Leaving people to wallow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you’re talking about, OP. I had an ex I adored, and he would flip flop within the same conversation from declarations of love, to telling me he can never be good enough for me so I should move on. He’d tell me to date other men because I deserved better, and when I did, wallow because “see! I knew you didn’t actually like me!”

Why they do it doesn’t matter. It could be any number of things.

More importantly, is why do you try to win over these people. I realized I didn’t actually like *him*, I liked the idea and the drama of fixing a broken man and having him love me forever. Which is crazy, that’s not how good relationships are built. The correct answer is when someone wallows how they aren’t good enough - “ok, thanks for letting me know. Best of luck to you!” And move on.

Eso es. It seems "mean" but it's actually an act of love: accepting people as they are and processing that reality accordingly. No strife, no ongoing arguments, just "thank you for that information" and then the next right decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm.

I've been reading DCUM for more than 15 years, OP.

To be credible, thread creators describe their lived experience with factual details and examples, *avoid inserting brutally negative value judgments*, and then they have a chance of being believed and being treated like human beings.

You have no details.
You casually insult the people you have not described and group them as losers.
You clearly position yourself as a superior arbiter of what's allowed and what's not.
And you expect us to take your side.

Well, sorry, but you're not convincing. Seems to me you're the loser here, for intolerable arrogance.

Lot of hit dogs hollerin' on this thread that isn't even about them. Guilty minds see themselves in the stories of strangers. Probably explains all the defensive reactions on this thread.

How could anyone see themselves in the OP's post? It was completely jumbled up word salad. I couldn't recognize anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

I honestly have no idea what you are prattling on about. This sounds like a you thing - you are the common denominator. It’s not a “phenomenon.”

Funny how multiple other posters seemed to figure this out... Your comment sounds like the sort of gaslighting a manipulator would use to duck responsibility. Maybe you got it loud and clear and didn't want to accept that it's a thing you do, so you posted this dreck?

It's customary on DCUM to let people know in your reply that you're the OP. I guarantee nobody cares passionately about this post but you and your fingerprints are all over these impassioned responses. Just back away and don't look back, or ask Jeff to delete the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you’re talking about, OP. I had an ex I adored, and he would flip flop within the same conversation from declarations of love, to telling me he can never be good enough for me so I should move on. He’d tell me to date other men because I deserved better, and when I did, wallow because “see! I knew you didn’t actually like me!”

Why they do it doesn’t matter. It could be any number of things.

More importantly, is why do you try to win over these people. I realized I didn’t actually like *him*, I liked the idea and the drama of fixing a broken man and having him love me forever. Which is crazy, that’s not how good relationships are built. The correct answer is when someone wallows how they aren’t good enough - “ok, thanks for letting me know. Best of luck to you!” And move on.

Eso es. It seems "mean" but it's actually an act of love: accepting people as they are and processing that reality accordingly. No strife, no ongoing arguments, just "thank you for that information" and then the next right decision.

Worst case, they’re manipulative and trying to set up a power dynamic where you grovel and never hold them accountable. Best case, they have terrible communication skills. Either way, not someone you want to waste a lot of time and energy on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed a phenomenon when there's a rift between friends and partners. Often, I've seen one partner take the "victim L" of saying they just can't do better, keep up, etc. This role is usually played by someone who has said they want to change, want to do better, etc. Since they're giving up, the relationship can't go anywhere, including anywhere that would be a better closure.

I have to admit, I have wasted WAY too much time engaging these people, trying to listen, trying to help, trying to offer support or gentle guidance... The truth seems to be that they just want to take the victimese exit from whatever problems they have, especially when they're the cause of those problems. When confronted with how their own behavior has caused harm or upset, they will usually spiral into some self-loathing or "I guess I'm just not good enough". They seem to expect that they'll be allowed a pass out of their damage because, well, they just can't do anything about it. I don't want to be harsh, but I feel like it might be best to just leave these people in their pity pool. Am I missing something?

Is there a way to get through to these folks? Are they genuinely struggling, or is this just weaponized incompetence in an emotional sense?

I honestly have no idea what you are prattling on about. This sounds like a you thing - you are the common denominator. It’s not a “phenomenon.”

Funny how multiple other posters seemed to figure this out... Your comment sounds like the sort of gaslighting a manipulator would use to duck responsibility. Maybe you got it loud and clear and didn't want to accept that it's a thing you do, so you posted this dreck?

It's customary on DCUM to let people know in your reply that you're the OP. I guarantee nobody cares passionately about this post but you and your fingerprints are all over these impassioned responses. Just back away and don't look back, or ask Jeff to delete the thread.

It's customary on DCUM for a handful of trolls to make "I know who you are" accusations, derail, shitpost nonsense, tone police...

If it's not for you and/or you don't have something relevant to contribute, scrolling by is free. You can control yourself (right?), and you're not responsible for controlling what others do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know exactly what you’re talking about, OP. I had an ex I adored, and he would flip flop within the same conversation from declarations of love, to telling me he can never be good enough for me so I should move on. He’d tell me to date other men because I deserved better, and when I did, wallow because “see! I knew you didn’t actually like me!”

Why they do it doesn’t matter. It could be any number of things.

More importantly, is why do you try to win over these people. I realized I didn’t actually like *him*, I liked the idea and the drama of fixing a broken man and having him love me forever. Which is crazy, that’s not how good relationships are built. The correct answer is when someone wallows how they aren’t good enough - “ok, thanks for letting me know. Best of luck to you!” And move on.

Eso es. It seems "mean" but it's actually an act of love: accepting people as they are and processing that reality accordingly. No strife, no ongoing arguments, just "thank you for that information" and then the next right decision.

Worst case, they’re manipulative and trying to set up a power dynamic where you grovel and never hold them accountable. Best case, they have terrible communication skills. Either way, not someone you want to waste a lot of time and energy on.

The bolded is on point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm.

I've been reading DCUM for more than 15 years, OP.

To be credible, thread creators describe their lived experience with factual details and examples, *avoid inserting brutally negative value judgments*, and then they have a chance of being believed and being treated like human beings.

You have no details.
You casually insult the people you have not described and group them as losers.
You clearly position yourself as a superior arbiter of what's allowed and what's not.
And you expect us to take your side.

Well, sorry, but you're not convincing. Seems to me you're the loser here, for intolerable arrogance.

Lot of hit dogs hollerin' on this thread that isn't even about them. Guilty minds see themselves in the stories of strangers. Probably explains all the defensive reactions on this thread.

How could anyone see themselves in the OP's post? It was completely jumbled up word salad. I couldn't recognize anyone.

Are you just gonna troll and complain? Get a life!

[Anonymous]

Entire thread is toxic. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Entire thread is toxic. Go figure.

There are a handful of trolls on the site these days who 💩post, derail and attack people personally. I guess that's what happens when people think they're anonymous. It's annoying, but expected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm.

I've been reading DCUM for more than 15 years, OP.

To be credible, thread creators describe their lived experience with factual details and examples, *avoid inserting brutally negative value judgments*, and then they have a chance of being believed and being treated like human beings.

You have no details.
You casually insult the people you have not described and group them as losers.
You clearly position yourself as a superior arbiter of what's allowed and what's not.
And you expect us to take your side.

Well, sorry, but you're not convincing. Seems to me you're the loser here, for intolerable arrogance.

Nailed it. I can imagine a scenario where I would sympathize with OP's position, and one where I totally disagree with their position. The context matters greatly. Being vague is a good way to ensure no one can argue the point with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm.

I've been reading DCUM for more than 15 years, OP.

To be credible, thread creators describe their lived experience with factual details and examples, *avoid inserting brutally negative value judgments*, and then they have a chance of being believed and being treated like human beings.

You have no details.
You casually insult the people you have not described and group them as losers.
You clearly position yourself as a superior arbiter of what's allowed and what's not.
And you expect us to take your side.

Well, sorry, but you're not convincing. Seems to me you're the loser here, for intolerable arrogance.

Nailed it. I can imagine a scenario where I would sympathize with OP's position, and one where I totally disagree with their position. The context matters greatly. Being vague is a good way to ensure no one can argue the point with you.

You pick a side or you argue with/attack the OP for posting. You're arguing either way.