, and I wouldn’t choose it for my child who used DE for advanced classes. I gave you my reasons on this thread. I’ve come to realize that CCs are one of the greatest features of the American educational system. They serve successfully a diverse set of students, including the very bright taking DE that will end up at the selective colleges you’re so fond of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We hired a private college counselor for my oldest who is a rising junior. We are fortunate as we can afford full pay at any US college. The college advisor told us that the top 25 colleges look more favourably at AP credits vs. MC credits. She discouraged my son from signing up for MC classes even though his MCPS HS heavily pushes MC classes. Obviously, a kid needing to graduate early from college (UMD) because of financial reasons might make a different choice

I’d strongly encourage you to ask for a refund from your college counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We hired a private college counselor for my oldest who is a rising junior. We are fortunate as we can afford full pay at any US college. The college advisor told us that the top 25 colleges look more favourably at AP credits vs. MC credits. She discouraged my son from signing up for MC classes even though his MCPS HS heavily pushes MC classes. Obviously, a kid needing to graduate early from college (UMD) because of financial reasons might make a different choice

I’d strongly encourage you to ask for a refund from your college counselor.

I second this.

[Anonymous]

Montgomery College Dual Enrollment and the early/middle programs offer a lot of opportunity, but it's complicated and not well understood even locally, so I wouldn't trust out of state colleges to understand and appreciate it.
They know what AP and IB are.

[Anonymous]

My kid is in DE so IB is worthless.
My kid is in IB so DE is worthless.

Gotta love DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in DE so IB is worthless.
My kid is in IB so DE is worthless.

Gotta love DCUM.

Yep, it’s not DCUM unless the smug character feeling superior to the rest makes an entrance. We almost missed you!

[Anonymous]

Students go to community college for many reasons. Some very bright students attend because it's cheaper. But also, some students attend because they were not ready for university or didn't have the HS grades to get in to their preferred schools. And returning (older) students attend because they were not on the college track initially and want to go back and try again, etc.

Thus, my sense has been that the experience and rigor of an MC course is less than an AP course at our home school (attended by college-bound students selecting the most rigorous path possible in their HS). I'm guessing university admissions officers view it this way, too. They won't look down on DE, but they don't favor it over APs and IBs.

That said, throughout MCPS, high schools vary in the number of APs offered, and probably also the rigor of those APs. That makes DE a different calculation across high schools. My kids attend a HS with almost too many APs offered, so there is little reason for the inconvenience of DE. But if they went to a HS with fewer APs or APs that didn't seem very challenging, I'd probably look at it differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We hired a private college counselor for my oldest who is a rising junior. We are fortunate as we can afford full pay at any US college. The college advisor told us that the top 25 colleges look more favourably at AP credits vs. MC credits. She discouraged my son from signing up for MC classes even though his MCPS HS heavily pushes MC classes. Obviously, a kid needing to graduate early from college (UMD) because of financial reasons might make a different choice

I’d strongly encourage you to ask for a refund from your college counselor.

I second this.

Yes, because the advice was common sense and you didn't need to pay someone to tell you the obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery College Dual Enrollment and the early/middle programs offer a lot of opportunity, but it's complicated and not well understood even locally, so I wouldn't trust out of state colleges to understand and appreciate it.
They know what AP and IB are.

This! All of these provide kids with access to advance course work and potentially could be used for college. However what matters when applying to college is what the colleges and universities understand about the programs. This is why it would behoove MCPS to update their website to clearly explain these thing generally and more precisely on each schools website that offers a specialized program. Further they need local counselors, principals, APs, and department heads to clearly understand the options and be making recommendations thoughtfully to students.

It’s communication and proper academic advising that is really needed. In high school there should be Counselors in the wellness centers dedicated to well being(physical, emotional, mental health) and a separate set of counselors dedicated to academics (grades, support, advising, programs options with other teaching staff).