How did CBK bag JFK jr?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

DP. I think this is interesting because I disagree with both of you. I actually for sure would not have dated much less married JFK Jr., even in the extremely unlikely scenario that he wanted to do so. I would have been insanely flattered but then instantly suspicious of why someone in that position was interested in me, and would have run away from that relationship as fast as I could. I would have been absolutely overwhelmed by his family and the attention he'd get in public places, and because of my generally neurotic and self-critical nature, would have self-sabotaged out of it before it went anywhere.

And it is for that reason that I think one reason Carolyn, who could have had any number of wealthy and successful men in NY but chose John, did so at least in part out of hubris. Someone like me (reasonably attractive, well educated, but lacking in confidence especially when it comes to men) would never believe I could live up to and of his standards (coming from a very wealthy, famous, and connected family), his family's standards (see above), nor the standards of media and fans who would no doubt scrutinize whoever he married. The thought of it would freak me out and I'd run.

To some extend, being the kind of person who thinks you deserve to date People's Sexiest Man Alive comes with the fatal flaw of being too full of yourself to realize that's not actually the good deal it looks like from the outside. Or thinking that while sure, it would overwhelm some other woman, some neurotic, less disciplined, less confident, less successful, less beautiful woman, it won't overwhelm you. Maybe Carolyn thought she was special enough to wrestle that bear to the ground and put him on a leash. Hubris.

It's kind of like how you pretty much know anyone who would run for president has to be a little too arrogant for their own good, because any rational, self-reflective person would think "oh hell no." It's a bit of a catch-22. Anyone confident enough to actually angle for that job is probably a bit blinded by their own ambition in ways that might undo them in the end.

I'm with you. I never dated men who seemed too good to be true. When I was in my twenties, I went out on a date with a guy who told me he had dated x celeb and x model, and while he was definitely not JFK jr famous, he was at a lot of parties where he had been photographed and was easy to find in a Google image search. I declined a second date, and I don't regret it. You can't date known womanizers with trust funds and expect to have a happy marriage. Her own hubris got the best of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

+1. I’m 30 years younger than him but he was incredibly handsome. And a Kennedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

What is your backstory that you have so little regard for women?

[Anonymous]

Carolyn was an It Girl. She was named the "ultimate beautiful person" in high school, and like PP mentioned, dated a Benetton heir and a future NHL player in college. Some girls/women just have it: beauty, wit, charisma. But unlike others who might have peaked in high school or college, she was also smart and disciplined enough to make it in increasingly bigger ponds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

DP. I think this is interesting because I disagree with both of you. I actually for sure would not have dated much less married JFK Jr., even in the extremely unlikely scenario that he wanted to do so. I would have been insanely flattered but then instantly suspicious of why someone in that position was interested in me, and would have run away from that relationship as fast as I could. I would have been absolutely overwhelmed by his family and the attention he'd get in public places, and because of my generally neurotic and self-critical nature, would have self-sabotaged out of it before it went anywhere.

And it is for that reason that I think one reason Carolyn, who could have had any number of wealthy and successful men in NY but chose John, did so at least in part out of hubris. Someone like me (reasonably attractive, well educated, but lacking in confidence especially when it comes to men) would never believe I could live up to and of his standards (coming from a very wealthy, famous, and connected family), his family's standards (see above), nor the standards of media and fans who would no doubt scrutinize whoever he married. The thought of it would freak me out and I'd run.

To some extend, being the kind of person who thinks you deserve to date People's Sexiest Man Alive comes with the fatal flaw of being too full of yourself to realize that's not actually the good deal it looks like from the outside. Or thinking that while sure, it would overwhelm some other woman, some neurotic, less disciplined, less confident, less successful, less beautiful woman, it won't overwhelm you. Maybe Carolyn thought she was special enough to wrestle that bear to the ground and put him on a leash. Hubris.

It's kind of like how you pretty much know anyone who would run for president has to be a little too arrogant for their own good, because any rational, self-reflective person would think "oh hell no." It's a bit of a catch-22. Anyone confident enough to actually angle for that job is probably a bit blinded by their own ambition in ways that might undo them in the end.

I'm with you. I never dated men who seemed too good to be true. When I was in my twenties, I went out on a date with a guy who told me he had dated x celeb and x model, and while he was definitely not JFK jr famous, he was at a lot of parties where he had been photographed and was easy to find in a Google image search. I declined a second date, and I don't regret it. You can't date known womanizers with trust funds and expect to have a happy marriage. Her own hubris got the best of her.

Who brags about who've they dated on a first date? Absolutely pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carolyn was an It Girl. She was named the "ultimate beautiful person" in high school, and like PP mentioned, dated a Benetton heir and a future NHL player in college. Some girls/women just have it: beauty, wit, charisma. But unlike others who might have peaked in high school or college, she was also smart and disciplined enough to make it in increasingly bigger ponds.

She was smarter, more interesting, and higher functioning than him. He needed her more than she needed him. As soon as his mom died, he needed a wife to take over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

Yeah but coupling up with him came with all sorts of baggage and scrutiny she didn't want and couldn't handle.

She thought she could. She seemed like a pretty tough young woman. Not sure why she couldn't handle it, doesn't really jibe with her temperament (as recounted by others).

Has any woman married to Joe Kennedy or one of his descendants claimed to have had a happy marriage? Were any of the Kennedy men not serial cheaters and completely reckless with women's lives? Like, a single one of them? I think every woman who married a Kennedy ended up dead or miserable. Maybe Ethel was reasonably happy, but she became a widow relatively young and never sought remarriage, and Bobby seemed a little less horrible than the rest of them, though his affairs were still well known.

You think a woman who had to raise 11 children, with a husband who was largely absent, was happy?

Ethel seemed less miserable than the rest of the Kennedy wives. She didn't commit suicide, drink herself to oblivion or otherwise die early. That's my only claim here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that really strikes me when I look at old photos of Carolyn, both before and after she started dating John, is what her upkeep for her appearance must have cost. Her hair alone would have been in the thousands every year -- she had one of the most perfect blondes ever, the kind that requires one of the really skilled master colorists. I bet women must have been walking into salons with her photo for years looking for that color and tone. Better than Gwyneth's and GOOP was definitely a NY blonde icon at that time.

But it's not just the hair. Obviously she worked in fashion so her clothes are impeccable but it's the details. I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to achieve that aesthetic, where it looks so basic and simple but it's perfect. Perfect red lip. Perfect accessories. Every piece of clothing tailored -- I think she likely got t shirts and jeans tailored even. For a non-celeb without a trust fund to accomplish that is frankly really impressive. And she did it while working a fairly demanding job -- fashion PR is long hours and a lot of travel.

It seems superficial, because it is, but it also demonstrates the lengths she was willing to go to in order to achieve what she wanted. It shows real discipline, eye for detail, restraint.

Based on her look alone, it doesn't surprise me she wound up marrying the most eligible bachelor of the decade.

This is an interesting post. What do we know about CBK’a background? I don’t think she’s old money or even really new money in a significant sense. She was raised by a single mother and lived a modest life in not a very nice town until her mother married an Orthopedic Surgeon. Afterwards the family did relocate to Greenwich Connecticut. It seems her stepfather was quite rich and was able to provide them with a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle.

Carolyn’s style definitely is not stuffy or old money but rather, NYC fashion girlie cool vibes.

I do wonder if she always planned on marrying rich, even if it wasn’t America’s Prince.

Yes, she did. Every man she dated, going back to college, was very wealthy or at least somewhat famous.

Interesting that she hated the press and being famous then.

She was in college same time as me. Dated hockey players. Was pretty. Did a lot of coke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dispute the premise of this thread. She could have married a lot better than JFK Jr., even leaving aside that he wound up killing her and her sister. She had a great career and was still on the way up. Her social and professional circles would have been full of wealthy, connected men.

I don't think so. He was the biggest catch in America at that point in time. No one came close.

But that's just it. He wasn't a catch. He was reckless and entitled, and it cost her her life. If it wasn't in that plane, it would've been some other way. Read the book. Mary Richardson Kennedy, CBK, Mary Jo Kepechne, Rosmarie Kennedy, ... entitled, reckless men living off trust funds are not a catch.

Oh, please. You & every other broad in the country would have gladly strapped yourself into that death plane to hang with John John & the rest of those Kennedys.

A rich cheating druggie? K thx bye.

And who couldn't even pass the NY bar? No. I have standards.

He did pass in the end tho.

[Anonymous]

what's so weird is that she would be 60 today. Time is crazy.

[Anonymous]

She has a massive ugly nose

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that really strikes me when I look at old photos of Carolyn, both before and after she started dating John, is what her upkeep for her appearance must have cost. Her hair alone would have been in the thousands every year -- she had one of the most perfect blondes ever, the kind that requires one of the really skilled master colorists. I bet women must have been walking into salons with her photo for years looking for that color and tone. Better than Gwyneth's and GOOP was definitely a NY blonde icon at that time.

But it's not just the hair. Obviously she worked in fashion so her clothes are impeccable but it's the details. I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to achieve that aesthetic, where it looks so basic and simple but it's perfect. Perfect red lip. Perfect accessories. Every piece of clothing tailored -- I think she likely got t shirts and jeans tailored even. For a non-celeb without a trust fund to accomplish that is frankly really impressive. And she did it while working a fairly demanding job -- fashion PR is long hours and a lot of travel.

It seems superficial, because it is, but it also demonstrates the lengths she was willing to go to in order to achieve what she wanted. It shows real discipline, eye for detail, restraint.

Based on her look alone, it doesn't surprise me she wound up marrying the most eligible bachelor of the decade.

Eh, not quite.

I had a relative who worked in fashion in the 90s before she got married.

Young, thin, and fashion savvy goes a very long way.

Like Carolyn, she had gorgeous hair, great skin, thin (but my relative has great boobs), etc. and clothes just look great on her.

When she was young and in fashion, she mixed expensive pieces with off the rack from places like Gap, JCrew, Banana, etc. And she rarely needed to tailor anything. Some people are just lucky like that.

And my relative is still very fashion savvy but it comes across as effortless. She mostly wears simple, elegant clothes that are classic and basic. Jewelry is high quality and expensive but looks very classic. I know that she needs to tailor some things now, but she says it’s because the overall quality of clothing has simply gone down.

My relative is quite affluent now (married well). She’s the person that everyone says looks effortlessly beautiful and always dresses for the event. At low key fun events, she looks cool. At dressy events, she looks the most elegant.

I don't get your point.

The point being that Carolyn probably wasn’t spending a fortune on clothes, certainly wasn’t paying to have them tailored, and likely wasn’t spending a lot on beauty products or hair care. We really didn’t do that in the 90s. Sure, highlights in nyc weren’t cheap, but when you have great hair the highlights could be easier and cheaper than you imagine.

I have been getting highlights for decades. While I used to spend a fortune at a high end salon, I’ve found a great colorist at Hair Cuttery by luck and like Carolyn I go months between color (the girl usually had roots showing; she wasn’t going overboard).

Wrong. Immaculate tailoring was her thing. She also had brand labels removed—had lead remove the label off of her ski suit.

She likely had a tailor at Calvin that could do all this at no cost, not to mention 2 of her best friends were up and coming designers and could also help with that.

The money look is understated and about fit and tailoring.

Sure, if she had pals tailoring things free, I guess…

But pre-JFK Jr she was like everyone else in fashion in nyc. And even if you look at polished super models in the 90s, the beauty care craze really wasn’t a thing yet…hence bad/frizzy hair and basic makeup and products.

She wasn’t tailoring t-shirts. Everything just fit well when you were skinny in the 90s. Trust me. I was there.

Lol her "pal" at CK was Narciso Rodriguez, who she was close friends with and who made some of her clothes custom even before he left CK to start his own label.

Carolyn was not your run of the mill PR hack working in fashion in the 90s. She was a rising star, before she even started dating JFK Jr., who was doing a lot of stuff in a more elevated and refined way than other women working in the industry. Sure, there were hundreds of young women working in fashion in NYC in the 90s who were getting by on youth and natural good looks and took pride in making high-low fashion work and how their drug store makeup looked "just as good" as Chanel. But Carolyn was not one of them. By the early 90s she was already styling celebrity clients for CK and she was at a director level at the brand before she and JFK Jr. married. She spent like a millisecond doing the typical PR hack work before she was promoted, specifically because her style and discipline was a cut above everyone else.

Love you. This is the most credible post for me, I was also in NYC in the 90s and know one person who is/was of this world. I also maintained that he married up, not her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has a massive ugly nose

That's the old money look, you poor!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Bag"? Could you be more misogynist?

Most Kennedy men were awful humans.

For shame, OP. You disgust me.

I was kind of thinking this.

All humans have for all times sought to find appropriate mates, if even the persons involved got to choose for themselves.

No one's like, well I guess I shall marry down the ladder !! Unless there's something like a baby involved or much hotness.

CBK and JFK Jr. were well suited to one another. She was from Greenwich.

I don't know who Jackie thought would be the best wife for him but she certainly didn't seem to have put forth any better candidates in his way. At least as far as I have read about.