How did CBK bag JFK jr?

[Anonymous]

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder!! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

The thing is, when you’re JFK frigging Jr., EVERYONE is “down the ladder.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Bag"? Could you be more misogynist?

Most Kennedy men were awful humans.

For shame, OP. You disgust me.

I was kind of thinking this.

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder !! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

CBK and JFK Jr. were well suited to one another. She was from Greenwich.

I don't know who Jackie thought would be the best wife for him but she certainly didn't seem to have put forth any better candidates in his way. At least as far as I have read about.

I imagine Jackie wanted him to end up with someone like her or Caroline. Jackie was from a wealthy family, had a good pedigree and appeared to be interested in her role as First Lady. Caroline was the next generation of that - wealthy family, right pedigree, smart and ambitious.

I wonder if rose and Joseph Kennedy approved of their son’s spouses. I think Ethel was a friend of Eunice’s and came from the Kennedy world. Both Jackie and Ethel kind of understood the “‘never explain, never complain” mentality.

Caroline wasn't the right pedigree, in terms of background or education. She was not blue blood, grew up middle class, then moved to Greenwich as a teen. She was earthy and not at all patrician in bearing or manners. Not a strong student, at a middling school, surrounded by new family members who attended Ivies and took politics and public service very seriously.

I meant Caroline as in JFKs sister Caroline. I was saying Jackie wanted her son to end up with someone with a pedigree like her own or Caroline Kennedy’s. Carolyn did not have that pedigree. She was beautiful and passed for it but I think people like Jackie and Caroline kind of rolled their eyes at a beautiful “it girl” in a seemingly superficial fashion PR job. And working out of need, lol.

I think Jackie probably would have been okay with someone who wasn't from a similar family as long as they had the educational pedigree and traveled in the same circles. Ed Schlossberg (Caroline's husband) is from a family who had enough money to send Ed to private school in NYC, but nothing like the Kennedys (or the Beauvoirs). But his family highly valued education and Ed went to Columbia and got a PhD. He was also "earthy" in that he was an artist in NYC in the 70s and 80s, however he was/is an intellectual and his academic background is in philosophy. So he wasn't really from the same background as Caroline at all, but I think it was still a good match for the family because Schlossberg and his family cared about the same things as the Kennedys and Ed could attend family events and fundraisers with Caroline and not be a total fish out of water (even though I'm certain many people in the Kennedy set looked down on him for his background).

The issue with Carolyn is that she and her family did not have the same priorities as John's family at all. It was a total culture clash. Not with John (who was also rebelling against his family in a variety of ways) but between the families. They really were not well suited. While I normally hate her being mentioned on threads like this, I actually think Meghan Markel is very similar. A successful professional woman marrying the younger son of a family that views itself as an established institution with high expectations for its progeny. On the surface it seems like it will be okay but you've got a woman who likes making her own decisions and living her own life marrying into a family where obligation is doing what you're told is a big part of fitting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has a massive ugly nose

That's the old money look, you poor!

She was old money. Rich people get nose jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Bag"? Could you be more misogynist?

Most Kennedy men were awful humans.

For shame, OP. You disgust me.

I was kind of thinking this.

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder !! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

CBK and JFK Jr. were well suited to one another. She was from Greenwich.

I don't know who Jackie thought would be the best wife for him but she certainly didn't seem to have put forth any better candidates in his way. At least as far as I have read about.

I imagine Jackie wanted him to end up with someone like her or Caroline. Jackie was from a wealthy family, had a good pedigree and appeared to be interested in her role as First Lady. Caroline was the next generation of that - wealthy family, right pedigree, smart and ambitious.

I wonder if rose and Joseph Kennedy approved of their son’s spouses. I think Ethel was a friend of Eunice’s and came from the Kennedy world. Both Jackie and Ethel kind of understood the “‘never explain, never complain” mentality.

Caroline wasn't the right pedigree, in terms of background or education. She was not blue blood, grew up middle class, then moved to Greenwich as a teen. She was earthy and not at all patrician in bearing or manners. Not a strong student, at a middling school, surrounded by new family members who attended Ivies and took politics and public service very seriously.

I meant Caroline as in JFKs sister Caroline. I was saying Jackie wanted her son to end up with someone with a pedigree like her own or Caroline Kennedy’s. Carolyn did not have that pedigree. She was beautiful and passed for it but I think people like Jackie and Caroline kind of rolled their eyes at a beautiful “it girl” in a seemingly superficial fashion PR job. And working out of need, lol.

I think Jackie probably would have been okay with someone who wasn't from a similar family as long as they had the educational pedigree and traveled in the same circles. Ed Schlossberg (Caroline's husband) is from a family who had enough money to send Ed to private school in NYC, but nothing like the Kennedys (or the Beauvoirs). But his family highly valued education and Ed went to Columbia and got a PhD. He was also "earthy" in that he was an artist in NYC in the 70s and 80s, however he was/is an intellectual and his academic background is in philosophy. So he wasn't really from the same background as Caroline at all, but I think it was still a good match for the family because Schlossberg and his family cared about the same things as the Kennedys and Ed could attend family events and fundraisers with Caroline and not be a total fish out of water (even though I'm certain many people in the Kennedy set looked down on him for his background).

The issue with Carolyn is that she and her family did not have the same priorities as John's family at all. It was a total culture clash. Not with John (who was also rebelling against his family in a variety of ways) but between the families. They really were not well suited. While I normally hate her being mentioned on threads like this, I actually think Meghan Markel is very similar. A successful professional woman marrying the younger son of a family that views itself as an established institution with high expectations for its progeny. On the surface it seems like it will be okay but you've got a woman who likes making her own decisions and living her own life marrying into a family where obligation is doing what you're told is a big part of fitting in.

The show seems to be pushing the idea that she was scrappy & practical, but not sufficiently intellectual. She’s not able to comment on politics, & people at Kennedy gatherings keep mentioning the elite colleges they went to, & Carolyn is forced to admit she only went to BU (good college, but lacks cachet for snobs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

Ethel seemed less miserable than the rest of the Kennedy wives. She didn't commit suicide, drink herself to oblivion or otherwise die early. That's my only claim here.

Ethel must have had some status among the Kennedy wives because at least her husband was banging her at least once per year. As opposed to Jack & Ted, who were chasing everyone except their wives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

A rich cheating druggie? K thx bye.

And who couldn't even pass the NY bar? No. I khave standards.

If you had standards you wouldn’t be commenting here.

[Anonymous]

I find today's obsession with them crazy.

However, I do remember where I was when I found out they got married and when they crashed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

Ethel seemed less miserable than the rest of the Kennedy wives. She didn't commit suicide, drink herself to oblivion or otherwise die early. That's my only claim here.

Ethel must have had some status among the Kennedy wives because at least her husband was banging her at least once per year. As opposed to Jack & Ted, who were chasing everyone except their wives.

Jackie had 5 pregnancies in 10 years, including a stillbirth and a very premature baby that died. Thy were clearly having sex on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder!! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

The thing is, when you’re JFK frigging Jr., EVERYONE is “down the ladder.”

For a woman who wanted a good husband and provider, he was not at all a catch. The idea that everyone wanted him and everyone was below him is delulu. Only his fellow party animals wanted him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

DP. I think this is interesting because I disagree with both of you. I actually for sure would not have dated much less married JFK Jr., even in the extremely unlikely scenario that he wanted to do so. I would have been insanely flattered but then instantly suspicious of why someone in that position was interested in me, and would have run away from that relationship as fast as I could. I would have been absolutely overwhelmed by his family and the attention he'd get in public places, and because of my generally neurotic and self-critical nature, would have self-sabotaged out of it before it went anywhere.

And it is for that reason that I think one reason Carolyn, who could have had any number of wealthy and successful men in NY but chose John, did so at least in part out of hubris. Someone like me (reasonably attractive, well educated, but lacking in confidence especially when it comes to men) would never believe I could live up to and of his standards (coming from a very wealthy, famous, and connected family), his family's standards (see above), nor the standards of media and fans who would no doubt scrutinize whoever he married. The thought of it would freak me out and I'd run.

To some extend, being the kind of person who thinks you deserve to date People's Sexiest Man Alive comes with the fatal flaw of being too full of yourself to realize that's not actually the good deal it looks like from the outside. Or thinking that while sure, it would overwhelm some other woman, some neurotic, less disciplined, less confident, less successful, less beautiful woman, it won't overwhelm you. Maybe Carolyn thought she was special enough to wrestle that bear to the ground and put him on a leash. Hubris.

It's kind of like how you pretty much know anyone who would run for president has to be a little too arrogant for their own good, because any rational, self-reflective person would think "oh hell no." It's a bit of a catch-22. Anyone confident enough to actually angle for that job is probably a bit blinded by their own ambition in ways that might undo them in the end.

I'm with you. I never dated men who seemed too good to be true. When I was in my twenties, I went out on a date with a guy who told me he had dated x celeb and x model, and while he was definitely not JFK jr famous, he was at a lot of parties where he had been photographed and was easy to find in a Google image search. I declined a second date, and I don't regret it. You can't date known womanizers with trust funds and expect to have a happy marriage. Her own hubris got the best of her.

Who brags about who've they dated on a first date? Absolutely pathetic.

Not PP but I’ve met a lot of name droppers and I’m sure you have too. Both in DC and especially in New York. It’s pathetic, but definitely believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

Ethel seemed less miserable than the rest of the Kennedy wives. She didn't commit suicide, drink herself to oblivion or otherwise die early. That's my only claim here.

SHE HAD TWELVE C-SECTIONS. I don’t think that excuses her behavior or her crazy lack of parenting, but I can’t even imagine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

Ethel seemed less miserable than the rest of the Kennedy wives. She didn't commit suicide, drink herself to oblivion or otherwise die early. That's my only claim here.

SHE HAD TWELVE C-SECTIONS. I don’t think that excuses her behavior or her crazy lack of parenting, but I can’t even imagine.

Ethel's family of origin was very messy. Both parents were alcoholics and died in a plane crash. The kids were neglected yet indulged and she raised her own similarly. Interesting dynasty story in its own right; they were as rich or richer than the Kennedys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Bag"? Could you be more misogynist?

Most Kennedy men were awful humans.

For shame, OP. You disgust me.

I was kind of thinking this.

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder !! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

CBK and JFK Jr. were well suited to one another. She was from Greenwich.

I don't know who Jackie thought would be the best wife for him but she certainly didn't seem to have put forth any better candidates in his way. At least as far as I have read about.

I imagine Jackie wanted him to end up with someone like her or Caroline. Jackie was from a wealthy family, had a good pedigree and appeared to be interested in her role as First Lady. Caroline was the next generation of that - wealthy family, right pedigree, smart and ambitious.

I wonder if rose and Joseph Kennedy approved of their son’s spouses. I think Ethel was a friend of Eunice’s and came from the Kennedy world. Both Jackie and Ethel kind of understood the “‘never explain, never complain” mentality.

Caroline wasn't the right pedigree, in terms of background or education. She was not blue blood, grew up middle class, then moved to Greenwich as a teen. She was earthy and not at all patrician in bearing or manners. Not a strong student, at a middling school, surrounded by new family members who attended Ivies and took politics and public service very seriously.

I meant Caroline as in JFKs sister Caroline. I was saying Jackie wanted her son to end up with someone with a pedigree like her own or Caroline Kennedy’s. Carolyn did not have that pedigree. She was beautiful and passed for it but I think people like Jackie and Caroline kind of rolled their eyes at a beautiful “it girl” in a seemingly superficial fashion PR job. And working out of need, lol.

I think Jackie probably would have been okay with someone who wasn't from a similar family as long as they had the educational pedigree and traveled in the same circles. Ed Schlossberg (Caroline's husband) is from a family who had enough money to send Ed to private school in NYC, but nothing like the Kennedys (or the Beauvoirs). But his family highly valued education and Ed went to Columbia and got a PhD. He was also "earthy" in that he was an artist in NYC in the 70s and 80s, however he was/is an intellectual and his academic background is in philosophy. So he wasn't really from the same background as Caroline at all, but I think it was still a good match for the family because Schlossberg and his family cared about the same things as the Kennedys and Ed could attend family events and fundraisers with Caroline and not be a total fish out of water (even though I'm certain many people in the Kennedy set looked down on him for his background).

The issue with Carolyn is that she and her family did not have the same priorities as John's family at all. It was a total culture clash. Not with John (who was also rebelling against his family in a variety of ways) but between the families. They really were not well suited. While I normally hate her being mentioned on threads like this, I actually think Meghan Markel is very similar. A successful professional woman marrying the younger son of a family that views itself as an established institution with high expectations for its progeny. On the surface it seems like it will be okay but you've got a woman who likes making her own decisions and living her own life marrying into a family where obligation is doing what you're told is a big part of fitting in.

The show seems to be pushing the idea that she was scrappy & practical, but not sufficiently intellectual. She’s not able to comment on politics, & people at Kennedy gatherings keep mentioning the elite colleges they went to, & Carolyn is forced to admit she only went to BU (good college, but lacks cachet for snobs).

You just described about ten couples I know.

[Anonymous]

Didn’t he date Daryl Hannah? She was obviously his type.

[Anonymous]

Just coming in to comment about people "bagging" spouses ... that's happened throughout history. It's not new. It's actually what's even sort of expected even today in a capitalist economy. Instead of your birth, money raises you up. Somehow, though, in contrast to anti-capitalist opinion, you're supposed to make your money from almost any other source than the obvious ... the marriage alliance.

Or Jesus and God give it to you through the hands of the people who follow you.

OKaaaay.