Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq

Gender identity is one's own internal sense of self and their gender, whether that is man, woman, neither or both. Unlike gender expression, gender identity is not outwardly visible to others.

For most people, gender identity aligns with the sex assigned at birth, the American Psychological Association notes. For transgender people, gender identity differs in varying degrees from the sex assigned at birth.

I’m confused. If gender identity is related to internal sense of self, why is sex re-assignment hormones and surgery a common path of treatment?

Because it’s really distressing not to feel like your appearance matches your internal sense of self. I’m a woman with PCOS and my beard, receding hairline, and excessive body hair have literally made me suicidal. It doesn’t make me any less of a woman to have those male characteristics, but the dysphoria is intense.

I’m not debating with anyone that dysphoria isn’t real. I’m asking how gender identity is different than dysphoria because everyone says you don’t need to be dysphoric to be trans.

transgender = gender identity differs from the sex assigned at birth

gender dysphoria = "psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity. Not all trans people experience dysphoria, and those who do may experience it at varying levels of intensity."

So transgender is the same as gender dysphoria but without the psychological distress? Is that right?

I am a transgender woman. Transgender in that sentence is an adjective describing the type of woman I am. I am a skinny transgender woman. That sentence has two adjectives. Both define the type of woman. These are adjectives that modify the noun.

I am a skinny transgender woman with gender dysphoria.

I hope this clears up confusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:“It is a cheap rhetorical trick to constantly pretend, as Trans Radical Activists do, that this debate is the same as the Civil Rights Movement or the Gay Rights Movement. It isn’t, because in those debates, there was no conflict of rights between peoples.” X Shahana Ashur

This was incredibly helpful for me when trying to understand how to frame the argument.

Christians in TN refusing to process paperwork for gay men getting married. Cake shops. All that freedom of religion stuff where people claim their god hates gays.

Yes, and white supremacists had their feelings hurt by the Civil Rights Act.

But none of that is remotely similar to the actual increased physical risks that women take on to benefit the trans rights movement. And in the other two civil rights movements, there wasn’t a new rapacious medical industry whose continued profit depended on the success of the movement. And that is the difference here.

Yes, obnoxious Christian bakers got told to bake a stupid cake. I think most Americans rolled their eyes and told them to bake the stupid cake. That’s not a conflict of rights, that’s some snowflakes being told to do something that doesn’t physically hurt them at all.

But trans rights is very different because women are being and will get physically harmed due to the destruction of women’s single-sex spaces. Male predators (who will mostly be cis) have used and will use enhanced access to spaces they couldn’t previously access. Meanwhile, children and vulnerable adults have been and will be hurt by an industry that is profit-driven, growing rapidly, and repressing any academic research critical of their profit.

I want to be clear: I do not support bathroom bans, or bans on children’s access to treatment. But it needs to be okay to talk about the enormous societal harms that some people, disproportionately the most vulnerable, will pay for the advancement of transgender rights. Right now, that discussion is shut down entirely. Academics who so much as question some of the glaringly weak studies on transgender medical care for children risk losing their entire careers at the hands of activists. Women who speak about physical safety risks face grotesquely violent rape and death threats from trans activists.

All of this is very, very different from prior civil rights movements.

Trans people shouldn't be punished for things that a different group is doing. I'm glad you don't support bathroom bans, but so many people do. Cis men sometimes assault women, cis men take advantage to open access, so let's ban trans women from women's bathrooms. I've yet to see any information that shows allowing trans women access to women's bathrooms increases violent crimes against women. I've seen a study that showed violent crimes increase where there are unisex bathrooms, which is a completely different topic. I don't think there's going to be a big rush of cis men claiming to be trans women for 5 minute increments so they can use the women's bathroom, and if that does happen, again, that's a cis men problem not a trans problem.

The PP is intentionally conflating violent cis-gender men with transgender women.

How are we supposed to tell the difference? How?

One of my university friends is a pre-Hrt lesbian MTF. He (pronouns are still he/him) still “male modes” at work because he’s not out there but he has told me he sometimes uses female restrooms when out in public. So far into his transition (~1.5 yrs) he still looks like a 6’0 man with stubble and chin length hair, only he wears nail polish and jewelry but I’m not sure I would notice that from a distance. If I encountered him in a bathroom he would just look like a random big male person. And it would be frightening for me to be isolated with a strange male as I have been assaulted in my past. I can’t get over the fact that if I showed any sign of being nervous or not wanting him there in that situation I would be the bigot and could conceivably lose my job.

Is he in “woman mode” outside of work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq

Gender identity is one's own internal sense of self and their gender, whether that is man, woman, neither or both. Unlike gender expression, gender identity is not outwardly visible to others.

For most people, gender identity aligns with the sex assigned at birth, the American Psychological Association notes. For transgender people, gender identity differs in varying degrees from the sex assigned at birth.

I’m confused. If gender identity is related to internal sense of self, why is sex re-assignment hormones and surgery a common path of treatment?

Because it’s really distressing not to feel like your appearance matches your internal sense of self. I’m a woman with PCOS and my beard, receding hairline, and excessive body hair have literally made me suicidal. It doesn’t make me any less of a woman to have those male characteristics, but the dysphoria is intense.

I’m not debating with anyone that dysphoria isn’t real. I’m asking how gender identity is different than dysphoria because everyone says you don’t need to be dysphoric to be trans.

transgender = gender identity differs from the sex assigned at birth

gender dysphoria = "psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity. Not all trans people experience dysphoria, and those who do may experience it at varying levels of intensity."

So transgender is the same as gender dysphoria but without the psychological distress? Is that right?

No. Gender dysphoria is a condition for some but not all transgender people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adult human female. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them sad, but physical safety is paramount to me. Truly sad that my definition feels exclusionary and makes people feel badly. But their feelings don’t trump women’s safety.

Limiting the definition of woman will not address your irrational fears.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/woman
woman
an adult female human being:
an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth:
a wife or female sexual partner:
women in general:

My fears are not irrational.

Everyone who was born with a penis is not out to assault you.

Nah bro, but +95% of the people who want to assault us have a penis.

Go ahead dude, keep telling women how we should feel about our safety. Totally hysterical that we don’t want our female relatives to be incarcerated with violent males, right?

Unless you or your female relatives live in a red state, they are fine.

Irrational fears.

More gaslighting.

Facts. There just aren't that many transgender people out there.

So then why on earth do we need to change language for so few people?

Because the old timey language is no longer accurate.

I find it hilarious that “pregnant woman” is considered old timey language.

[Anonymous]

So I think I’m starting to understand it a little more.

Transgender folks who have gender dysphoria (a psychiatric condition) medically transition. Their sex organs must match their gender or else it causes too much psychological stress.

A transperson without gender dysphoria does not medically transition because they are only identifying with the societal construct of womanhood (or manhood) - nothing of what they are feeling has anything to do with the sex organs. So medical transition is not necessary in this case.

I still think the first case makes a person transsexual, not transgender, but that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adult human female. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them sad, but physical safety is paramount to me. Truly sad that my definition feels exclusionary and makes people feel badly. But their feelings don’t trump women’s safety.

Limiting the definition of woman will not address your irrational fears.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/woman
woman
an adult female human being:
an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth:
a wife or female sexual partner:
women in general:

My fears are not irrational.

Everyone who was born with a penis is not out to assault you.

Nah bro, but +95% of the people who want to assault us have a penis.

Go ahead dude, keep telling women how we should feel about our safety. Totally hysterical that we don’t want our female relatives to be incarcerated with violent males, right?

Unless you or your female relatives live in a red state, they are fine.

Irrational fears.

More gaslighting.

Facts. There just aren't that many transgender people out there.

So then why on earth do we need to change language for so few people?

Because the old timey language is no longer accurate.

I find it hilarious that “pregnant woman” is considered old timey language.

You can still use “pregnant woman” if you want.

And other people can use “pregnant people”.

Either work. 👍

[Anonymous]

It matters because loving, non-abusive parents who don't affirm their child's stated gender identity are losing custody and visitation.

Some parents have reported CPS intervention if they don't get on board with a teenager's transition plan.

I also personally think gender reassignment surgery will be viewed like lobotomy in the future. I am live and let live when adults are choosing medical care, but I think society needs to have an extremely high threshold of confidence that treatment will result in good mental and physical health outcomes before we start children down a medical path that changes their bodies and hormones before they've gained the maturity and experience of adulthood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adult human female. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them sad, but physical safety is paramount to me. Truly sad that my definition feels exclusionary and makes people feel badly. But their feelings don’t trump women’s safety.

Limiting the definition of woman will not address your irrational fears.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/woman
woman
an adult female human being:
an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth:
a wife or female sexual partner:
women in general:

My fears are not irrational.

Everyone who was born with a penis is not out to assault you.

Nah bro, but +95% of the people who want to assault us have a penis.

Go ahead dude, keep telling women how we should feel about our safety. Totally hysterical that we don’t want our female relatives to be incarcerated with violent males, right?

Unless you or your female relatives live in a red state, they are fine.

Irrational fears.

More gaslighting.

Facts. There just aren't that many transgender people out there.

So then why on earth do we need to change language for so few people?

Because the old timey language is no longer accurate.

I find it hilarious that “pregnant woman” is considered old timey language.

You can still use “pregnant woman” if you want.

And other people can use “pregnant people”.

Either work. 👍

While theoretically this is true, it seems that routinely using “pregnant woman” will lead you to being labeled as not inclusive. And the official definition of lesbian (according to Hopkins) replaces woman with non-man (or non-male, can’t remember which). Doesn’t seem like either “woman” or “non-man” work - if they did, the definition would have included both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I think I’m starting to understand it a little more.

Transgender folks who have gender dysphoria (a psychiatric condition) medically transition. Their sex organs must match their gender or else it causes too much psychological stress.

A transperson without gender dysphoria does not medically transition because they are only identifying with the societal construct of womanhood (or manhood) - nothing of what they are feeling has anything to do with the sex organs. So medical transition is not necessary in this case.

I still think the first case makes a person transsexual, not transgender, but that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

If someone chooses to identify as transexual they are able to but most people use transgender at this point in time. It’s up to the individual how they want to identify with each label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adult human female. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them sad, but physical safety is paramount to me. Truly sad that my definition feels exclusionary and makes people feel badly. But their feelings don’t trump women’s safety.

Limiting the definition of woman will not address your irrational fears.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/woman
woman
an adult female human being:
an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth:
a wife or female sexual partner:
women in general:

My fears are not irrational.

Everyone who was born with a penis is not out to assault you.

Nah bro, but +95% of the people who want to assault us have a penis.

Go ahead dude, keep telling women how we should feel about our safety. Totally hysterical that we don’t want our female relatives to be incarcerated with violent males, right?

Unless you or your female relatives live in a red state, they are fine.

Irrational fears.

More gaslighting.

Facts. There just aren't that many transgender people out there.

So then why on earth do we need to change language for so few people?

Because the old timey language is no longer accurate.

I find it hilarious that “pregnant woman” is considered old timey language.

You can still use “pregnant woman” if you want.

And other people can use “pregnant people”.

Either work. 👍

While theoretically this is true, it seems that routinely using “pregnant woman” will lead you to being labeled as not inclusive. And the official definition of lesbian (according to Hopkins) replaces woman with non-man (or non-male, can’t remember which). Doesn’t seem like either “woman” or “non-man” work - if they did, the definition would have included both.

If you’re in a room with transgender people who are pregnant then maybe you could be sensitive to your word choice.

The Hopkins site said language is changing and different people use different language. There are no “official“ words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I think I’m starting to understand it a little more.

Transgender folks who have gender dysphoria (a psychiatric condition) medically transition. Their sex organs must match their gender or else it causes too much psychological stress.

A transperson without gender dysphoria does not medically transition because they are only identifying with the societal construct of womanhood (or manhood) - nothing of what they are feeling has anything to do with the sex organs. So medical transition is not necessary in this case.

I still think the first case makes a person transsexual, not transgender, but that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

If someone chooses to identify as transexual they are able to but most people use transgender at this point in time. It’s up to the individual how they want to identify with each label[b].

And that’s where you lose me and a lot of people. It’s like you can label yourself whatever you want whenever you want, without any rhyme or reason - and we must respect this 100% or else we’re hateful.

Words have meanings. Scientific words have meanings. And they’re being lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I think I’m starting to understand it a little more.

Transgender folks who have gender dysphoria (a psychiatric condition) medically transition. Their sex organs must match their gender or else it causes too much psychological stress.

A transperson without gender dysphoria does not medically transition because they are only identifying with the societal construct of womanhood (or manhood) - nothing of what they are feeling has anything to do with the sex organs. So medical transition is not necessary in this case.

I still think the first case makes a person transsexual, not transgender, but that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

If someone chooses to identify as transexual they are able to but most people use transgender at this point in time. It’s up to the individual how they want to identify with each label[b].

And that’s where you lose me and a lot of people. It’s like you can label yourself whatever you want whenever you want, without any rhyme or reason - and we must respect this 100% or else we’re hateful.

Words have meanings. Scientific words have meanings. And they’re being lost.

Gender isn’t “scientific”. It’s a social construct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq

Gender identity is one's own internal sense of self and their gender, whether that is man, woman, neither or both. Unlike gender expression, gender identity is not outwardly visible to others.

For most people, gender identity aligns with the sex assigned at birth, the American Psychological Association notes. For transgender people, gender identity differs in varying degrees from the sex assigned at birth.

I’m confused. If gender identity is related to internal sense of self, why is sex re-assignment hormones and surgery a common path of treatment?

Because it’s really distressing not to feel like your appearance matches your internal sense of self. I’m a woman with PCOS and my beard, receding hairline, and excessive body hair have literally made me suicidal. It doesn’t make me any less of a woman to have those male characteristics, but the dysphoria is intense.

I’m not debating with anyone that dysphoria isn’t real. I’m asking how gender identity is different than dysphoria because everyone says you don’t need to be dysphoric to be trans.

transgender = gender identity differs from the sex assigned at birth

gender dysphoria = "psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity. Not all trans people experience dysphoria, and those who do may experience it at varying levels of intensity."

So transgender is the same as gender dysphoria but without the psychological distress? Is that right?

I am a transgender woman. Transgender in that sentence is an adjective describing the type of woman I am. I am a skinny transgender woman. That sentence has two adjectives. Both define the type of woman. These are adjectives that modify the noun.

I am a skinny transgender woman with gender dysphoria.

I hope this clears up confusion.

Exactly as I thought. You are trans because you say you are. Your biology may be undistinguishable from a male. But you because you sat “I am trans” that is what makes it so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I think I’m starting to understand it a little more.

Transgender folks who have gender dysphoria (a psychiatric condition) medically transition. Their sex organs must match their gender or else it causes too much psychological stress.

A transperson without gender dysphoria does not medically transition because they are only identifying with the societal construct of womanhood (or manhood) - nothing of what they are feeling has anything to do with the sex organs. So medical transition is not necessary in this case.

I still think the first case makes a person transsexual, not transgender, but that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

If someone chooses to identify as transexual they are able to but most people use transgender at this point in time. It’s up to the individual how they want to identify with each label[b].

And that’s where you lose me and a lot of people. It’s like you can label yourself whatever you want whenever you want, without any rhyme or reason - and we must respect this 100% or else we’re hateful.

Words have meanings. Scientific words have meanings. And they’re being lost.

Gender isn’t “scientific”. It’s a social construct.

Gender is a word with a meaning. So is the word woman. It has meaning. But apparently not anymore. Some people will even tell you female doesn’t have the same meaning anymore. It’s all feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq

Gender identity is one's own internal sense of self and their gender, whether that is man, woman, neither or both. Unlike gender expression, gender identity is not outwardly visible to others.

For most people, gender identity aligns with the sex assigned at birth, the American Psychological Association notes. For transgender people, gender identity differs in varying degrees from the sex assigned at birth.

I’m confused. If gender identity is related to internal sense of self, why is sex re-assignment hormones and surgery a common path of treatment?

Because it’s really distressing not to feel like your appearance matches your internal sense of self. I’m a woman with PCOS and my beard, receding hairline, and excessive body hair have literally made me suicidal. It doesn’t make me any less of a woman to have those male characteristics, but the dysphoria is intense.

I’m not debating with anyone that dysphoria isn’t real. I’m asking how gender identity is different than dysphoria because everyone says you don’t need to be dysphoric to be trans.

transgender = gender identity differs from the sex assigned at birth

gender dysphoria = "psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity. Not all trans people experience dysphoria, and those who do may experience it at varying levels of intensity."

So transgender is the same as gender dysphoria but without the psychological distress? Is that right?

I am a transgender woman. Transgender in that sentence is an adjective describing the type of woman I am. I am a skinny transgender woman. That sentence has two adjectives. Both define the type of woman. These are adjectives that modify the noun.

I am a skinny transgender woman with gender dysphoria.

I hope this clears up confusion.

Exactly as I thought. You are trans because you say you are. Your biology may be undistinguishable from a male. But you because you sat “I am trans” that is what makes it so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Weren't you asking for the difference between transgender and gender dysphoria? One is an adjective. The other is not. I am an adult trans woman. How else would I identify?