New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scott Brabrand and the FCPS board would have been fired had they worked for Georgetown Law. They openly discriminated against one racial group.

Basically any change in policy that doesn't preserve or increase TJ's Asian population will be viewed as antiAsian. I am all for opening up TJ admissions so a broader group of students are given a opportunity to excel in STEM. I think a 3.5 with each middle school getting a certain number of slots is an excellent idea. Despite being a race neutral standard, of course it will change the racial composition of the school. I think it's great to encourage kids from all backgrounds to purse STEM careers. It can't be that FCPS can never decide to adjust TJ admissions standards in anyway that might affect the number of Asians. Given the current makeup of TJ, that's impossible outside of keeping a system that can be easily gamed by those with want to cheat, even if only a small number of people.

Would you be in favor of having the students fill out an application that does not list their name, race or gender and have them take an admissions test and then have the top 1.5% of the scorers getting admitted to TJ? That would change the demographic makeup of the student body without having to set up the "holistic" review in a manner that disadvantages those who happen to be Asian. I could get behind something like that.

This is a great idea as long as the admissions test is one that cannot be prepared for.

But also, there's nothing about being Asian that disadvantages you in a holistic review process. It's not like admissions reviewers go "eww, this person is Asian, that's gross".

Precisely. The removal of a pre-existing systemic advantage (testing that favors years of prep and application fees that discourage folks from coming into the process late, supported by a community obsession with TJ and its prestige) is not equivalent to the introduction of a disadvantage.

TJ's artificially inflated rankings will fall because it will no longer be self-selecting for students who are excellent test-takers. But the quality of its learning community will rise sharply and quickly by weeding out many of the one-dimensional students of ALL races that are destroying it right now.

Serious question does the TJ test predict performance during the first year of school?

SAT, GRE, LSATs seem too, but does FCPS see similar results?

Since the test is primarily math, those who do best on the test are primarily those who have had the highest quality and quantity of math prep. Obviously studying and practicing for any math test will improve your score. A higher score does not necessarily mean higher intelligence or more qualified, but is probably very bluntly correlated, like the SAT.

Mmm.. Math IS the foundation of all things STEM. If someone wants to pursue STEM and does not take the time to "prep" (whatever that means to you), I'd make sure they are provided the resources to prep as opposed to water down the admission process.

There's obviously a reason why these tests have been used for decades to produce world-class engineers and scientists. Sure, they are being criticized now. This is more of an SJW trend than anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And plenty of tj students (even Asian American ones!!) did not need to prep foe that test because it wasn’t hard for kids who really love STEM and are strong students.

That's not a narrative that this person (I think it's one) wants to hear or acknowledge.. Talk about one-dimensional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scott Brabrand and the FCPS board would have been fired had they worked for Georgetown Law. They openly discriminated against one racial group.

Basically any change in policy that doesn't preserve or increase TJ's Asian population will be viewed as antiAsian. I am all for opening up TJ admissions so a broader group of students are given a opportunity to excel in STEM. I think a 3.5 with each middle school getting a certain number of slots is an excellent idea. Despite being a race neutral standard, of course it will change the racial composition of the school. I think it's great to encourage kids from all backgrounds to purse STEM careers. It can't be that FCPS can never decide to adjust TJ admissions standards in anyway that might affect the number of Asians. Given the current makeup of TJ, that's impossible outside of keeping a system that can be easily gamed by those with want to cheat, even if only a small number of people.

Would you be in favor of having the students fill out an application that does not list their name, race or gender and have them take an admissions test and then have the top 1.5% of the scorers getting admitted to TJ? That would change the demographic makeup of the student body without having to set up the "holistic" review in a manner that disadvantages those who happen to be Asian. I could get behind something like that.

This is a great idea as long as the admissions test is one that cannot be prepared for.

But also, there's nothing about being Asian that disadvantages you in a holistic review process. It's not like admissions reviewers go "eww, this person is Asian, that's gross".

Precisely. The removal of a pre-existing systemic advantage (testing that favors years of prep and application fees that discourage folks from coming into the process late, supported by a community obsession with TJ and its prestige) is not equivalent to the introduction of a disadvantage.

TJ's artificially inflated rankings will fall because it will no longer be self-selecting for students who are excellent test-takers. But the quality of its learning community will rise sharply and quickly by weeding out many of the one-dimensional students of ALL races that are destroying it right now.

Serious question does the TJ test predict performance during the first year of school?

SAT, GRE, LSATs seem too, but does FCPS see similar results?

Since the test is primarily math, those who do best on the test are primarily those who have had the highest quality and quantity of math prep. Obviously studying and practicing for any math test will improve your score. A higher score does not necessarily mean higher intelligence or more qualified, but is probably very bluntly correlated, like the SAT.

Mmm.. Math IS the foundation of all things STEM. If someone wants to pursue STEM and does not take the time to "prep" (whatever that means to you), I'd make sure they are provided the resources to prep as opposed to water down the admission process.

There's obviously a reason why these tests have been used for decades to produce world-class engineers and scientists. Sure, they are being criticized now. This is more of an SJW trend than anything else.

An admissions test has been used for decades because it is cheap and easy. People have figured out how to game the system.

[Anonymous]

The latest TJ test was first used in 2018. Not for decades. Thr math problem essay first started in 2016.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The latest TJ test was first used in 2018. Not for decades. Thr math problem essay first started in 2016.

Sure. But there were tests before then, weren't there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scott Brabrand and the FCPS board would have been fired had they worked for Georgetown Law. They openly discriminated against one racial group.

Basically any change in policy that doesn't preserve or increase TJ's Asian population will be viewed as antiAsian. I am all for opening up TJ admissions so a broader group of students are given a opportunity to excel in STEM. I think a 3.5 with each middle school getting a certain number of slots is an excellent idea. Despite being a race neutral standard, of course it will change the racial composition of the school. I think it's great to encourage kids from all backgrounds to purse STEM careers. It can't be that FCPS can never decide to adjust TJ admissions standards in anyway that might affect the number of Asians. Given the current makeup of TJ, that's impossible outside of keeping a system that can be easily gamed by those with want to cheat, even if only a small number of people.

Would you be in favor of having the students fill out an application that does not list their name, race or gender and have them take an admissions test and then have the top 1.5% of the scorers getting admitted to TJ? That would change the demographic makeup of the student body without having to set up the "holistic" review in a manner that disadvantages those who happen to be Asian. I could get behind something like that.

This is a great idea as long as the admissions test is one that cannot be prepared for.

But also, there's nothing about being Asian that disadvantages you in a holistic review process. It's not like admissions reviewers go "eww, this person is Asian, that's gross".

Precisely. The removal of a pre-existing systemic advantage (testing that favors years of prep and application fees that discourage folks from coming into the process late, supported by a community obsession with TJ and its prestige) is not equivalent to the introduction of a disadvantage.

TJ's artificially inflated rankings will fall because it will no longer be self-selecting for students who are excellent test-takers. But the quality of its learning community will rise sharply and quickly by weeding out many of the one-dimensional students of ALL races that are destroying it right now.

Authoritative statement by someone who has clearly no experience with TJ. The casual way people repeat stereotypes and lies about TJ’s students is so disheartening. The fact that most students are Asian Americans makes the statements racist.

You misspelled “over twenty years of experience” but that’s okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One-dimensional? Ever attend a TJ play or concert or iNite or techstravagana? These kids are amazing with many interests and talents.

Yes. What it is now from a performing arts perspective - if that’s the game you want to play - is nothing compared to what it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. From the perspectives of talent or volume of students interested. There is a mild comeback lately (thanks to the exceptional theatre teacher Mr. Reid), but TJ has slashed its curricular performing arts offerings in that time period to the bone because of lack of interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One-dimensional? Ever attend a TJ play or concert or iNite or techstravagana? These kids are amazing with many interests and talents.

Yes. What it is now from a performing arts perspective - if that’s the game you want to play - is nothing compared to what it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. From the perspectives of talent or volume of students interested. There is a mild comeback lately (thanks to the exceptional theatre teacher Mr. Reid), but TJ has slashed its curricular performing arts offerings in that time period to the bone because of lack of interest.

So for you, the school board, and Brabrand, this is about Make TJ Great Again. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One-dimensional? Ever attend a TJ play or concert or iNite or techstravagana? These kids are amazing with many interests and talents.

Yes. What it is now from a performing arts perspective - if that’s the game you want to play - is nothing compared to what it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. From the perspectives of talent or volume of students interested. There is a mild comeback lately (thanks to the exceptional theatre teacher Mr. Reid), but TJ has slashed its curricular performing arts offerings in that time period to the bone because of lack of interest.

Did you know that the kids and a lot of parents were upset about the performing arts budget? You don't seem to let go off the mindset that the majority of the kids at TJ are one-dimensional or not multi-dimensional enough based on some standard you have in your head and somehow that will get fixed by mixing up the population!

Look, I completely agree with the lack of URMs at TJ. Don't blame the Asian kids for it.

There should be an effort to get more URMs to attend TJ. Period. It might take the form of identifying and coaching from KG, helping with TJ prep, or whatever it takes to mirror the success of those kids that have been successful. This should be focused on the "real" URMs - US-born Blacks with generational disadvantages (not Nigerian kids), Native Americans whose land was stolen, poor kids from other communities (white, asian, etc.). This could also take the form of setting aside seats for such URMs (pick a number). But the majority of the seats should be assigned through open competition. Why do regular white kids need the protection of a backdoor admission process masquerading as a "holistic" (whatever that means)? Too chicken to fight fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scott Brabrand and the FCPS board would have been fired had they worked for Georgetown Law. They openly discriminated against one racial group.

Basically any change in policy that doesn't preserve or increase TJ's Asian population will be viewed as antiAsian. I am all for opening up TJ admissions so a broader group of students are given a opportunity to excel in STEM. I think a 3.5 with each middle school getting a certain number of slots is an excellent idea. Despite being a race neutral standard, of course it will change the racial composition of the school. I think it's great to encourage kids from all backgrounds to purse STEM careers. It can't be that FCPS can never decide to adjust TJ admissions standards in anyway that might affect the number of Asians. Given the current makeup of TJ, that's impossible outside of keeping a system that can be easily gamed by those with want to cheat, even if only a small number of people.

Would you be in favor of having the students fill out an application that does not list their name, race or gender and have them take an admissions test and then have the top 1.5% of the scorers getting admitted to TJ? That would change the demographic makeup of the student body without having to set up the "holistic" review in a manner that disadvantages those who happen to be Asian. I could get behind something like that.

This is a great idea as long as the admissions test is one that cannot be prepared for.

But also, there's nothing about being Asian that disadvantages you in a holistic review process. It's not like admissions reviewers go "eww, this person is Asian, that's gross".

Precisely. The removal of a pre-existing systemic advantage (testing that favors years of prep and application fees that discourage folks from coming into the process late, supported by a community obsession with TJ and its prestige) is not equivalent to the introduction of a disadvantage.

TJ's artificially inflated rankings will fall because it will no longer be self-selecting for students who are excellent test-takers. But the quality of its learning community will rise sharply and quickly by weeding out many of the one-dimensional students of ALL races that are destroying it right now.

Serious question does the TJ test predict performance during the first year of school?

SAT, GRE, LSATs seem too, but does FCPS see similar results?

Since the test is primarily math, those who do best on the test are primarily those who have had the highest quality and quantity of math prep. Obviously studying and practicing for any math test will improve your score. A higher score does not necessarily mean higher intelligence or more qualified, but is probably very bluntly correlated, like the SAT.

Mmm.. Math IS the foundation of all things STEM. If someone wants to pursue STEM and does not take the time to "prep" (whatever that means to you), I'd make sure they are provided the resources to prep as opposed to water down the admission process.

There's obviously a reason why these tests have been used for decades to produce world-class engineers and scientists. Sure, they are being criticized now. This is more of an SJW trend than anything else.

DP. I criticize the methods used to circumvent test security. If FCPS can't ensure that people don't have access to the test content, then they shouldn't use that test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One-dimensional? Ever attend a TJ play or concert or iNite or techstravagana? These kids are amazing with many interests and talents.

Yes. What it is now from a performing arts perspective - if that’s the game you want to play - is nothing compared to what it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. From the perspectives of talent or volume of students interested. There is a mild comeback lately (thanks to the exceptional theatre teacher Mr. Reid), but TJ has slashed its curricular performing arts offerings in that time period to the bone because of lack of interest.

Did you know that the kids and a lot of parents were upset about the performing arts budget? You don't seem to let go off the mindset that the majority of the kids at TJ are one-dimensional or not multi-dimensional enough based on some standard you have in your head and somehow that will get fixed by mixing up the population!

Look, I completely agree with the lack of URMs at TJ. Don't blame the Asian kids for it.

There should be an effort to get more URMs to attend TJ. Period. It might take the form of identifying and coaching from KG, helping with TJ prep, or whatever it takes to mirror the success of those kids that have been successful. This should be focused on the "real" URMs - US-born Blacks with generational disadvantages (not Nigerian kids), Native Americans whose land was stolen, poor kids from other communities (white, asian, etc.). This could also take the form of setting aside seats for such URMs (pick a number). But the majority of the seats should be assigned through open competition. Why do regular white kids need the protection of a backdoor admission process masquerading as a "holistic" (whatever that means)? Too chicken to fight fair?

You basically are arguing for an unconstitutional quota system over a race neutral system that sets a 3.5 GPA to make STEM opportunities available to more than the top 2 percent of kids? This is a public school system, they can decide to expand opportunities to a broader group of students. Also, kids born in America to Nigerian parents aren't "Nigerian kids," they are American kids. And, no, you can't just pick a number of URM slots Also, it's not a matter of being "too chicken to fight fair," it's a matter of believing that more students than the top 2 percent can handle and benefit from the STEM opportunities provided by TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

I can't speak fully for the local Asian-American community, but I believe they feel they are discriminated against in many aspects of American society and that STEM has been an area where, if their children receive a strong educational foundation, they will be able to compete on a level playing field and succeed professionally as adults. From their perspective, the admissions process that has been in place for years was fair and largely objective, and they believe it is anti-Asian sentiment that led a White Superintendent and a majority-White School Board to label TJ, with its majority Asian population, "toxic" and effect changes that clearly would have the effect of reducing, and likely were designed to reduce, the number and percentage of Asian students at the school.

Obviously, some think the community is "over-invested" in TJ, but if that's your view you should also ask why admission to TJ was so important to other communities that they demanded a change in the process.

I have to agree with this.

Other communities demanded a change in the process because every community sees the importance of STEM and access to the excellent STEM education/facilities provided by TJ was dependent on a test that many thought was being gamed by those in the know and with the financial resources to circumvent the test security. Note the new admissions standards don't have any quotas based on race and remove the issues surrounding the test. Also, getting rid of the test levels the playing field for some Asian kids whose parents don't have the resources to game the system, so don't assume this is bad for all Asians. I don't know who will prevail in this lawsuit, but I hope at the end of it, whatever system is left standing doesn't disadvantage lower SES students whose parents don't have the financial resources to pay for outside prep, etc.

Then they need to drop the “experience factors”

[Anonymous]

Nothing is wrong with studying for a test, do you think they just randomly give tests in school without students to prepare? No, so stfu

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

Exactly - if $1000-a-pop test prep agencies are cropping up around your admissions process, it's pretty reasonable to move away from that.

*$4-5000 a pop

Wow!

+1

What a sham!

If this was even remotely true fcps should pay for the poors to attend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If TJ is 70% African American, it will be celebrated by everyone.
TJ is 70% Asian American, so they must be prepping and cheating.

The truth would be that is it were 70% aa there would be cheating and fraud lol look at pg