Leaving people to wallow

[Anonymous]

I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

[Anonymous]

what are you blathering on about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what are you blathering on about?

+1😩

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand what OP is trying to say.

[Anonymous]

"when people want to pussy out like a b itch, let them"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

Some people will go to great lengths trying to convince you that taking responsibility for their actions is some sort of herculean task. Honestly, for people who weren't raised to be accountable for their behavior, it kinda is. They don't have the tools necessary to analyze their own behavior, and the impact they have on others, and then take responsibility for repairing whatever rupture they caused in the relationship. Some people just ghost at this phase. Others, perhaps realizing that ghosting is a coward's out, try to get YOU to leave. They're not going to change. You've seen what they're really like. And the sob story they're telling you about how they want better is hollow af. If they wanted better, they'd be working toward better. Once is a mistake, twice is a choice, thrice is a pattern.

In short, no, they're not genuinely struggling. They're just hoping you see it that way so you keep cutting them slack and giving them chances instead of holding the accountable (at which point, they may ghost), or even that you'll leave in frustration, removing the need for them to be responsible for their behavior(s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

There are happy with the relationship as is or they are happy it for it to disappear, depending on circumstances. Your whole post is a expression of frustration that you can't make an adult do what you want no matter how hard you try, no matter what clever phrases you use--yes. None of us have this power.

[Anonymous]

Leave. I have left three at least. One ended up killing themselves, one just sits around and exists, and one keeps themselves busy with work, but says they are not happy.
I'm not a psychologist you know.
Now I have very low tolerance for being around people with problems. Luckily I don't have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

There are happy with the relationship as is or they are happy it for it to disappear, depending on circumstances. Your whole post is a expression of frustration that you can't make an adult do what you want no matter how hard you try, no matter what clever phrases you use--yes. None of us have this power.

Rude, but not wrong, I guess. I might want an adult to act, you know, like an adult, but you're correct: that can't be forced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Leave. I have left three at least. One ended up killing themselves, one just sits around and exists, and one keeps themselves busy with work, but says they are not happy.
I'm not a psychologist you know.
Now I have very low tolerance for being around people with problems. Luckily I don't have to.

Eh... Everyone has problems. There's a huge difference between having stuff, knowing you have stuff, and actively doing something about your stuff and the projection and headgames OP's talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

There are happy with the relationship as is or they are happy it for it to disappear, depending on circumstances. Your whole post is a expression of frustration that you can't make an adult do what you want no matter how hard you try, no matter what clever phrases you use--yes. None of us have this power.

Rude, but not wrong, I guess. I might want an adult to act, you know, like an adult, but you're correct: that can't be forced.

Behavior like this makes no sense to honest people, which is why honest people waste their time trying to understand and figure it out. Dishonest people take advantage of this. Good people invest extra energy trying to "help" people who have been dishonest about wanting help and/or wanting to change.

The moment you recognize this dynamic, cut them loose. There's no solving people like this because they get off on the games, not the resolution. They'll often seek patient, empathetic people as partners because they get their needs met with the manipulations, and other people don't care enough to try to figure out the rules of whatever game's at play.

Don't be surprised if the jerks "hoover" you back in if/when you leave. They don't care about you, but they can't/won't leave you alone either. If you try to leave, they'll cry and pretend to want to make up, then increase the manipulations and guilt trips, even threatening suicide, just to keep your attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

There are happy with the relationship as is or they are happy it for it to disappear, depending on circumstances. Your whole post is a expression of frustration that you can't make an adult do what you want no matter how hard you try, no matter what clever phrases you use--yes. None of us have this power.

Manbaby behavior alert! "You can't make me change" while "technically correct" (i.e. the best kind of correct) is a full-on admission of guilt: "I know it's wrong AND I know you're powerless to stop me!" Only people who get off on their partner's helplessness would engage in that sort of behavior. I don't want to make someone change. I don't want to be with someone who has to be taught or told to analyze their own behavior and change the harmful parts. I don't want another child to raise.

And while I'm sure some of these people would be happy if the whole situation just magically disappeared, well, it doesn't work that way. You'll be accountable for the things you do, one way or another. Better to choose the easy way and just take responsibility.

[Anonymous]

You sound like a terrible human being.

People are born with different capabilities. Not everyone can do everything, and some people can do more than others. People value different things in life and different talents in others.

I object strongly to the shaming language you use, like "take the L". You are actually saying that these people could actually do better, but they're lazy and don't want to. When actually, they cannot.

"I guess I'm not good enough" is a response to overwhelming criticism from you. The thing you apparently call "guidance". It sounds like you are bullying these people and when they run out of ways to explain to you that they cannot measure up to your expectations, the conclusion is clear: to you, they will never be good enough.

So instead of trying to control what you cannot change, accept other people's limitations, and if you have that rapport, try to work within them. Don't automatically thing they're lying to you or themselves. You can choose to walk away or continue treating them with the basic human decency they all deserve.

What if it's your child? A child with special needs CAN be taught to stretch to their potential, within the scope of their brain wiring. It requires very delicate parenting and lots of specialists to know how much to push, when and in which direction.

But don't pretend to care by writing a post on DCUM that is actually full of contempt for people who are not like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a terrible human being.

People are born with different capabilities. Not everyone can do everything, and some people can do more than others. People value different things in life and different talents in others.

I object strongly to the shaming language you use, like "take the L". You are actually saying that these people could actually do better, but they're lazy and don't want to. When actually, they cannot.

"I guess I'm not good enough" is a response to overwhelming criticism from you. The thing you apparently call "guidance". It sounds like you are bullying these people and when they run out of ways to explain to you that they cannot measure up to your expectations, the conclusion is clear: to you, they will never be good enough.

So instead of trying to control what you cannot change, accept other people's limitations, and if you have that rapport, try to work within them. Don't automatically thing they're lying to you or themselves. You can choose to walk away or continue treating them with the basic human decency they all deserve.

What if it's your child? A child with special needs CAN be taught to stretch to their potential, within the scope of their brain wiring. It requires very delicate parenting and lots of specialists to know how much to push, when and in which direction.

But don't pretend to care by writing a post on DCUM that is actually full of contempt for people who are not like you.

Lying isn't a limitation, it's choice. If you're trying to get me to feel sympathy for all the poor, "special needs" liars out there, it's not gonna happen. Don't "bully" the poor liars by, what? Asking them, repeatedly, to just tell the truth about what they want? There's not even a wrong answer there; you want what you want. Just be honest about it instead of saying you want to change and then doing exactly dick all toward changing anything.

You're making this about something it's not. Stop projecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a terrible human being.

People are born with different capabilities. Not everyone can do everything, and some people can do more than others. People value different things in life and different talents in others.

I object strongly to the shaming language you use, like "take the L". You are actually saying that these people could actually do better, but they're lazy and don't want to. When actually, they cannot.

"I guess I'm not good enough" is a response to overwhelming criticism from you. The thing you apparently call "guidance". It sounds like you are bullying these people and when they run out of ways to explain to you that they cannot measure up to your expectations, the conclusion is clear: to you, they will never be good enough.

So instead of trying to control what you cannot change, accept other people's limitations, and if you have that rapport, try to work within them. Don't automatically thing they're lying to you or themselves. You can choose to walk away or continue treating them with the basic human decency they all deserve.

What if it's your child? A child with special needs CAN be taught to stretch to their potential, within the scope of their brain wiring. It requires very delicate parenting and lots of specialists to know how much to push, when and in which direction.

But don't pretend to care by writing a post on DCUM that is actually full of contempt for people who are not like you.

Lying isn't a limitation, it's choice. If you're trying to get me to feel sympathy for all the poor, "special needs" liars out there, it's not gonna happen. Don't "bully" the poor liars by, what? Asking them, repeatedly, to just tell the truth about what they want? There's not even a wrong answer there; you want what you want. Just be honest about it instead of saying you want to change and then doing exactly dick all toward changing anything.

You're making this about something it's not. Stop projecting.

I said they were NOT lying. Apparently you can't even read.