Parents getting upset about any group invitation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

NP. I agree that parents should instruct their children not to discuss social events at school. But parents should also teach their kids that they will not be invited to every event, and that’s okay. Frankly it’s not even clear to me that the “excluded” child is upset. It’s the mother who seems to be taking all this very badly.

The mother said her piece and then has been silent. Not sure why OP isn’t picking up on her cues that she is no longer interested in a group that didn’t include her kid. This kid found out about a party and said something to their parent. What exactly did that kid do wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

And sometimes they do. It isn’t normal for one parent to confront another like this over an invitation. I don’t know anyone that that would do that

I agree it's not normal but also we are just getting OP's perspective here. Generally when a person's behavior seems irrational to me, the problem is that I don't have enough info. Perhaps if the heard the other woman's POV, we'd at least understand her behavior, even if we still disagreed with it.

My suspicion is that her kid is having a hard time making friends and fitting in and she feels powerless to help him. Worst case scenario, the kids in this friend group are being overtly unkind and exclusionary. OP might not even be aware of these problems, but this woman may be hearing a lot about it from her kid and it's making her react emotionally.

People tend to be protective of their kids. My DD knew some girls in elementary who were not kind to her. It wasn't a huge deal but they were just very critical and condescending. It's hopefully a behavior they outgrew. I told her to steer clear of them and she did, it wasn't a huge problem. But I will admit that it made me distrust their moms and I wound up steering clear of them, too. Maybe that was unfair, but hearing about stuff like that from your kid just changes how you view another family.

+1 and I said this on the first page of this thread.
This is not about the mom wanting to bust into your exclusive social group. This is about her kid feeling left out.
The alpha mom at my school had been nothing but nice to ME. She has offered help with projects, invited me out for drinks and even a weekend trip. But she excludes my son who is shy and awkward and not sporty. "It's too bad the boys aren't friends". She has implied that he should try harder to get into her son's tight knit group. The truth is that her son is mean to mine and I have witnessed it. "You suck, loser" etc. I dont feel like seeing her knowing that. And if I told her she would never believe it.

+1. The mom was upset because her son was being excluded. I have to deal with this with my daughter. She is friends with girls from our neighborhood, but because a group of families have formed an exclusive socializing clique - I’ve had to reach out to make sure my daughter gets included in certain events with her friends, because most of the parents are too oblivious and focused on their own social lives to realize that the kids of their clique aren’t even friends. This year for Halloween- I was proactive and reached out to a mom in the group I’m friendly with to make sure that DD could trick or treat with the group. I don’t want to be invited to the mom’s wine nights - I just want DD to be included with kids she is friends with.

If your daughter is friends with the other girls, there’s no problem with reaching out and coordinating events with the other parents. If you’re not friends with the other parents, they’re probably very glad to have another child along without the burden of turning a friend gathering into a polite gathering.

I wouldn’t criticize the other parents as being oblivious or judging whether or not they recognize the friendships among their kids. (Or as pp did, calling the other kids mean). Then it raises the question of burdening another family with a kid whose mom judge their kids and families. Why would anyone be inclusive of that?

You sound like the queen bee of your neighborhood clique, justifying why you can’t be inclusive.

The exact opposite. I’m an older mom whose friends’ children are much older. However, my kids are frequently included.

Of course your kids are included. The lack of empathy in here is stunning.

They’re included, in part, because I don’t demand or expect anything of parents whose kids are not their friends.

If you keep criticizing people you want things from, especially when you can’t or won’t offer anything in return, you’ll not get them. Is this not obvious?

Lady, a neighbor observing that parents of her kids friends have formed a neighborhood clique that also results creates an exclusive socializing environment for the kids, and that some of the parents are oblivious to this is not criticizing the parents. Some people are not going to notice this, especially if they’re included in the clique. PP is just taking steps to make sure that her daughter can still be included. You keep posting that your younger child is included by the much older children of your friends. Do you think that your child is the actual friend of those kids, or that they just include them because their parents told them too? This happens frequently, especially in neighborhood cliques. There are countless posts about neighborhood cliques and being excluded. You’re just justifying your own actions.

No, my child is not included by the much older children of my friends. They're much older!

My child is included by my child's friends. I do not expect or demand that their much younger mothers include me. Why would they?

If the daughter is friends with the other girls, it's perfectly appropriate to reach out and coordinate. The other parents likely welcome it.

If the daughter is not friends with the other girls, and the mom is not friends with the other moms, then both are better served finding their own friends.

[Anonymous]

I hear you OP. We’re dealing with a similar situation in my family. My DD’s friend had a sleep over and my DD wasn’t invited. She knows she can’t be invited to everything and while disappointed, she gets it. That said, the girl who had the sleep over made it a point of letting my DD know she had a party and my child wasn’t invited. She was rather obnoxiously about it. It was hurtful. Parents aren’t always aware of their kids behavior. Sometimes there is more to the story than “we can’t invite everyone”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

Right. And it’s never ok to invite yourself or guilt/shame someone into inviting you to something, no matter what you overhear. Go make your own plans and control your emotions

If you felt shamed, don’t keep making the same mistake. Manage the crap coming out of your mouth first. Why are you resisting the obvious solution? Keep your social plans to yourself because you can’t control others.

“I” wasn’t shamed. You are spouting nonsense. This didn’t happen to me. But clearly that was the intent of the parent OP was talking about that confronted her over this situation

So, as you know, when you can't control other people, you have to control your own behavior. In this case, stop talking in front of others about your parties. That's all that is needed. Not trying to scold strangers about how they should or should not react to the initial rudeness.

Ok. And OP didn’t talk about. Neither did her kid. So move on

Instead of lashing out at this other mom, blame the kids who talked. There are reasons these social norms exist.

Child who mentioned it is 6 and overheard parents talking about it.

Maybe there is a solution? Careful what you say around your kids.

Not the solution nor the problem. Not getting invited to things is part of life. This was a small gathering. While generally people (should) try to avoid directly mentioning something to you they may not know if are invited to, there are no top secret social events. You may overhear others talking, you may see a picture, someone may inadvertently or indirectly allude or mention something- it happens and is generally not some intentional vendetta to hurt you. This isn’t an excuse to go ballistic and pester people for leaving you out and insisting you be invited next time. THAT is what you need to teach your kids.

“I refuse to change my behavior so you better change yours!” Good luck with that!

It’s not “my behavior” it’s reality. You won’t be invited to everything and you may sometimes know of things you weren’t invited to attend. You need to learn to manage your feelings. No one is entitled to go to all the things

Ok. And you can fully expect some parents who also doesn’t subscribe to social norms, like you, might have something to say about it. You were warned.

I’ve never encountered a parent that demanded they or the child be included in something when they weren't otherwise invited. Not normal behavior and no excuse for it

Ok? OP did and is asking for advice. Sounds like you have none to give. If the upset parent was the one posting people would rightly tell her how to manage her own behavior but that’s not the situation. The lesson for OP is to watch what she says to and in front of her kids to avoid these situations because people are unpredictable. Is this really news to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear you OP. We’re dealing with a similar situation in my family. My DD’s friend had a sleep over and my DD wasn’t invited. She knows she can’t be invited to everything and while disappointed, she gets it. That said, the girl who had the sleep over made it a point of letting my DD know she had a party and my child wasn’t invited. She was rather obnoxiously about it. It was hurtful. Parents aren’t always aware of their kids behavior. Sometimes there is more to the story than “we can’t invite everyone”.

Kids use these parties as weapons. They threaten to uninvite or not invite people all the time. They use this to their full advantage. Pretending this was all innocent is very naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

These replies speak to our experience. My kid's friends with a group of kids whose moms are close. The moms are nice enough. And they and their kids do things that some could read as pointedly exclusionary. Like letting their kids call mine from every get together they all do. Or having conversations about ideas I've brought up individually with one of them and then deciding how to move forward together. It's like they're living by committee. And that influences how their kids sometimes interact with mine.

For us, we go when we're invited and we don't sweat it when we're not, especially since my kid says they don't care. Kiddo has a broad range of friends, so they are able to dismiss it. I know that's not true for all kids.

OP isn't responsible for another person's reaction. And the group she's in probably does do things that are strangely committee-like to people like me, exclusionary to more sensitive types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

NP. I agree that parents should instruct their children not to discuss social events at school. But parents should also teach their kids that they will not be invited to every event, and that’s okay. Frankly it’s not even clear to me that the “excluded” child is upset. It’s the mother who seems to be taking all this very badly.

The mother said her piece and then has been silent. Not sure why OP isn’t picking up on her cues that she is no longer interested in a group that didn’t include her kid. This kid found out about a party and said something to their parent. What exactly did that kid do wrong?

I don’t think anyone really did anything terribly wrong. Yes, the kid shouldn’t have talked about the event at school, but apparently we’re discussing 6 year olds here. Hurt feelings are a part of life and this could be a teachable moment for the excluded child. Instead his mother is making it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

These replies speak to our experience. My kid's friends with a group of kids whose moms are close. The moms are nice enough. And they and their kids do things that some could read as pointedly exclusionary. Like letting their kids call mine from every get together they all do. Or having conversations about ideas I've brought up individually with one of them and then deciding how to move forward together. It's like they're living by committee. And that influences how their kids sometimes interact with mine.

For us, we go when we're invited and we don't sweat it when we're not, especially since my kid says they don't care. Kiddo has a broad range of friends, so they are able to dismiss it. I know that's not true for all kids.

OP isn't responsible for another person's reaction. And the group she's in probably does do things that are strangely committee-like to people like me, exclusionary to more sensitive types.

This, and it could also be that the mom's kid is more sensitive than yours and more upset/bothered by some of the social bragging and competitiveness that the friend group's kids may engage in. She may be more annoyed by the exclusion of her kid simply because it is causing more problems for her at home, if her kid is complaining a lot about not being part of that group, not wanting to go to school, etc.

I think OP is perceiving this as being entirely about this woman wanting to break into their friend group and I think it's highly unlikely that's the case. The behavior really indicates this is creating issues with her kid and she resents the moms for creating this problem. The thing with the moms attending the gym class makes this obvious -- I guarantee this mom is not mad she didn't get to hang out at gym class with these other women. But instead, her kid came home and said "hey all the moms came to gym class today but you weren't there! why didn't you come, I felt left out," and this mom was like wtf I didn't even know this was something people were doing today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

NP. I agree that parents should instruct their children not to discuss social events at school. But parents should also teach their kids that they will not be invited to every event, and that’s okay. Frankly it’s not even clear to me that the “excluded” child is upset. It’s the mother who seems to be taking all this very badly.

The mother said her piece and then has been silent. Not sure why OP isn’t picking up on her cues that she is no longer interested in a group that didn’t include her kid. This kid found out about a party and said something to their parent. What exactly did that kid do wrong?

I don’t think anyone really did anything terribly wrong. Yes, the kid shouldn’t have talked about the event at school, but apparently we’re discussing 6 year olds here. Hurt feelings are a part of life and this could be a teachable moment for the excluded child. Instead his mother is making it worse.

But the mom is just choosing to no longer interact with OP and the moms in this group. How does that make it worse? It sounds like OP doesn't want to socialize with this woman (or have her kid socialize with this woman's son), but she also needs the more to be friendly to her.

OP's hurt feelings over the mom's silent treatment are also a "part of life" that OP is having trouble dealing with. So much so that she started this thread and posted repeatedly to defend herself and attack this woman. Who cares? There are also people I am not friends with who don't speak to me, it's never occurred to me that this is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

These replies speak to our experience. My kid's friends with a group of kids whose moms are close. The moms are nice enough. And they and their kids do things that some could read as pointedly exclusionary. Like letting their kids call mine from every get together they all do. Or having conversations about ideas I've brought up individually with one of them and then deciding how to move forward together. It's like they're living by committee. And that influences how their kids sometimes interact with mine.

For us, we go when we're invited and we don't sweat it when we're not, especially since my kid says they don't care. Kiddo has a broad range of friends, so they are able to dismiss it. I know that's not true for all kids.

OP isn't responsible for another person's reaction. And the group she's in probably does do things that are strangely committee-like to people like me, exclusionary to more sensitive types.

This, and it could also be that the mom's kid is more sensitive than yours and more upset/bothered by some of the social bragging and competitiveness that the friend group's kids may engage in. She may be more annoyed by the exclusion of her kid simply because it is causing more problems for her at home, if her kid is complaining a lot about not being part of that group, not wanting to go to school, etc.

I think OP is perceiving this as being entirely about this woman wanting to break into their friend group and I think it's highly unlikely that's the case. The behavior really indicates this is creating issues with her kid and she resents the moms for creating this problem. The thing with the moms attending the gym class makes this obvious -- I guarantee this mom is not mad she didn't get to hang out at gym class with these other women. But instead, her kid came home and said "hey all the moms came to gym class today but you weren't there! why didn't you come, I felt left out," and this mom was like wtf I didn't even know this was something people were doing today.

The proper response to the last example is, “Sometimes moms go to the gym together. Sometimes they don’t. Just like sometimes you play tag and sometimes you don’t.”

The kids are six.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you OP. We’re dealing with a similar situation in my family. My DD’s friend had a sleep over and my DD wasn’t invited. She knows she can’t be invited to everything and while disappointed, she gets it. That said, the girl who had the sleep over made it a point of letting my DD know she had a party and my child wasn’t invited. She was rather obnoxiously about it. It was hurtful. Parents aren’t always aware of their kids behavior. Sometimes there is more to the story than “we can’t invite everyone”.

Kids use these parties as weapons. They threaten to uninvite or not invite people all the time. They use this to their full advantage. Pretending this was all innocent is very naive.

This is true, but also sometimes kids engage in this behavior without fully understanding the situation. So it's both innocent AND being used as a weapon. They just don't know. These kids are 6. They might say "Larlo isn't invited to my party because I don't like him" which is rude and hurtful, but also just a fact that kid doesn't know you aren't supposed to say. Learning these sorts of social rules is hard for kids and takes years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

NP. I agree that parents should instruct their children not to discuss social events at school. But parents should also teach their kids that they will not be invited to every event, and that’s okay. Frankly it’s not even clear to me that the “excluded” child is upset. It’s the mother who seems to be taking all this very badly.

The mother said her piece and then has been silent. Not sure why OP isn’t picking up on her cues that she is no longer interested in a group that didn’t include her kid. This kid found out about a party and said something to their parent. What exactly did that kid do wrong?

I don’t think anyone really did anything terribly wrong. Yes, the kid shouldn’t have talked about the event at school, but apparently we’re discussing 6 year olds here. Hurt feelings are a part of life and this could be a teachable moment for the excluded child. Instead his mother is making it worse.

But the mom is just choosing to no longer interact with OP and the moms in this group. How does that make it worse? It sounds like OP doesn't want to socialize with this woman (or have her kid socialize with this woman's son), but she also needs the more to be friendly to her.

OP's hurt feelings over the mom's silent treatment are also a "part of life" that OP is having trouble dealing with. So much so that she started this thread and posted repeatedly to defend herself and attack this woman. Who cares? There are also people I am not friends with who don't speak to me, it's never occurred to me that this is a problem.

She’s making it worse by teaching her kid that this is a legitimate grievance. It’s not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did it become the expectation that everyone has to be invited to everything? Do you invite the whole class? The whole school? Everyone within a 5 mile radius? What is the cutoff? And what about kids from activities? Do you also invite the whole soccer team?

Did the people who are complaining about not being invited have thousand person weddings? Do you host people at your house over capacity?

I’m using exaggeration to make a point, but I really wonder about this.

There are just some bitter-sounding people who think they should be invited to everything.

If you don’t care about others you wouldn’t have started a thread like this. You are not OP. OP is at least trying to do the right thing.

Thanks for proving my point with your ad hominem jab. Notice how you didn’t answer my question?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

These replies speak to our experience. My kid's friends with a group of kids whose moms are close. The moms are nice enough. And they and their kids do things that some could read as pointedly exclusionary. Like letting their kids call mine from every get together they all do. Or having conversations about ideas I've brought up individually with one of them and then deciding how to move forward together. It's like they're living by committee. And that influences how their kids sometimes interact with mine.

For us, we go when we're invited and we don't sweat it when we're not, especially since my kid says they don't care. Kiddo has a broad range of friends, so they are able to dismiss it. I know that's not true for all kids.

OP isn't responsible for another person's reaction. And the group she's in probably does do things that are strangely committee-like to people like me, exclusionary to more sensitive types.

This, and it could also be that the mom's kid is more sensitive than yours and more upset/bothered by some of the social bragging and competitiveness that the friend group's kids may engage in. She may be more annoyed by the exclusion of her kid simply because it is causing more problems for her at home, if her kid is complaining a lot about not being part of that group, not wanting to go to school, etc.

I think OP is perceiving this as being entirely about this woman wanting to break into their friend group and I think it's highly unlikely that's the case. The behavior really indicates this is creating issues with her kid and she resents the moms for creating this problem. The thing with the moms attending the gym class makes this obvious -- I guarantee this mom is not mad she didn't get to hang out at gym class with these other women. But instead, her kid came home and said "hey all the moms came to gym class today but you weren't there! why didn't you come, I felt left out," and this mom was like wtf I didn't even know this was something people were doing today.

The proper response to the last example is, “Sometimes moms go to the gym together. Sometimes they don’t. Just like sometimes you play tag and sometimes you don’t.”

The kids are six.

The moms didn't "go to the gym together." They did a special visit to their child's gym class together. The child who sees this, notes his mom is not there, and feels embarrassed or hurt is actually correctly perceiving the social situation -- he is recognizing that there are a group of parents who know each other and are friends, and can plan special events for their kids like this which bring more attention to their kids and may improve their kids' social standing at school, and that his mom is not part of that group and cannot help his social standing at school in the same way.

Like I guarantee the day those moms all showed up to gym class that day, all the kids noticed and talked about it and it conferred a special status on the kids whose moms were there. Maybe those kids got to do something special in class with their moms that the other kids didn't get to do, maybe the gym teacher gave the moms special jobs or made a big deal about it. The kid can tell this group of families has a kind of special status at the school by virtue of being a cohesive group, and he can tell that it helps those kids socially and that he doesn't have the same advantages. Telling him "oh this is like when you decide not to play tag" is gaslighting him. He understands the situation better than you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you sound like a bunch of middle schoolers. I thought I was in the teen forum and couldn’t believe what I was reading and just noticed I was in the elementary forum. I must have clicked here by mistake.

Ignore the mom and stop caring what anyone thinks. Soon enough, you won’t even know the parents of your kids friends. - mom of teens

^^^^

We've just found the mom that does this stuff on purpose.

You are bananas. OP did nothing at all wrong and the other mom sounds unhinged. I cannot imagine caring about this or confronting another parent about not being invited to something. That is psycho

Psycho is not explaining to your kids social norms. Since you can't control others behavior, stop putting yourself in the position to get blow back. It's really very simple. Shut your mouth, and nothing will happen. You can't control others so control your own behavior, right?

It’s normal to occasionally find out about something you weren’t invited to for many reasons. This wasn’t a gathering at Camp David. I’ve had a friend ask me if I’m going to So and So’s dinner on the weekend (when I didn’t even know about it, i.e. I wasn’t invited). I just say, no, I’m not. I don’t make that person feel bad for mentioning it nor do I call up the host and harangue her for not inviting me. It’s not a big deal.

Read the op. A kid mentioned it to another kid. Kids shouldn’t do that. Because look what happens.

NP. I agree that parents should instruct their children not to discuss social events at school. But parents should also teach their kids that they will not be invited to every event, and that’s okay. Frankly it’s not even clear to me that the “excluded” child is upset. It’s the mother who seems to be taking all this very badly.

The mother said her piece and then has been silent. Not sure why OP isn’t picking up on her cues that she is no longer interested in a group that didn’t include her kid. This kid found out about a party and said something to their parent. What exactly did that kid do wrong?

I don’t think anyone really did anything terribly wrong. Yes, the kid shouldn’t have talked about the event at school, but apparently we’re discussing 6 year olds here. Hurt feelings are a part of life and this could be a teachable moment for the excluded child. Instead his mother is making it worse.

But the mom is just choosing to no longer interact with OP and the moms in this group. How does that make it worse? It sounds like OP doesn't want to socialize with this woman (or have her kid socialize with this woman's son), but she also needs the more to be friendly to her.

OP's hurt feelings over the mom's silent treatment are also a "part of life" that OP is having trouble dealing with. So much so that she started this thread and posted repeatedly to defend herself and attack this woman. Who cares? There are also people I am not friends with who don't speak to me, it's never occurred to me that this is a problem.

🤦‍♀️

OP posted because she’s gone above and beyond and the other mom is acting pissy and huffy. The excluded mom needs to take it down a notch. She’s a taker with thin skin and OP should cut her off completely.